Delta Pilots vote 94.7% to strike

Random Flatulation · Post by **Random Flatulation** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:20 am

your facts may be accurate cpl-atc, but pilot salaries are not the cause of the difference in cost per seat mile. Southwest pilots are the highest paid 737 pilots in the US, and Westjet's new contract has them making the same as Air Canada for a similar aircraft size. The big salary difference between low cost and legacy likely come from the unskilled labour. This is where the unions at the legacy carriers have kept the salaries very high. Probably the biggest cost difference comes from all the other dead weight at a legacy carrier. Compare the employees per aircraft numbers and I bet you'll see a big difference.

Mig29 · Post by **Mig29** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:34 am

cyyz

Does A/C still have in house bag handlers and CSR's? Why not fire them all and outsoure to globeground or servisair or whoever is doing it now?

I'm not sure if Delta has already done that, but that's one way to go, before cutting the pilots salaries.

I know the 20/hr baggy vs the 150/hr pilot is a difference... But the planes will not fly without a pilot*, they will fly with whomever is tossing in the bags....

...do you hear yourself at all?? So, what.. just us pilot-wonders are given this gift from above to be making six figure salaries!!? If someone has spent 20-30yrs in the company, is it wrong for the company to reward the person with a descent salary, on which you can actually enjoy your life, instead of trying to meet ends on $10/hr for life! I don't think so.....An ordinary desk clerk in TC or NavCanada starts at $35K+ salary, so a guy after 20 years of braking his back lifting these bags does not deserve it??

Or should we all follow US counterparts like Southwest or even majors who give people $7-8/hr start...you heard me right! Then us pilots will feel more worth in life with a $40K salary flying B767, while CEO and managers will form the elite of the society with over payed salaries...

endless

I believe they're fighting for the right thing, because at some point all the sacrafice put in isn't worth what you get out.

What do you think your dentist, doctor or lawyer would say if they were to take a 50% pay cut? How many would scream bloody murder because all the effort they put into getting there was no longer worth it?

this is so true....like these guys didn't give enough in their life to get to where they deserve, and now some douchebag comes in as a CEO to prove him self that he can run the place even better and cuts pays even further and then rewards him self with a higher salary!! Bunch of f*cking beaurocrats and greedy jerks!!! Well, like I said before about Delta - give it to them boys - you deserve it! Too bad our boys in Canada didn't have the cojones (or their union ot be precise) to do it too...

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:43 pm

Random Flatulation wrote:your facts may be accurate cpl-atc, but pilot salaries are not the cause of the difference in cost per seat mile. Southwest pilots are the highest paid 737 pilots in the US, and Westjet's new contract has them making the same as Air Canada for a similar aircraft size. The big salary difference between low cost and legacy likely come from the unskilled labour. This is where the unions at the legacy carriers have kept the salaries very high. Probably the biggest cost difference comes from all the other dead weight at a legacy carrier. Compare the employees per aircraft numbers and I bet you'll see a big difference.

Actually, just skimmed through LH's(DD's?) thread about health care, GM, includes $5000 in the sticker price for health benefits and maybe pensions...

So the "staff" are responsible for the overhead, but it isn't in the wages, it's in the high benefits/health plans and pensions...

So, what.. just us pilot-wonders are given this gift from above to be making six figure salaries!!? If someone has spent 20-30yrs in the company, is it wrong for the company to reward the person with a descent salary, on which you can actually enjoy your life, instead of trying to meet ends on $10/hr for life! I don't think so.....

Ummm, they want to cut PILOTS wages, so the baggies will still make their $25 the AME's will still make their $25 and the pilots will soon be making $25....

So, like I said, if they want to have the company go broke, LET THEM, because they didn't need to spend 50k and X years trying to get into the airline when they could have dropped out of high school and straight into the bag handlers room and they'd be retired by now with their 30 years of service, and richer and probably with only 1 wife...

Mig29 · Post by **Mig29** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:07 pm

cyyz so since you know all, how come you missed the fact that enitre AC took cuts, including pilots??? Sales, ramp, baggage, inflight, crew sched....all took a bite, some more some less.

I say we keep a $20/hr for a baggage guy with 20+ years of service and KEEP pilots pay where they are! Because they all deserve it!!

But that wouldn't work well for CEOs and VIP, wouldn't it!?? By the way, here's little something that I read today which proves my point that those members of 'elite socitey' never get enough.

American warns of more cuts. American Airlines' new chief financial officer said the carrier needs to cut staff costs further to stay competitive. American won major concessions in 2003 after flirting with Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing, but has since insisted that further pay cuts were off the table as it sought suggestions from unions on non-wage related cost reductions and revenue increases. In the fourth quarter, the airline had higher unit costs than Continental Airlines and United Airlines and various discount carriers, but lower than some other traditional carriers. April 7, 2005 [Industry news, Air Canada]

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:34 pm

Mig29 wrote:cyyz so since you know all, how come you missed the fact that enitre AC took cuts, including pilots???

It's about Delta, the only group that is gonna get hit at the moment is/are the pilots, so it ain't like A/C because obviously they wouldn't need to cut wages by 34% for pilots if they just cut the wages 20% across the board... But they want to hit the pilots first and then the other workers... So the pilots should stand their ground....

Random Flatulation · Post by **Random Flatulation** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:28 am

cpl-atc: I'm told that Westjet's top salary for a 73 captain is 150K. AC's top A320 pay is $166/hour. Multiplied by 80 hour months = 160K. Since the A320 is a bit bigger than the 73, the pay is basically the same.

CYYZ: Westjet pilots also get medical benefits et al. As for the pension, you're right, it does cost money. I don't remember how much, but I remember reading it a few years ago and being suprised by how small of a percentage of our pay the company has needed to contribute.

I'd like to see a comparison of management pay (total compensation and cost to the company) between Westjet and AC, and number of managers per aircraft. I think you'll find a lot of dead weight there. Also a comparison of all the employee groups pay at AC vs the same group at Westjet. I bet you find that the pilot wages are not the problem.

balls · Post by **balls** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:45 pm

Random Flatulation wrote:cpl-atc: I'm told that Westjet's top salary for a 73 captain is 150K. AC's top A320 pay is $166/hour. Multiplied by 80 hour months = 160K. Since the A320 is a bit bigger than the 73, the pay is basically the same.

CYYZ: Westjet pilots also get medical benefits et al. As for the pension, you're right, it does cost money. I don't remember how much, but I remember reading it a few years ago and being suprised by how small of a percentage of our pay the company has needed to contribute.

I'd like to see a comparison of management pay (total compensation and cost to the company) between Westjet and AC, and number of managers per aircraft. I think you'll find a lot of dead weight there. Also a comparison of all the employee groups pay at AC vs the same group at Westjet. I bet you find that the pilot wages are not the problem.

NO.

You do not average 80 hours of pay time per month per year. Close but no cigarello.

Look at Pprune.

WJ pilots now make MORE than AC 320. Closer to AC 767.

All the b/s about wage cuts, most groups at AC did not take much in the end, because they did not live up to their union promises, and with snap backs are now back to par - except the pilots at AC that have and still are paying for the CCAA.

Ah yes, boo-hoo you say. The great Canadian socialism.

Spend $50-$60,000 learning how to fly, and then make the same as a new hire flight attendant. Actually, AC new hire flight attendants now make MORE than new hire pilots.

SO for all you candy assed, PC correct MFers, bend over an take it up the shufftie if you want to wrork at AC as a pilot, because you LOVE ---- flying??

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:57 pm

...do you hear yourself at all?? So, what.. just us pilot-wonders are given this gift from above to be making six figure salaries!!? If someone has spent 20-30yrs in the company, is it wrong for the company to reward the person with a descent salary, on which you can actually enjoy your life, instead of trying to meet ends on $10/hr for life! I don't think so.....An ordinary desk clerk in TC or NavCanada starts at $35K+ salary, so a guy after 20 years of braking his back lifting these bags does not deserve it??

Mig

Not to belittle ground staff but a baggage handler position should be a job, not a career. No different from flight attendants. There are some leads at AC making 80 grand a year. Sorry but when the national average salary is in the 45K area, that is an insane salary for unskilled labour. The only reason the guy has been there for 20 plus years is because he can't get a job any where else that will pay him that much.

Mig29 · Post by **Mig29** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:07 pm

I heard of guys making around 50-55K regular time, but not 80K....unless its O/T when that is possible. Btw, leads get buck or two more on the top hourly salary, which both sales/ramp/baggage is about $22.31hr....so no more than $24-25hr

Now, its sounds a lot, but it not too far off from national average of 45K as you mentioned.

The said part is that pilots at Georgian/Jazz and AC make less than then when they start...I agree...but, I also belive that some of those ramp guys dont deserve $10/hr. Guys who tow A340 around ATC's rush hour traffic in Peason from gates to hangars and drive $200 million equipment really don't deserve this....Maybe not $25/hr, but come to think of some GTAA customer service reps who wonder through the halls of T1 getting payed $25/hr to show people where the bathrooms are, I'd then go for the ramp guy who is towing that A340

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:00 am

http://thefuntimesguide.com/audio/Bud_L ... andler.mp3