Mandatory Vaccines for Everyone

[palebird]

Blah blah blah..you must be an expert. You fit the current definition.

[Vaticinator]

The issue for most is not the direct fear of death from COVID, but the overcrowding of the hospitals from those who are sick, clogging up resources for people who need "elective" medical care.

Fair point. I haven't seen any actual data beyond anecdotal news stories that suggests we're at that point, but maybe we are. I'll concede the point. But as I've already pointed out, our system was already rife with very avoidable stressors long before covid, and as of yet there have not been any moves towards mandating simple healthy lifestyle choices that would permanently reduce strain on the system. In fact, our system is built on the fact that people are free to make unhealthy choices, and most do. Why should a virus that targets the sick and the old be any different?

And why is our government only pursuing the vaccines as an answer to this problem? Why are they sticking to this paradigm that says that covid can be eradicated, when all evidence indicates otherwise. They are trotting out the same old impotent tactics again and again. They are failing us in a huge way by refusing to pivot in the face of the evidence. Why are they not investing in infrastructure to make rapid tests free and available? Why are they not investing in tactics and infrastructure to protect the most vulnerable segments of the population? Why are they not investing in increasing the current health care infrastructure so that when they finally do come to terms with the permanence of covid, our system can operate without being overwhelmed? Our leaders should be ashamed at what terrible "leadership" they are displaying. They are doing the bare minimum required to give the appearance of dealing with the problem, when in reality they are putting in a lazy effort with their "nobody moves, nobody gets hurt" mentality and making public scapegoats out of the unvaccinated.

[Bingo Fuel]

Sure. I'll respond to this. I don't know much about other provinces, but at least for Ontario:

And why is our government only pursuing the vaccines as an answer to this problem?

There are lots of treatment options currently in clinical trials.
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/ ... rials.html

Why are they not investing in infrastructure to make rapid tests free and available?

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/get-free-rapid-tests

Why are they not investing in tactics and infrastructure to protect the most vulnerable segments of the population?

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1000 ... -residents

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/6061 ... g-covid-19

Why are they not investing in increasing the current health care infrastructure so that when they finally do come to terms with the permanence of covid, our system can operate without being overwhelmed?

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1000 ... nd-repairs

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-to-cr ... -1.5688483

Now I'm no fan of Doug Ford, but I hope this will show that he's at least tried to do many of the things you've suggested. Much of it is too little, too late. I certainly don't plan on voting for him next year, because our provincial government should be doing even more, but to say they're doing nothing is disingenuous.

EDIT: For example, probably should have done something before having to lay off 97 nurses last fall.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/ontar ... -1.5117270

Even with all these mandates, mitigations, and vaccinations, it is still not enough. Here is what the Ontario Science Table has to say, from a report published yesterday:

The critical care system does not currently have capacity to accommodate a surge as it did during waves 2 and 3 due to worsening staffing shortages, healthcare worker burnout, and health system recovery efforts. Public health measures to mitigate influxes of critically ill patients are needed.

Full report here:
https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/science ... -pandemic/

[cdnavater]

The issue for most is not the direct fear of death from COVID, but the overcrowding of the hospitals from those who are sick, clogging up resources for people who need "elective" medical care.

Fair point. I haven't seen any actual data beyond anecdotal news stories that suggests we're at that point, but maybe we are. I'll concede the point. But as I've already pointed out, our system was already rife with very avoidable stressors long before covid, and as of yet there have not been any moves towards mandating simple healthy lifestyle choices that would permanently reduce strain on the system. In fact, our system is built on the fact that people are free to make unhealthy choices, and most do. Why should a virus that targets the sick and the old be any different?

And why is our government only pursuing the vaccines as an answer to this problem? Why are they sticking to this paradigm that says that covid can be eradicated, when all evidence indicates otherwise. They are trotting out the same old impotent tactics again and again. They are failing us in a huge way by refusing to pivot in the face of the evidence. Why are they not investing in infrastructure to make rapid tests free and available? Why are they not investing in tactics and infrastructure to protect the most vulnerable segments of the population? Why are they not investing in increasing the current health care infrastructure so that when they finally do come to terms with the permanence of covid, our system can operate without being overwhelmed? Our leaders should be ashamed at what terrible "leadership" they are displaying. They are doing the bare minimum required to give the appearance of dealing with the problem, when in reality they are putting in a lazy effort with their "nobody moves, nobody gets hurt" mentality and making public scapegoats out of the unvaccinated.

https://www.cma.ca/news-releases-and-st ... ce-use-new

“Among its findings is an estimate that more than 4,000 people died between August and December 2020 as a result of delayed or cancelled health-care services from hospitals dealing with COVID-19 patients.”

[TG]

I have zero time to dig that out and you know it.
Although I'm pretty sure I'm right that mandates ultimately limited the amount of deaths or seriously sicks no matter the age.

How can you be "pretty sure" you're correct about anything if you don't take the time to examine the data? You're not even attempting to hide your biases. People won't accept that. Unwillingness to evaluate your position in the face of data indicates a lack of critical thinking. And fair enough, it's human nature to operate that way, but if you're proposing restricting people's opportunities or forcing them to be injected with medications, you need to do much, much better than "pretty sure" gut feelings and opinions based on pure emotion.

I'll save you the 5 second internet search:
https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid ... cases.html

when this pandemic ends

Cases are on the rise again, in spite of mandates, masks, lockdowns, and the 75% vaccination rate we were told would lead to herd immunity. We're no closer to an end than we were before vaccines. We need to accept that this risk is likely with us to stay, and get back to normal with a new plan that protects the vulnerable and let's those willing to accept that risk get on with life.

How can I be pretty sure? I said it why!
But you conveniently forgot to include that while quoting me (Talking about biases) To throw your "superior thinking"

Otherwise nothing of lockdowns, wearing masks and all that sh!t would have happened which was pretty much worldwide by the way.

It's just putting 2 and 2 together....

[Vaticinator]

Sure. I'll respond to this. I don't know much about other provinces, but at least for Ontario:

There are lots of treatment options currently in clinical trials.
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/ ... rials.html

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/get-free-rapid-tests

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1000 ... -residents

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/6061 ... g-covid-19

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1000 ... nd-repairs

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-to-cr ... -1.5688483

Now I'm no fan of Doug Ford, but I hope this will show that he's at least tried to do many of the things you've suggested. Much of it is too little, too late. I certainly don't plan on voting for him next year, because our provincial government should be doing even more, but to say they're doing nothing is disingenuous.

EDIT: For example, probably should have done something before having to lay off 97 nurses last fall.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/ontar ... -1.5117270

Even with all these mandates, mitigations, and vaccinations, it is still not enough. Here is what the Ontario Science Table has to say, from a report published yesterday:

The critical care system does not currently have capacity to accommodate a surge as it did during waves 2 and 3 due to worsening staffing shortages, healthcare worker burnout, and health system recovery efforts. Public health measures to mitigate influxes of critically ill patients are needed.

Full report here:
https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/science ... -pandemic/

Thanks for digging all that up. Very interesting. It seems like Doug Ford is actually taking action finally and hopefully all those announced measures come to fruition for the people of Ontario. We should be so lucky where I live.

My critique of the government was directed more at the federal level. (Apologies for not being clear on that.) When you read the summary of what the feds are doing (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... id-19.html) it sure seems like an awful lot of feathers and no chicken. I'm not a Trudeau hater, but in my opinion, this situation has revealed him to be a dithering weakling at a time when we needed a decisive man of action.

[Bingo Fuel]

My critique of the government was directed more at the federal level. (Apologies for not being clear on that.)

Precisely, aside from the ongoing clinical trials, everything else you mentioned is provincial jurisdiction. Especially health care.

The federal government can transfer funds to provinces and ask them nicely to do it, but ultimately it is the provincial government's job to implement it.

[ReserveTank]

Who said that any Covid vaccin would be 100% effective against a new variant?

Does the science recommend getting the booster now, or should I wait till 2022 for the Moderna omniunicorn variant booster? Or should I get a booster now and the unicorn booster in 4 months? Or will the omniunicorn shot be two doses. So booster now, then in 4 months new vaccine first dose, then 28 days and get the second dose?

Just get the new IV drip. Then you can have that effective juice in your body 24/7.

You know that will be a trend on IG. Duck face, thick glasses, IV in the soy-fed arm.

[Vaticinator]

https://www.cma.ca/news-releases-and-st ... ce-use-new

“Among its findings is an estimate that more than 4,000 people died between August and December 2020 as a result of delayed or cancelled health-care services from hospitals dealing with COVID-19 patients.”

That would be quite tragic, if it were accurate. But for starters, I can't actually find that direct quote anywhere in the linked site, or the subsequently linked report. In fact, if you run a search for the phrase "as a result" on either site, you get zero incidences on the above link, and only two in the actual report, neither of which are in the sections discussing "excess deaths." This report doesn't really pass the sniff test for me, when I dig into it further. There are a number of very problematic red flags here. First, there is no transparency on the purpose or methodology, no definitions of any of the terms they use, no explanation of how numbers were arrived at or how any of the data was collected. This is just speculation on my part, but it seems to read as though a firm was hired to write this report to bolster an existing position. Aside from that though, with specific regards to the Excess Deaths portion, they are arriving at this number by coming up with a forecast projection of how many deaths were expected versus an "estimate" (not even real hard data) of actual deaths. So this report in no way actually tracked how many people died directly as a result of lack of access to hospital care due to ICUs full of covid patients. Essentially, they forecasted that y number of people would die in a certain time frame and then estimated the number of actual deaths (x) and are calling x-y = excess deaths. And while they try very hard to imply the cause of excess deaths as being indirectly covid related, because they didn't actually track the real cause of the effect, they can't say what actually caused those deaths and in fact, admit that at least some of those deaths were directly due to covid. How many? We'll never know as there is no effort to differentiate. Maybe all of them, it's anyone's guess. Some quotes to illustrate that point (text in bold by me for emphasis):

While there may be several drivers of these excess deaths, delayed or missed care due to shutdowns of services
and lack of sufficient capacity in overburdened health systems may be a contributing factor.

The excess deaths include deaths with a direct connection to the pandemic (i.e., people who died after contracting
COVID-19) as well as deaths with an indirect connection to the pandemic (i.e., people who died because the care
they needed was delayed or missed, because they were more hesitant than usual to seek care, because they were
affected by the increased incidence of mental health disorders or, substance use, or because they may have
experienced a deterioration in another determinant of health during the pandemic).

The number of deaths in Canada remained higher than expected from spring 2020 into winter 2021.
The number of excess deaths peaked alongside the pandemic waves; however, there were periods
where the volume of excess deaths persisted above the volume of COVID-19 deaths, suggesting that
either indirect pandemic-related causes or alternative causes led to a spike in deaths.

Note: Excess deaths may not exclusively be due to pandemic-related issues. For example, car accidents,
shootings, natural disasters and so on may also lead to higher-than-expected mortality.

So essentially, they took a guess at how many people would die. More people died than they expected. By their own admission, those excess deaths could be from covid itself. Or it could be from someone getting in a car accident. There is no effort to dissect that data. Basically, you could put any conceivable manner of death on a dartboard and fire away, but they would appreciate it if you would please believe that it's all because our health care system is too swamped to help people. This section of the report is really just trash that doesn't actually present any useful information at all. It's a "your guess is as good as mine" scenario framed in a way to get people to guess a certain, pre-determined way. Which is a shame, because the burden on the health care system is, in my opinion, the only argument that is compelling at all for people getting so upset about other people's personal business. The only thing it says with certainty is that more people died than they expected. And in a pandemic where a virus targets old people. Weird. Which reminds me of one last quote:

a higher share of excess deaths was reported for the elderly (aged 85 years and older).

[palebird]

The genuine idiocy of the majority of the population is plain to see. And no, Bob, this does not have a happy ending. Next up..smallpox. And guess what. If you are younger than about 50 then you will be in serious trouble once smallpox gets hold of you. If anybody ever bothered to read up a little they would find that the people running this show are quite smug and transparent. The playbook is in plain view. It is just that the majority are suckers. Good luck.

[palebird]

And for all you Covid vaxxers out there:
Stop arguing with them on their terms, and instead directly attack their “reality.” When they start jabbering about the virus, the variants, the “vaccines,” and all the other Covid cult-speak, do not get sucked into their narrative. Do not respond as if they were rational. Respond as if they were talking about “Xenu,” “body thetans,” “Helter Skelter,” or any other cultoid nonsense, because that it is exactly what it is. Same goes for their rules and restrictions, the “face coverings,” the “social distancing,” and so on. Stop arguing against them on the grounds that they don’t work. Of course they don’t work, but that is not the point (and arguing that way sucks you into their “reality”). Oppose them because of what they are, a collection of bizarre compliance rituals performed to cement allegiance to the cult and create a general atmosphere of “deadly pandemic.

[Bingo Fuel]

And for all you Covid vaxxers out there:
Stop arguing with them on their terms, and instead directly attack their “reality.”

Cue an extended game of "I'm rubber and you're glue".

Both sides reject the reality of the other.

Of course there will be division, because nobody can even agree on what is real, and what is a threat. If you don't agree a threat is real, of course any mitigations will seem unreasonable.

Attacking the other side will only cause them to dig in, and reinforce their beliefs.

[cdnavater]

https://www.cma.ca/news-releases-and-st ... ce-use-new

“Among its findings is an estimate that more than 4,000 people died between August and December 2020 as a result of delayed or cancelled health-care services from hospitals dealing with COVID-19 patients.”

That would be quite tragic, if it were accurate. But for starters, I can't actually find that direct quote anywhere in the linked site, or the subsequently linked report. In fact, if you run a search for the phrase "as a result" on either site, you get zero incidences on the above link, and only two in the actual report, neither of which are in the sections discussing "excess deaths." This report doesn't really pass the sniff test for me, when I dig into it further. There are a number of very problematic red flags here. First, there is no transparency on the purpose or methodology, no definitions of any of the terms they use, no explanation of how numbers were arrived at or how any of the data was collected. This is just speculation on my part, but it seems to read as though a firm was hired to write this report to bolster an existing position. Aside from that though, with specific regards to the Excess Deaths portion, they are arriving at this number by coming up with a forecast projection of how many deaths were expected versus an "estimate" (not even real hard data) of actual deaths. So this report in no way actually tracked how many people died directly as a result of lack of access to hospital care due to ICUs full of covid patients. Essentially, they forecasted that y number of people would die in a certain time frame and then estimated the number of actual deaths (x) and are calling x-y = excess deaths. And while they try very hard to imply the cause of excess deaths as being indirectly covid related, because they didn't actually track the real cause of the effect, they can't say what actually caused those deaths and in fact, admit that at least some of those deaths were directly due to covid. How many? We'll never know as there is no effort to differentiate. Maybe all of them, it's anyone's guess. Some quotes to illustrate that point (text in bold by me for emphasis):

While there may be several drivers of these excess deaths, delayed or missed care due to shutdowns of services
and lack of sufficient capacity in overburdened health systems may be a contributing factor.

The excess deaths include deaths with a direct connection to the pandemic (i.e., people who died after contracting
COVID-19) as well as deaths with an indirect connection to the pandemic (i.e., people who died because the care
they needed was delayed or missed, because they were more hesitant than usual to seek care, because they were
affected by the increased incidence of mental health disorders or, substance use, or because they may have
experienced a deterioration in another determinant of health during the pandemic).

The number of deaths in Canada remained higher than expected from spring 2020 into winter 2021.
The number of excess deaths peaked alongside the pandemic waves; however, there were periods
where the volume of excess deaths persisted above the volume of COVID-19 deaths, suggesting that
either indirect pandemic-related causes or alternative causes led to a spike in deaths.

Note: Excess deaths may not exclusively be due to pandemic-related issues. For example, car accidents,
shootings, natural disasters and so on may also lead to higher-than-expected mortality.

So essentially, they took a guess at how many people would die. More people died than they expected. By their own admission, those excess deaths could be from covid itself. Or it could be from someone getting in a car accident. There is no effort to dissect that data. Basically, you could put any conceivable manner of death on a dartboard and fire away, but they would appreciate it if you would please believe that it's all because our health care system is too swamped to help people. This section of the report is really just trash that doesn't actually present any useful information at all. It's a "your guess is as good as mine" scenario framed in a way to get people to guess a certain, pre-determined way. Which is a shame, because the burden on the health care system is, in my opinion, the only argument that is compelling at all for people getting so upset about other people's personal business. The only thing it says with certainty is that more people died than they expected. And in a pandemic where a virus targets old people. Weird. Which reminds me of one last quote:

a higher share of excess deaths was reported for the elderly (aged 85 years and older).

Edit: I responded about the non existent quote before I read the entirety of your post, after that I believe we read different studies, same link. I can most certainly see how they can draw a direct line of postponing care to excess death.
I’m fortunate as my usual screening was delayed by more than a year, when they did schedule it they found a new growth in the area that is being monitored. This delay could have meant my cancer had returned and progressed to the point of being untreatable or needing a stronger treatment. This being said, they scheduled me for an urgent follow up and it had not grown further in that period, not cancer yet, fortunate. Other’s “may” not have been. Also, in the last two years, I have not had an in person visit with my CancerCare specialist, just phone calls.


I wasn’t quite sure what happened, it appears I quoted a separate article however the link above does in fact mention the 4000 excess deaths.
The internet is an amazing thing, I pasted the entire quote and it brought me to the other article I was reading that day.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8413681/covi ... hs-action/
The broader impacts of COVID-19
The CMA report, prepared in partnership with Deloitte, detailed the pandemic’s broader impact on society.

Among its findings is an estimate that more than 4,000 people died between August and December 2020 as a result of delayed or cancelled health-care services from hospitals dealing with COVID-19 patients.

Throughout the pandemic’s waves in Canada, provinces have experienced surges in hospital capacity, which have led to non-essential operations shifting to the back-burner. For example, since August, Alberta Health Services said more than 15,000 patients had surgeries cancelled or postponed as the province fought a surge in new COVID infections

[Transition9er2]

Ok so I actually opened this up to read this article.

How retarded this is. They said kids would have to homeschool for the lockdown, then they changed their minds and schools will be open

Sounds like a Canadian mock down. Are the vaccinated people locking down too? Must be nice, doing your part and then being told to lockdown … all the more reason to avoid a vaccine, you will get treated like a sheep among the other sheep.

First off, using derogatory terms to describe your opinion of something or someone is not acceptable.

Second, you have still not addressed the fact that Australia is not Austria and that they are over 18 hours apart by direct flight.

I am happy that I will not have to spend any time sitting next to you in an airplane.

Says the guy who’s not a pilot but loves acting like one on an aviation message board.

Pretty sure you’re not free of posting things here that are “unacceptable” sir.

[CYERCaptainPooping]

My EA friend says teachers are being told to take their things home for Christmas break… it’s beginning to look a lot like last year

How effective is the vaccine again? Why are they getting ready to close schools and implement the same restrictions we had a year ago with zero vaccinated? is it because omniunicorn? Why are they recommending boosters of the same potions if it’s not effective against the new variant?

Ah what we’re we talking about a year ago… a v shaped recovery, no maybe a u shaped recovery… probably just no recovery… pull out while you can!

[pelmet]

Are the vaccinated people locking down too?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/02/europe/g ... index.html

Looks like another country is locking down the unvaccinated only.

[Inverted2]

I just got back from a week in beautiful Florida. Didn’t wear a mask for a full 7 days. Went into hundreds of stores and restaurants. Got a free PCR test and came home with no issues at all. I got so used to the BS in Canada that I forgot what normal was. Life is pretty much normal there. A few employees wear masks and some older people and that is fine but it was nice to have a vacation from it.

Wish they’d open up to Canadian pilots. Talked to a Spirit airlines captain who has been there 4 years and makes $220 USD/hr.

[pelmet]

I just got back from a week in beautiful Florida. Didn’t wear a mask for a full 7 days. Went into hundreds of stores and restaurants. Got a free PCR test and came home with no issues at all. I got so used to the BS in Canada that I forgot what normal was. Life is pretty much normal there. A few employees wear masks and some older people and that is fine but it was nice to have a vacation from it.

Wish they’d open up to Canadian pilots. Talked to a Spirit airlines captain who has been there 4 years and makes $220 USD/hr.

Meanwhile in Michigan, one of the many northern states where people are indoors a lot more due to the cold........

"Covid-19 patients at this hospital are dying 'at a rate we've never seen die before' -- and it's taking a toll on health care workers
By Miguel Marquez and Holly Yan,

Nurse Katie Sefton never thought Covid-19 could get this bad -- and certainly not this late in the pandemic.

Katie Sefton said she's now seeing younger patients die from Covid-19.© CNN Katie Sefton said she's now seeing younger patients die from Covid-19.
"I was really hoping that we'd (all) get vaccinated and things would be back to normal," said Sefton, an assistant manager at Sparrow Hospital in Lansing, Michigan.

But this week Michigan had more patients hospitalized for Covid-19 than ever before. Covid-19 hospitalizations jumped 88% in the past month, according to the Michigan Health & Hospital Association.

"We have more patients than we've ever had at any point, and we're seeing more people die at a rate we've never seen die before," said Jim Dover, president and CEO of Sparrow Health System.

"Since January, we've had about 289 deaths; 75% are unvaccinated people," Dover said. "And the very few (vaccinated people) who passed away all were more than 6 months out from their shot. So we've not had a single person who has had a booster shot die from Covid."

Among the new Covid-19 victims, Sefton said she's noticed a disturbing trend.

"We're seeing a lot of younger people. And I think that is a bit challenging," said Sefton, a 20-year nursing veteran.

She recalls helping the family of a young adult say goodbye to their loved one.

"It was an awful night," she said. "That was one of the days I went home and just cried."

'We haven't peaked yet'
It's not just Michigan that's facing an arduous winter with Covid-19. Nationwide, Covid-19 hospitalizations have increased 40% compared to a month ago, according to data from the US Department of Health and Human Services.

This is the first holiday season with the relentless spread of the Delta variant -- a strain far more contagious than those Americans faced last winter.

"We keep talking about how we haven't peaked yet," Sefton said.

Health experts say the best protection against Delta is to get vaccinated and boosted. But as of Thursday, only about 64.3% of eligible Americans had been fully vaccinated, and less than a third of those eligible for boosters have gotten one.

Sparrow Hospital nurse Danielle Williams said the vast majority of her Covid-19 patients are not vaccinated -- and had no idea they could get pummeled so hard by Covid-19.

"Before they walked in the door, they had a normal life. They were healthy people. They were out celebrating Thanksgiving," Williams said. "And now they're here, with a mask on their face, teary eyed, staring at me, asking me if they're going to live or not."

'The next few weeks look hard'
Dover said he's saddened but not surprised that his state is getting walloped with Covid-19.

"Michigan is not one of the highest vaccination states in the nation. So it continues to have variant after variant grow and expand across the state," he said.

"The next few weeks look hard. We're over 100% capacity right now," Dover said.

"Most hospitals and health systems in the state of Michigan have gone to code-red triage, which means they won't accept transfers. And as we go into the holidays, if the current growth rate that we're at today, we would expect to see 200 in-patient Covid patients by the end of the month -- on a daily basis."

And that would mean "absolutely stretching us to the breaking point," Dover said.

"We've already discontinued in-patient elective surgeries," he said. "In order to create capacity, we took our post-anesthesia recovery care unit and converted it into another critical care unit."

'There's a lot of frustration'
Nurse Leah Rasch is exhausted. She's worked with Covid-19 patients since the beginning of the pandemic and was stunned to see so many people still unvaccinated enter the Covid unit.

"I did not think we'd be here. I truly thought that people would be vaccinated," the Sparrow Hospital nurse said.

"I don't remember the last time we did not have a full Covid floor."

The relentless onslaught of Covid-19 patients has impacted Rasch's own health.

"There's a lot of frustration," she said. "The other day, I had my first panic attack ... I drove to work and I couldn't get out of the car."

'We need everybody to get vaccinated'
Dover said many people have asked how they can support health care workers.

"If you really want to support your staff, and you really want to support health care heroes, get vaccinated," he said. "It's not political. We need everybody to get vaccinated."

He's also urging those who previously had Covid-19 to get vaccinated, as some people can get reinfected.

"My daughter's a good example. She had Covid twice before she was eligible for a vaccine," Dover said.

"She still got a vaccine because we know that if you don't get the vaccine, just merely having contracted Covid is not enough to protect you from getting it again. And I know that from personal experience."

And those who are unvaccinated shouldn't underestimate the pandemic right now, Dover said.

"The problem is, it's not over yet. I don't know if people realize just how critical it still is," he said.

"But they do realize it when they come into the ER, and they have to wait three days for a bed. And at that point, they realize it."

[imjustlurking]

Ok so I actually opened this up to read this article.

How retarded this is. They said kids would have to homeschool for the lockdown, then they changed their minds and schools will be open

Sounds like a Canadian mock down. Are the vaccinated people locking down too? Must be nice, doing your part and then being told to lockdown … all the more reason to avoid a vaccine, you will get treated like a sheep among the other sheep.

First off, using derogatory terms to describe your opinion of something or someone is not acceptable.

Second, you have still not addressed the fact that Australia is not Austria and that they are over 18 hours apart by direct flight.

I am happy that I will not have to spend any time sitting next to you in an airplane.

Says the guy who’s not a pilot but loves acting like one on an aviation message board.

Pretty sure you’re not free of posting things here that are “unacceptable” sir.

I don't care if you think I'm a pilot or not.

And instead of saying that your "pretty sure" that I've done something wrong, why not actually accuse me of it and find your proof. I'll be waiting.