Flow through to AC

[JoeyBarton]

But Jazz folks have an Aug 29th PIT course date assigned correct?

[negative_g]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

If the 60% is reduced or placed on hold, every CA at Jazz should go get their FAA ATP and be ready for when the door cracks even wider.

I think it was you that mentioned you wouldn't get it unless having a job offer. But I don't think that will be an option for a while. Reason being, is any airline that petitions the US Government to import pilots has to show there are none available or willing to take the job. And Americans must have an ATP to do the job, so I'm sure the PERM Labour Certification (the document an airline would get from the government outlining the experience required) would have a mandatory FAA ATP as part of the requirement.

[Ash Ketchum]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

If the 60% is reduced or placed on hold, every CA at Jazz should go get their FAA ATP and be ready for when the door cracks even wider.

I think it was you that mentioned you wouldn't get it unless having a job offer. But I don't think that will be an option for a while. Reason being, is any airline that petitions the US Government to import pilots has to show there are none available or willing to take the job. And Americans must have an ATP to do the job, so I'm sure the PERM Labour Certification (the document an airline would get from the government outlining the experience required) would have a mandatory FAA ATP as part of the requirement.

Yeah I have realized I need to get the ATP after doing more research. I got the ball rolling and booked my medical yesterday. I hope other Jazz captains follow suit as morale at Jazz is at an all time low these days.

[Canadaflyer46]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

If the 60% is reduced or placed on hold, every CA at Jazz should go get their FAA ATP and be ready for when the door cracks even wider.

I think it was you that mentioned you wouldn't get it unless having a job offer. But I don't think that will be an option for a while. Reason being, is any airline that petitions the US Government to import pilots has to show there are none available or willing to take the job. And Americans must have an ATP to do the job, so I'm sure the PERM Labour Certification (the document an airline would get from the government outlining the experience required) would have a mandatory FAA ATP as part of the requirement.

Yeah I have realized I need to get the ATP after doing more research. I got the ball rolling and booked my medical yesterday. I hope other Jazz captains follow suit as morale at Jazz is at an all time low these days.

Morale can’t be that low. I watched 3 Jazz Q400s in YYC today shut an engine down on the taxi in. 32 degrees outside. I used to think Encore captains lacked common sense, not sure when the ‘money-saving above all else’ obsession caught on at Jazz.

[rigpiggy]

If you can get the apu started by all means shutdown #1. The APU puts out more air, moreso than with both engines running at idle

[Canadaflyer46]

If you can get the apu started by all means shutdown #1. The APU puts out more air, moreso than with both engines running at idle

Interesting procedure. I’d always thought with the APU bleed air on and Number 2 still running you’d be sucking engine exhaust into the cabin.

[kiaszceski]

If the 60% is reduced or placed on hold, every CA at Jazz should go get their FAA ATP and be ready for when the door cracks even wider.

I think it was you that mentioned you wouldn't get it unless having a job offer. But I don't think that will be an option for a while. Reason being, is any airline that petitions the US Government to import pilots has to show there are none available or willing to take the job. And Americans must have an ATP to do the job, so I'm sure the PERM Labour Certification (the document an airline would get from the government outlining the experience required) would have a mandatory FAA ATP as part of the requirement.

Yeah I have realized I need to get the ATP after doing more research. I got the ball rolling and booked my medical yesterday. I hope other Jazz captains follow suit as morale at Jazz is at an all time low these days.

Morale can’t be that low. I watched 3 Jazz Q400s in YYC today shut an engine down on the taxi in. 32 degrees outside. I used to think Encore captains lacked common sense, not sure when the ‘money-saving above all else’ obsession caught on at Jazz.

YYC captains are mostly senior, so most probably on the scale A.

[KenoraPilot]

If the 60% is reduced or placed on hold, every CA at Jazz should go get their FAA ATP and be ready for when the door cracks even wider.

I think it was you that mentioned you wouldn't get it unless having a job offer. But I don't think that will be an option for a while. Reason being, is any airline that petitions the US Government to import pilots has to show there are none available or willing to take the job. And Americans must have an ATP to do the job, so I'm sure the PERM Labour Certification (the document an airline would get from the government outlining the experience required) would have a mandatory FAA ATP as part of the requirement.

Yeah I have realized I need to get the ATP after doing more research. I got the ball rolling and booked my medical yesterday. I hope other Jazz captains follow suit as morale at Jazz is at an all time low these days.

Morale can’t be that low. I watched 3 Jazz Q400s in YYC today shut an engine down on the taxi in. 32 degrees outside. I used to think Encore captains lacked common sense, not sure when the ‘money-saving above all else’ obsession caught on at Jazz.

Starting APU and way better bleed air than 2 engines on the ground at ground idle and disc. 100% cooler air!

[a2btrail]

I can confirm flow to AC has started from Jazz. Regardless of the noise I have confirmed the following below over the last 10 days internally...

3 personal friends of mine here at Jazz have been offered the same AC Sept 2022 PIT Course. Offers are going out.

Each of them knew other Jazz pilots who have also been offered the same course next month.

I can confirm at least 10 Jazz pilots will be in the Sept 2022 course.

Updates to follow.

Good news for those who care about flow. Don't listen to the noise about no flow for Jazz pilots this year. I can 100% say this is NOT true come next month and onwards.

[Droho774]

We’re they offered a specific class date? When was their start date at Jazz/sky?

[rudder]

We’re they offered a specific class date? When was their start date at Jazz/sky?

Apparently there will be Jazz flow pilots this month (August). After that as many as 40 Jazz per month to year end.

AC ramping up its hiring/training to max capacity.

[kiaszceski]

We’re they offered a specific class date? When was their start date at Jazz/sky?

Apparently there will be Jazz flow pilots this month (August). After that as many as 40 Jazz per month to year end.

AC ramping up its hiring/training to max capacity.

Will 180 Jazz pilots be enough to get to the 60% mark will the company have some catch up to do in 2023 and eventually flow Jazz FO as well ?

[JoeyBarton]

At least 2 DOH 2013 at express are on the Aug PIT course.

[a2btrail]

We’re they offered a specific class date? When was their start date at Jazz/sky?

September 7th PIT. Their respective DOH's are MARCH, APRIL and MAY 2017.

Also a few late Q3/4 2015 DOH's and early 2016 DOH's in August PIT in the next few days...

[a2btrail]

Flow update:

August 29th PIT had 5-10 Jazz pilots.

Sept 7th PIT - 17 Jazz Pilots confirmed so far

Sept 26th PIT - 14 Jazz Pilots confirmed so far

[flybyyou]

Flow update:

August 29th PIT had 5-10 Jazz pilots.

Sept 12th PIT - 17 Jazz Pilots confirmed so far

Sept 26th PIT - 14 Jazz Pilots confirmed so far

at this rate pilots hired in 2022 should have their interview in 2026-2027. Jazz clearly is not the fastest route to go to AC at this time, if that's your main goal.

[negative_g]

If I was AC I'd be pretty worried about the flow agreement and the ability to keep those Jazz planes in the air. 130+ CA vacancies already, and with the flow agreement they're going to lose hundreds more over the next year. Time for Jazz pay to go up, and by association AC as well. Otherwise good luck attracting anyone from 704 with the experience to go DEC. Especially with AC taking 704 Captains direct to mainline as of late. Interesting times ahead.

[rudder]

130+ CA vacancies already, and with the flow agreement they're going to lose hundreds more over the next year.

The posted CA vacancies include the pilots forecast to leave under flow and known attrition (retirement). However, it only looks out to mid-2023.

[crystalpizza]

Anyone have an idea of how fast they're moving down the Jazz seniority list, and of a rough timeline for when an October 2018 Jazz hire could reasonably expect to get the call from AC? Accounting for pilots skipped over cause they haven't applied, can't apply due to ineligibility, etc.

[Ash Ketchum]

Anyone have an idea of how fast they're moving down the Jazz seniority list, and of a rough timeline for when an October 2018 Jazz hire could reasonably expect to get the call from AC? Accounting for pilots skipped over cause they haven't applied, can't apply due to ineligibility, etc.

I'm December 2017 DOH. Interviewed in 2019 and fell out of the pool due to COVID. Still haven't heard back for my re-interview.

[a2btrail]

Anyone have an idea of how fast they're moving down the Jazz seniority list, and of a rough timeline for when an October 2018 Jazz hire could reasonably expect to get the call from AC? Accounting for pilots skipped over cause they haven't applied, can't apply due to ineligibility, etc.

The latest pilot to be called for an interview had an October 2017 DOH. I personally have 2 friends with OCT 2017 DOH and one with a SEP 2017 DOH. All 3 completed their interviews 3+ weeks ago and it was their first time interviewing. I would say an OCT 2018 DOH could expect a call late summer to early fall Q3 of next year.. definitely before by DEC 2023 as long as AC continues hire at a good rate over the next 8 months. Wait time could be less or more. Definitely not this year. I would say anyone with a DOH of 2017 to about a Q1/2 2018 DOH can ROUGHLY expect a call before next summer. Also keep in mind the Sky Regional pilots DOH integration.

Many college and/or low time pilots hired in 2017 have been skipped has they do not have an ATPL and 2000 hrs.

Hope this gives you an idea.

[link821]

Almost don’t want to ask about ppl hired in 2022 who meet the requirements and applied..

[rudder]

Anyone have an idea of how fast they're moving down the Jazz seniority list, and of a rough timeline for when an October 2018 Jazz hire could reasonably expect to get the call from AC? Accounting for pilots skipped over cause they haven't applied, can't apply due to ineligibility, etc.

The latest pilot to be called for an interview had an October 2017 DOH. I personally have 2 friends with OCT 2017 DOH and one with a SEP 2017 DOH. All 3 completed their interviews 3+ weeks ago and it was their first time interviewing. I would say an OCT 2018 DOH could expect a call late summer to early fall Q3 of next year.. definitely before by DEC 2023 as long as AC continues hire at a good rate over the next 8 months. Wait time could be less or more. Definitely not this year. I would say anyone with a DOH of 2017 to about a Q1/2 2018 DOH can ROUGHLY expect a call before next summer. Also keep in mind the Sky Regional pilots DOH integration.

Many college and/or low time pilots hired in 2017 have been skipped has they do not have an ATPL and 2000 hrs.

Hope this gives you an idea.

If AC hires 300 in 2022 then that equate to 180 Jazz spots. If AC hires 500 in 2023 that equates to a further 300 Jazz spots. I have been told that AC’s goal for hiring is 900-1000. That equates to 540-600 Jazz spots. And that hiring is supposed to happen as quickly as the AC system can handle it.

I think that interviewing for Jazz pilots hired pre-COVID will happen at a fairly brisk pace but will not get out too far ahead of AC ratio hiring requirements. Some currently ‘unqualified’ pilots may become qualified to apply in the interim. Post-COVID Jazz hires may have a longer wait.

[a2btrail]

Almost don’t want to ask about ppl hired in 2022 who meet the requirements and applied..

I mean the wait time is slightly different now (as Rudder eluded to) than prior to covid given the same 60% annual flow rate Jazz has always had. For those being hired post covid here in 2022 I would say 2 - 2.5 years wait. To give you a picture...Just before covid AC was inviting pilots for interviews with DOH as late as March 2018 in early Q1 of 2020. Like all the other airlines in the country Jazz did not start any new hire classes between March 2020 up until mid summer of this year. Completing recalls was the first priority. For those who came to Jazz who already meet the AC hiring requirements with an interest in going to AC should know the Jazz timeline of 2 yrs give or take. Wait times are based on seniority here. Everyone knows this. If they don't that shows lack of research imo. Good news for those that have very low seniority and don't want to wait who hold an ATPL with 2000hrs they can jump ship or not come to the ship at all. As there are a plethora of options out there to try and bypass the "line" with AC hiring OTS atm as well. No different than before covid except that Jazz has an extra 290 pilots that came from Sky with their DOHs. 60% of roster here will retire at Jazz. Including the older population from Sky who never had and still have no desire for AC. We also have retirements still going too. Crazy times ahead.

To each their own. All about probabilities, experience and timing.

A CPL pilot with 250 hrs fresh out of college no PIC vs an ATPL pilot with 2000 hrs+ that desire AC will move differently in this current climate based on their stage in life and goals.

Everyone has to make their own choice.

[Transition9er2]

If I remember correctly, isn’t one of the requirements to flow over a min of 2 yrs at Jazz? Was that not on the Jazz specific job posting at AC?

Also, for what it’s worth AC has canceled/delayed the equipment bid again. Was originally discussed to be August (back to its regular 2 month interval from the June bid) then it got delayed to Sept and now it’s delayed to Oct.

Some chatter this has to do with the training depts being completely over capacity.

My guess is hiring won’t be affected, but where it gets ugly is the number of training events set to take place now.

Very interesting times ahead!