https://youtu.be/PlIRzyW-azM

Oldcommercialpilot · Post by **Oldcommercialpilot** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:19 am

Who are you talking to? Seriously??

What exactly are you hoping to accomplish here?

Find a more appropriate place to ponder the legalities of our seniority list ahead of a negotiation with an outside body for integration of positions on said seniority list.

Curiousflyer · Post by **Curiousflyer** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 3:08 pm

ALPApolicy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:39 am We don’t have our seniority list, the WSW/WJA PSL. At least not one available to WSW/WJA pilots.

Yes you do, it’s your seniority list. Everyone can see it. Do you think AC has separate seniority lists for Rouge pilots? How about super seniority Jazz pilots that were offered a seniority number but delayed there start date at Air Canada?

There is one seniority list at WestJet, just because you’re struggling to comprehend the language (although intent has been crystal clear from the beginning), nuances of who can work at which company when, bumping provisions, bargaining units, and common employer, doesn’t mean that that there are multiple seniority lists.

What’s your end game with all this? You want to sue but haven’t been harmed. Are you suggesting OTS have been harmed? I guarantee they were all aware where they stood on the seniority list when they were hired, no harm there either.

If you want to exclude Encore pilots from the merger list you may need to do the legwork yourself on figuring out which ones are which. Just like an Air Canada pilot would have a heck of a time figuring out which pilots worked at Rouge, or came in with super seniority, or worked at Canadian, or Air Ontario, or Air Nova, etc, etc.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:57 pm

I would want a seniority list for the dues paying members only at my airline. People that work at a seperate company with seperate representation, that don't vote on contracts, that don't work there should not be on that list.

Curiousflyer · Post by **Curiousflyer** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:55 pm

ALPApolicy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:27 pm
The seniority list, called the Pilot Seniority List, as defined in the CBA, is a document maintained by the company and contains only the pilots in the WestJet/Swoop bargaining unit, and for pilots hired since January 1, 2019, has pilots ordered by date of hire (at WestJet or Swoop) for all pilots, including pilots flowing from Encore.

This is why the LOA was signed. For reference to your seniority please refer to the LOA.

ALPApolicy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:27 pm If you are so sure of the situation, can you tell me where in the PTA it says the PSL, which contains only the WSW/WJA pilots by date of hire, is extinguished?

Section 2.01 and Section 2.02 of the LOA. That's what "combined" means. If you combine eggs and flour, you no longer have eggs or flour, but eggs and flour.

ALPApolicy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:27 pm Can you tell me where on the PTA it says that the WSW/WJA pilots no longer use bargaining unit seniority for all position awards?

Section 2.01 and Section 2.02 of the LOA. You now have a combined seniority list.

ALPApolicy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:27 pm The Pilot TRANSFER Agreement was created for one purpose, to TRANSFER pilots. The agreement does not say anywhere that the intent was to give Encore pilots a higher position on the PSL.

That's not true according to the legal teams of WestJet Management, Encore Management, Swoop Management, WestJet ALPA, and Encore ALPA. They all agreed with the same intentions and that's exactly what is being followed. Just because you disagree with the language, and don't fully comprehend the meaning and intent of Section 2, does not mean that the parties who signed the agreement didn't understand.

The majority of the LOA deals with transfers between the companies, freezes, and downbids. That doesn't prevent Section 2 from combining the seniority lists into one list.

elite · Post by **elite** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm

Unless there is a national organization based on license numbers and with due consideration to all previous experience, seniority has to be for the individual company and bargaining unit and you have to be there to get it. Separate companies and bargaining units, separate lists.

lownslow · Post by **lownslow** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:28 am

I got here late, what does PSL stand for?

ant_321 · Post by **ant_321** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:54 am

lownslow wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:28 am I got here late, what does PSL stand for?

Pumpkin spice latte or Pakistani Super League.

Curiousflyer · Post by **Curiousflyer** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:36 am

ALPApolicy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:43 am There are 28 mentions of “PSL” in the CBA. Are you suggesting that even with no direction to do so in the PTA, we are supposed to assume that all references to PSL should be replaced with “Seniority List”?

There is direction to do so in the PTA. That's why Section 2 says a "combined" seniority list.

ALPApolicy · Post by **ALPApolicy** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:04 am

https://youtu.be/PlIRzyW-azM

GTFA · Post by **GTFA** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:28 am

System seniority as opposed to other lists such as Base, type, status, training pilot, etc. The System seniority is the master list from which all other lists are derived.

ALPApolicy · Post by **ALPApolicy** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:22 pm

https://youtu.be/PlIRzyW-azM

Loon-A-Tic · Post by **Loon-A-Tic** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:32 pm

Man are you trying to win some kind of AvCanada award for the most "new topic" postings. You've created so many now its becoming absolutley pointless trying to follow your train of thought. You have mangaged to turn your efforts into nothing but annoying and an complete nuisance.

ALPApolicy · Post by **ALPApolicy** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:42 pm

https://youtu.be/PlIRzyW-azM

Loon-A-Tic · Post by **Loon-A-Tic** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:52 pm

It means your post have reached the annoying level and then some

Loon-A-Tic · Post by **Loon-A-Tic** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:17 pm

So you expect to get a copy form those who don't have it and annoy the hell out of them in the meantime, interesting tactic

Loon-A-Tic · Post by **Loon-A-Tic** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:21 pm

ALPApolicy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:08 pm
Loon-A-Tic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:52 pm It means your post have reached the annoying level and then some
I would be much less annoying if I had a copy of the PSL mentioned above.

Has it not dawned on YOU yet that maybe, just mabe no one on the AvCanada site has it either. Given that some though while YOUR crafting t

he next "New Topic" to harasses us all with.

bob99 · Post by **bob99** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:23 pm

How many threads do you need?!

ALPApolicy · Post by **ALPApolicy** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:41 pm

bob99 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:23 pm How many threads do you need?!

I am done. I proved my point. I will delete all of my posts in this matter over the next few days as I prepare for a grievance hearing or a DFR challenge. One of those two things is happening if I don’t get a copy of the PSL.

imjustlurking · Post by **imjustlurking** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:09 pm

ALPApolicy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:41 pm
bob99 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:23 pm How many threads do you need?!
I am done. I proved my point. I will delete all of my posts in this matter over the next few days as I prepare for a grievance hearing or a DFR challenge. One of those two things is happening if I don’t get a copy of the PSL.

Only point you've proved is that you've gone off the road but still have the gas pedal floored.

ALPApolicy · Post by **ALPApolicy** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:23 pm

FlyingMonkey wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:20 am
ALPApolicy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:47 am Here is a screenshot of the cover page for the document that our Association places on the EFB. Note the titles of the various lists on the document. Where is the Company maintained PSL/WPSL specified in Section 3 of the PTA?

The first list is called "Seniority List". This erroneously titled document is the transfer list created by the PTA, and designed only to be used for transfers between companies. That makes sense because the agreement is called the Pilot TRANSFER Agreement.

From the PTA:

SENIORITY
2.01 A combined seniority list, known as the “Seniority List,” shall be created through the process provided for in Section 10, below. Once created, the Seniority List shall be used for transfers between Swoop and WestJet, and between Encore and Swoop or WestJet.
This list was never intended to be used for anything else besides transfers.

Seniority rights in the bargaining unit remain based on the PSL/WPSL.
.
.
.

IMG_0478.jpg

Nope, it’s called the seniority list not the transfer list because…wait for it…..it’s the seniority list.

That's not what the lead negotiator on the WJA MEC side believed. Here are his comments from almost three years ago.

https://youtu.be/PlIRzyW-azM