Looks like we have been unsuccessful to eradicate influenza, curious why anyone would think we can eradicate covid. The video seems to suggest at the end that we need to vaccinate our way to no more variants. Highly doubt that’s an option.
I just don’t want anyone going into mandatory vaccines thinking the wrong assumptions.
If you get vaccinated, know that you still must wear a mask, the pandemic is not over, new variants will still happen, and you will still get covid and still spread it. My bet is in the next 5 years everyone here will have had covid. Doctors estimate 70 percent of school kids will get covid this winter if we don’t lockdown, that’s how fast it will spread. It’s not a question of if you will get covid, it is when.
Plan for worst case scenario because we have been lied to many times through the pandemic. Let’s not go into mandatory vaccines thinking it will make a difference.
Looks like we have been unsuccessful to eradicate influenza, curious why anyone would think we can eradicate covid. The video seems to suggest at the end that we need to vaccinate our way to no more variants. Highly doubt that’s an option.
I just don’t want anyone going into mandatory vaccines thinking the wrong assumptions.
If you get vaccinated, know that you still must wear a mask, the pandemic is not over, new variants will still happen, and you will still get covid and still spread it. My bet is in the next 5 years everyone here will have had covid. Doctors estimate 70 percent of school kids will get covid this winter if we don’t lockdown, that’s how fast it will spread. It’s not a question of if you will get covid, it is when.
Plan for worst case scenario because we have been lied to many times through the pandemic. Let’s not go into mandatory vaccines thinking it will make a difference.
AirFrame wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:22 am
Shouldn't all this be posted in the tinfoil hat forum (whoops, I mean the *Covid* forum)?
The Air Canada sub-forum is an extension of the COVID-19 forum.
With that said, it is ridiculous that the government would mandate private company's employees who are not working with customers to be fully vaccinated. The vaccine does not stop people from getting sick or spreading a disease... all it does it provide the body with the ability to fight off a virus sooner resulting in less severe symptoms and a shorter duration of illness.
Arnie Pye wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:15 am
You should have a choice. Take the shot and come to work. Don't take the shot but provide the rest of the crew with a negative PCR test prior to the start of work each day. That way I know you're not going to give me or any member of my crew COVID which could be brought home to someone's elderly parents or young children. Pilots are cheap bastards. I can't see anyone paying $200/day to go to work.
I don't want my children (or yours for that matter) to be one of the 7 that die from COVID. I don't want my parents (or yours) to be one of the thousands over the age of 70 that die of this disease. The prevention is simple.
The majority of Canadians support science and vaccines. It's time to stop enabling a vocal minority. Retire, quit, get fired. I don't care. Get off my seniority list and stay home. There are still plenty of other people willing to come to work who have the shots.
With that kind of narrative you would fit perfectly in 1941 Germania... It started the same, except the virus was those people with the yellow star on their arm.
dialdriver wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:51 pm
Awesome! Now I don't have to sit next to some anti-vaxxer twit going on about his rights without regard for mine while he spits his covid all over the cockpit.
I am pro-vaccine and I am leaning toward agreeing with the mandate, but I feel it necessary to correct this misconception.
Vaccines do not prevent you from getting sick. By definition, all they do is allow your body to learn how to create an immune response BEFORE one gets sick so that when they are infected, your body is spending less time trying to figure out what's happening and how to deal with it and more time dealing with it. The effect is that the illness is shorter in duration and less intense.
tl;dr: Vaccines do not prevent you from becoming sick or being contagious, but if you do get sick, you will be less sick and contagious for a shorter overall period of time.
Is that what your doctor said or you read that somewhere? In fact that is correct how the vaccine WAS suppose to react. But this specific one is not really protective as you wanted it to be.
The part that you doctor and government won't say that many are dying from this experimental, not yet full approved jab... But you will say it's conspiracy theory I guess. Well check out official sites like VAERS (US) and the EUDRAVIGILANCE (EU) and stats on their sites. US is over 10,000 deaths while EU reported over 20,000 so far only published for up to July. Those numbers are approx only 10% of actual numbers as it is customery to under report. Not mine words, official narrative for many side-effects reported by doctors.
Now, you don't have to read any of that, but I did, as it genuinely concerns me. I want this shit to end for all of us and our children and to go back to normal... Somehow that old narrative "two more weeks" is going to slip into 2022 the way it is going.
Why doEs it seem like the Government is solely focused on vaccination? What about rapid testing? There is currently 15 minute rapid nasal swabs out there. There are companies working on 15 minute rapid oral tests too.
I thought the whole point of vaccinations was to keep our fragile health system from being overrun by huge spikes in extremely sick people requiring intensive care.
Is there any evidence that vaccinating the population does not cause this ? IOW has vaccinating a large amount of the population diminished the ICU count for those that are vaccinated ? If the 4th wave is a non-issue for most that are vaccinated doesn’t it make sense to continue efforts to protect another overrun ?
As for singling the federally regulated employees - isn’t this just a signal that provincially regulated and private firms take up the public health guidance (regarding vaxing) to help prevent hospitals getting huge spikes in un~vaxed people requiring care ?
dialdriver wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:51 pm
Awesome! Now I don't have to sit next to some anti-vaxxer twit going on about his rights without regard for mine while he spits his covid all over the cockpit.
I am pro-vaccine and I am leaning toward agreeing with the mandate, but I feel it necessary to correct this misconception.
Vaccines do not prevent you from getting sick. By definition, all they do is allow your body to learn how to create an immune response BEFORE one gets sick so that when they are infected, your body is spending less time trying to figure out what's happening and how to deal with it and more time dealing with it. The effect is that the illness is shorter in duration and less intense.
tl;dr: Vaccines do not prevent you from becoming sick or being contagious, but if you do get sick, you will be less sick and contagious for a shorter overall period of time.
Is that what your doctor said or you read that somewhere? In fact that is correct how the vaccine WAS suppose to react. But this specific one is not really protective as you wanted it to be.
The part that you doctor and government won't say that many are dying from this experimental, not yet full approved jab... But you will say it's conspiracy theory I guess. Well check out official sites like VAERS (US) and the EUDRAVIGILANCE (EU) and stats on their sites. US is over 10,000 deaths while EU reported over 20,000 so far only published for up to July. Those numbers are approx only 10% of actual numbers as it is customery to under report. Not mine words, official narrative for many side-effects reported by doctors.
Now, you don't have to read any of that, but I did, as it genuinely concerns me. I want this shit to end for all of us and our children and to go back to normal... Somehow that old narrative "two more weeks" is going to slip into 2022 the way it is going.
I know I'm not supposed to say things that would be construed as bullying, but your response is so fucking stupid that it's really difficult to be polite.
altiplano wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:03 am
I think it is irrespective of education or specialty, some people simply can collect information and analyze something, putting it together in way that leads to them to understand the illogicallity of it. Meanwhile most of the population are satisfied just accepting and following he dominant paradigm they are fed by politicians, big pharma, unelected technocrats, and mainstream media.
The lack of logic in policy decisions has been explained here at length and all I see is a doubling down with more illogic in response.
That's disturbing. Gaslighting, illogic, and false narratives are being sold to and accepted by the majority. They've used waves of fear and threat to break us down and divide us. We are also seeing widespread censorship, cancellation, deplatforming, and ruin of anyone that opposes their narrative.
The unwitting, unquestioning masses just go on...
Ah so you’re just smarter than everyone else. Ok Mr. Dunning.
Exactly. The Dunning Kruger effect is so glaring in all of these posts it’s nauseating. Totally embarrassing.
Imagine a gardener telling you how to manage your flight deck.
Only in a world so devoid of challenges would someone with no expertise declare themselves more knowledgeable than the literal experts.
Life is too easy for too many people in the country.
I've absolutely considered the possibility that I am wrong in my analysis and interpretation of the various data points, scientifically, politically, socially, historically... but it turned out that I was wrong about that.
Counterpoint wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:46 am
I thought the whole point of vaccinations was to keep our fragile health system from being overrun by huge spikes in extremely sick people requiring intensive care.
Is there any evidence that vaccinating the population does not cause this ? IOW has vaccinating a large amount of the population diminished the ICU count for those that are vaccinated ? If the 4th wave is a non-issue for most that are vaccinated doesn’t it make sense to continue efforts to protect another overrun ?
I think we're much better off to let it run it's course. With these numbers you would think eventually those holding out on vaccinations will cave as they realize that the probability of them dying or killing some one close to them is exponentially higher without the vaccine.
I feel for those that suffer collateral damage, I really do. I can't imagine being a health care worker busting your ass trying to save people and then those who couldn't be bothered to spend half an hour on two occasions to protect themselves and others are screaming at you for being a pawn in the great reset. Makes for great stories when I visit with my nurse friends though lol...
Counterpoint wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:46 am
I thought the whole point of vaccinations was to keep our fragile health system from being overrun by huge spikes in extremely sick people requiring intensive care.
Is there any evidence that vaccinating the population does not cause this ? IOW has vaccinating a large amount of the population diminished the ICU count for those that are vaccinated ? If the 4th wave is a non-issue for most that are vaccinated doesn’t it make sense to continue efforts to protect another overrun ?
Keep in mind that the majority of Ontarians are fully vaccinated.
And if we account for population size of each group, the numbers grow more telling. Let's compare what the actual numbers are vs what they would be if the total number of cases were spread among the population evenly.
furloughedAC wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:42 pm
I think we're much better off to let it run it's course. With these numbers you would think eventually those holding out on vaccinations will cave as they realize that the probability of them dying or killing some one close to them is exponentially higher without the vaccine.
I feel for those that suffer collateral damage, I really do.
Let it run it's course?
Just itching to scratch some names off the seniority list, eh?
Counterpoint wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:46 am
I thought the whole point of vaccinations was to keep our fragile health system from being overrun by huge spikes in extremely sick people requiring intensive care.
Is there any evidence that vaccinating the population does not cause this ? IOW has vaccinating a large amount of the population diminished the ICU count for those that are vaccinated ? If the 4th wave is a non-issue for most that are vaccinated doesn’t it make sense to continue efforts to protect another overrun ?
Keep in mind that the majority of Ontarians are fully vaccinated.
And if we account for population size of each group, the numbers grow more telling. Let's compare what the actual numbers are vs what they would be if the total number of cases were spread among the population evenly.
@#$!, I'm not even going to continue with August 13 because the numbers are already showing their point.
Iceland has a huge vaxed population but is currently in a spike of the delta variant. If Iceland was 100% vaxed and the delta spread, then by your comparison all infections would be in fully vaxed people. Looking at the Ontario numbers shows that less ICU beds are taken up by those fully vaxed
For a more complete look apply the same percentages of those three numbers but for the ICU. Those ICU patients are overwhelmingly non-vaxed (as a percentage of the baseline) and I think the push from public heath leadership is to stop the spikes in hospitals as a total. The baseline comparison isn’t the groups, hospitals treat all patients. And that is the challenge to stop the hospitals from being overrun.
Inverted2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:04 pm
Some of you guys are making out to be like the Ebola virus or something. Relax. Take the vax if you want and carry on with your lives.
If it was Ebola, there would still be people calling it the common cold as they shit themselves to death.
The risk to Canadians of catching Ebola in Canada slim to none. Comparing Ebola to COVID is pointless when it comes to protecting our fragile health care system.
If you no interested in following public health vaccine guidance, that remains your option for now. If you federally regulated employee, you may lose that choice if you want to remain flying for money. There will be challenges of course, but the trend is beginning to be set.
JetSetter87 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:18 pm
Meanwhile NZ goes for HARD lockdown for a SINGLE case......I'm done with this world...Elon Musk hook up a ride to Mars...
The amount of naïve people who think that making it mandatory for employees and passengers will be THE travel restriction and the way out of lockdowns going forward is alarming.
Look, I willingly went at the first possible time to get both my doses as everyone should, however, the goalposts keep moving.4
We WILL have more draconian restrictions slapped down on us. Legault is having another freak-out in Quebec, Ford will soon follow suit and eventually it'll trickle out to wishy washy Kenney. So then what? We make it a condition of working when even after all that we still are faced with further blanket restrictions that do us no good?
I think the UK full well knew that things were never really going to go better and that's why they went with their approach in July.
As I said in another thread, sorry but I think 2022 will be more sitting in our basements with nothing to do but posting on here while our industry crumbles and goalposts are again shifted.
QKZXKV wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:19 am
The amount of naïve people who think that making it mandatory for employees and passengers will be THE travel restriction and the way out of lockdowns going forward is alarming.
Look, I willingly went at the first possible time to get both my doses as everyone should, however, the goalposts keep moving.4
We WILL have more draconian restrictions slapped down on us. Legault is having another freak-out in Quebec, Ford will soon follow suit and eventually it'll trickle out to wishy washy Kenney. So then what? We make it a condition of working when even after all that we still are faced with further blanket restrictions that do us no good?
I think the UK full well knew that things were never really going to go better and that's why they went with their approach in July.
As I said in another thread, sorry but I think 2022 will be more sitting in our basements with nothing to do but posting on here while our industry crumbles and goalposts are again shifted.
Well said! At least you see what's going on.
For those of you confused, check out the worldofmeters stats for Israel.
Counterpoint wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:46 am
I thought the whole point of vaccinations was to keep our fragile health system from being overrun by huge spikes in extremely sick people requiring intensive care.
Is there any evidence that vaccinating the population does not cause this ? IOW has vaccinating a large amount of the population diminished the ICU count for those that are vaccinated ? If the 4th wave is a non-issue for most that are vaccinated doesn’t it make sense to continue efforts to protect another overrun ?
Keep in mind that the majority of Ontarians are fully vaccinated.
And if we account for population size of each group, the numbers grow more telling. Let's compare what the actual numbers are vs what they would be if the total number of cases were spread among the population evenly.
@#$!, I'm not even going to continue with August 13 because the numbers are already showing their point.
Vaxxed are also likely engaging more socially, and thus exposing themselves to higher risks of getting infected. The vaccines are both a blessing and a curse - it helps protect the vaxxed, but it now allows them to also spread Delta amongst the non-vaxxed more incidiously.
My barber said they are not vaxxed, cause 'it was developed too quickly..'. Meanwhile I just got back from one of the hottest COVID infected U.S states a week prior. Sort of felt bad, but then realized that was their choice - to work in close contact with clients and potentially expose themselves to COVID unvaccinated.
Hopefully we can put all the misinformation and political rhetoric aside and just squash this virus to a point where it is just a cold.
