Any Update On The New Contract?

[lament]

The current contract is a MMG of 85 credits. Maximum monthly block allowed is 92 credits.

The LOU would lower MMG to 75 credits. It would allow the company to choose 4 months of the year where there is no monthly cap, CARs maximums would be the only limit on the monthly blocked hours.

More money for sure. Working your bag off for summers and December also for sure.

[PeanutGallery]

Lower MMG means nothing without lower OT start and lower maximum monthly credit scheduling.

If those two things dropped along with the MMG then I bet this would be an unquestionable yes vote.

Instead this just allows them to pay less in the lulls and avoid paying overtime in the peaks.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Jesus, you guys should go get checked out immediately, you might have caught a case of ACPA.

Everyone is leaving and you take concessions for a small credit hour increase? Your union is forgetting who has the upper hand! What a joke.

I would assume that people are leaving because they see the ship going down.

[Chaxterium]

Lower MMG means nothing without lower OT start and lower maximum monthly credit scheduling.

I'm not sure I agree. If you compare the current rate with the current MMG of 85, would the pilots be making more with the new rate and new MMG? If so then that (in itself) is a win. Plus with a lower MMG it takes less effort to make extra money—and you're making that extra money at a higher hourly rate.

OT starting at 92 is a kick in the pants though.

[PeanutGallery]

Lower MMG means nothing without lower OT start and lower maximum monthly credit scheduling.

I'm not sure I agree. If you compare the current rate with the current MMG of 85, would the pilots be making more with the new rate and new MMG? If so then that (in itself) is a win. Plus with a lower MMG it takes less effort to make extra money—and you're making that extra money at a higher hourly rate.

OT starting at 92 is a kick in the pants though.

It's not more pay for less work if you're still going to be scheduled at close to 85 hours. That's why MMG means nothing when OT and max are so high.

This is just a way to pay reserve pilots who don't get called less. Before they were protected to 85, now they get 75.

(And yes we all know with the new rates at 75 you'll get more than the old rates at 85, the whole point of this thing was a pay raise, if that wasn't the case it wouldn't be a raise. You'd still earn more as a skipper at WJ)

[Chaxterium]

It's not more pay for less work if you're still going to be scheduled at close to 85 hours.

How is it not more pay? Those 85 hours are being paid at a higher rate. And if you do only work 75 hours you're still making more money than previously. More pay for less work.

This is just a way to pay reserve pilots who don't get called less. Before they were protected to 85, now they get 75.

But they are getting paid more. The 75 hours they're getting paid for is more than the 85 hours they were previously getting paid for.
With an MMG of 75 if you're blocked closed to 75, then any shifts you get called in for means you're making money. If the MMG is 85, and you're blocked at 75ish then if you get called in for a shift you're essentially working for free until you break 85.

(And yes we all know with the new rates at 75 you'll get more than the old rates at 85,

Right. So what's the issue? It's still more pay for less work. With the opportunity to start making more money more easily.

Sorry for being so dense here. It appears most people think it's a bad deal so I'm sure I'm just missing something.

[braaap Braap]

Right. So what's the issue? It's still more pay for less work. With the opportunity to start making more money more easily.

Sorry for being so dense here. It appears most people think it's a bad deal so I'm sure I'm just missing something.

Have you read through the whole LOU? The 4 periods of no limit to the number of hours blocked and no ability to make 1.5x for work on GDOs seem like the brutal concessions.

Edited for accuracy

[Chaxterium]

Right. So what's the issue? It's still more pay for less work. With the opportunity to start making more money more easily.

Sorry for being so dense here. It appears most people think it's a bad deal so I'm sure I'm just missing something.

Have you read through the whole LOU? The 4 periods of no limit to the number of hours blocked and no ability to make 1.5x seem like the brutal concessions.

Those do seem like brutal concessions for sure.

[PeanutGallery]

And working for straight time on a GDO

[Up_Then_Down]

Right. So what's the issue? It's still more pay for less work. With the opportunity to start making more money more easily.

Sorry for being so dense here. It appears most people think it's a bad deal so I'm sure I'm just missing something.

Have you read through the whole LOU? The 4 periods of no limit to the number of hours blocked and no ability to make 1.5x seem like the brutal concessions.

Have YOU read the whole LOU? OT threshold remains unchanged at 88 unless you drop trade or pickup. Under the new LOU if you are scheduled 100hrs that’s 12 hours at 1.5x. See examples in the document talking about overtime threshold.

[cdnavater]

Right. So what's the issue? It's still more pay for less work. With the opportunity to start making more money more easily.

Sorry for being so dense here. It appears most people think it's a bad deal so I'm sure I'm just missing something.

Have you read through the whole LOU? The 4 periods of no limit to the number of hours blocked and no ability to make 1.5x seem like the brutal concessions.

Have YOU read the whole LOU? OT threshold remains unchanged at 88 unless you drop trade or pickup. Under the new LOU if you are scheduled 100hrs that’s 12 hours at 1.5x. See examples in the document talking about overtime threshold.

Who cares, OT could start at 50 hours, if they have the ability to fly you to the duty limits for 4 months of the year, it won’t be February- May, it WILL be July, August, September and December. Might as well go back and fly for a 703 medevac operation if you want to work that hard!

[Flyboy736]

Have you read through the whole LOU? The 4 periods of no limit to the number of hours blocked and no ability to make 1.5x seem like the brutal concessions.

Have YOU read the whole LOU? OT threshold remains unchanged at 88 unless you drop trade or pickup. Under the new LOU if you are scheduled 100hrs that’s 12 hours at 1.5x. See examples in the document talking about overtime threshold.

Who cares, OT could start at 50 hours, if they have the ability to fly you to the duty limits for 4 months of the year, it won’t be February- May, it WILL be July, August, September and December. Might as well go back and fly for a 703 medevac operation if you want to work that hard!

As an outsider what it boils down to an underwhelming pay increase (underwhelming because it's doesn't match WestJet - Flair pilots are accepting that their hourly rate outside of new recruits is worth less) at the expense of lifestyle.

Why are you guys getting punished by working CARS limits in the summer and Xmas? Is there some sort of anti-family campaign going on internally? God forbid you work 100 hours flying with a bunch of Deadheads involved as well.

The OT going from 88 hours to 92 with a drop or trade sounds yet another hit to lifestyle- a quick trade with your buddy to get a day off or swapping a pairing with open time results in less overtime being paid out for some strange reason? Zero flexibility in lifestyle given.

Industry lagging pay (for 737 new contracts) matched with industry lagging lifestyle doesn't sound like a winning formula.

[PeanutGallery]

Today's roadshow was an absolute circus, with chaos reigning supreme and control nowhere to be found.

It's a mid contract raise. Should be an easy yes......

[CaptDukeNukem]

Today's roadshow was an absolute circus, with chaos reigning supreme and control nowhere to be found.

It's a mid contract raise. Should be an easy yes......

With serious concessions.

[cdnavater]

Today's roadshow was an absolute circus, with chaos reigning supreme and control nowhere to be found.

It's a mid contract raise. Should be an easy yes......

Some people can’t see the forest for the trees, so f it were just a mid contract raise, obviously a yes! An already deficient contract that the company abuses as it is, they want more concessions and you think yes, friggen pilots.
Maybe if you were talking about US level raises, consider a couple concessions but seriously man, give your head a shake. If you say no, worst that happens, attrition continues and they do nothing or they come back with more.

[PeanutGallery]

Apologies gentlemen my sarcasm was not very clear.

A mid contract raise should be an easy yes vote. This is so bad that many are voting no. I've voted, it's a no thank you for me.

[braaap Braap]

Right. So what's the issue? It's still more pay for less work. With the opportunity to start making more money more easily.

Sorry for being so dense here. It appears most people think it's a bad deal so I'm sure I'm just missing something.

Have you read through the whole LOU? The 4 periods of no limit to the number of hours blocked and no ability to make 1.5x seem like the brutal concessions.

Have YOU read the whole LOU? OT threshold remains unchanged at 88 unless you drop trade or pickup. Under the new LOU if you are scheduled 100hrs that’s 12 hours at 1.5x. See examples in the document talking about overtime threshold.

Good point - egg on my face. I was trying to refer to the straight time for GDO work clause. My apologies!

[Up_Then_Down]

Have you read through the whole LOU? The 4 periods of no limit to the number of hours blocked and no ability to make 1.5x seem like the brutal concessions.

Have YOU read the whole LOU? OT threshold remains unchanged at 88 unless you drop trade or pickup. Under the new LOU if you are scheduled 100hrs that’s 12 hours at 1.5x. See examples in the document talking about overtime threshold.

Good point - egg on my face. I was trying to refer to the straight time for GDO work clause. My apologies!

All good, unfortunately the LOU could have been written much better and I can understand some of the confusion some members are having. It is very important that if something about the LOU seems unreasonable, strange or unclear that a voting member seeks clarification directly from the MEC before they vote. There are many people on this forum who are not voting members and are making interpretations based on 3rd party information.

For all, please be active and respectful in the road show today and tomorrow and be sure you are getting the best information you can to make an informed vote.

Cheers!

[flyinhigh]

So what is the verdict? Is this good enough for the Flair pilot group?

[MaxAuto]

89% turnout with 64% voting in favor.

[flyinhigh]

Wow, same turn out and results as the initial dog turd contract.

[speedah]

I am curious if the number of expats drove the yes vote. If they were used and abused in the Middle East, this increase is a walk in the park for them.

[co-joe]

I am curious if the number of expats drove the yes vote. If they were used and abused in the Middle East, this increase is a walk in the park for them.

Most of the expats seemed to be leaning No on the group chats, and anyone with Union experience seemed to see right through this. Unfortunately FO pay was just so bad coming out of the CBA that I'm pretty sure they all voted for it. At this point, Flair may as well offer us 25% more money in exchange for completely cancelling all work rules of any kind and it would still pass. May as well have us come in on our days off and wash planes, shovel snow, or stand outside flipping one of those flippy spinny signs you used to see outside Dominos Pizza for free. Oh well, nothing to do now but see how it turns out.

At least it's not as bad as the dog shit sandwich Encore accepted.

[flyinhigh]

At least it's not as bad as the dog shit sandwich Encore accepted.

Mmm, I have to disagree. Encores overall contract is significantly stronger than the Flair one from the get go. Yes the last agreement doesn’t have a big enough pay bump, but it is a Q operator after all and they are all under paid.

[co-joe]

At least it's not as bad as the dog shit sandwich Encore accepted.

Mmm, I have to disagree. Encores overall contract is significantly stronger than the Flair one from the get go. Yes the last agreement doesn’t have a big enough pay bump, but it is a Q operator after all and they are all under paid.

The flow language is still weak as hell and basically says only IF the mothership needs 737 FO's, AND only IF Encore can spare the Captains. As for the pay bump, what about the concession in WSP? They gave up how much in contributions?