Bingo Fuel wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:07 am Her claim, yes. Her team has significantly reduced in size over the past 6 years under the Ford government with greater auditing and reporting requirements. She is provincial, not federal.

rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:11 am

Bingo Fuel wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:07 am Her claim, yes. Her team has significantly reduced in size over the past 6 years under the Ford government with greater auditing and reporting requirements. She is provincial, not federal.

I am simply doing the math. 5 people full time is 40 hours a week x 5.

Thats 200 hours.

There aren’t 200 hours in a week.

braaap Braap wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:34 am I would much rather have a bigger government creating quality jobs at higher income levels (where the individuals pay their share of income tax) than have more shitty minimum wage part time positions at big businesses that dodge their tax burden and continue to funnel money out of the economy to their already rich executives.

altiplano wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:48 am
By your logic we should all just be high paid government flunkies and it would be a better world.

Government jobs don't produce anything, they only take from Canadians. Governments and bureaucracy drain wealth from a country.

throwawaycorporate wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:59 am

altiplano wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:48 am
By your logic we should all just be high paid government flunkies and it would be a better world.

Government jobs don't produce anything, they only take from Canadians. Governments and bureaucracy drain wealth from a country.

Teachers, Parks Canada, Nurses, Fire, Police, Coast Guard, 911 Dispatch, Librarian, Military, the list goes on.

These are all the jobs that are supposed to afford a middle class lifestyle. These decent paying jobs mean people have extra money to inject into the private sector whether local cafes, tours, hotels, or small business trades for renovation work.

Usually I agree with what you say but this is a take I don't understand. Yes, there is bloat in the government that is frustrating, but many government jobs produce vibrant and sustainable communities.

braaap Braap wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:34 am I would much rather have a bigger government creating quality jobs at higher income levels (where the individuals pay their share of income tax) than have more shitty minimum wage part time positions at big businesses that dodge their tax burden and continue to funnel money out of the economy to their already rich executives.

khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:30 pm

throwawaycorporate wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:59 am

altiplano wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:48 am
By your logic we should all just be high paid government flunkies and it would be a better world.

Government jobs don't produce anything, they only take from Canadians. Governments and bureaucracy drain wealth from a country.

Teachers, Parks Canada, Nurses, Fire, Police, Coast Guard, 911 Dispatch, Librarian, Military, the list goes on.

These are all the jobs that are supposed to afford a middle class lifestyle. These decent paying jobs mean people have extra money to inject into the private sector whether local cafes, tours, hotels, or small business trades for renovation work.

Usually I agree with what you say but this is a take I don't understand. Yes, there is bloat in the government that is frustrating, but many government jobs produce vibrant and sustainable communities.

Maybe he should rephrase to say "federal" government jobs.

Nurses work for hospitals. Most of the rest of the list are provincial or municipal jobs.

Military aside, the federal sector "should" be the smallest per capita of government employment.

altiplano wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 5:43 pm
Of course you need some government workers, particularly in the types of services you mention there... First responders, health care, military, teachers, whatever...

But the point remains. Government workers don't produce any wealth. They are fully paid for by taxing everyone else or incurring debt on future generations.

digits_ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:54 pm I'm curious. Which government employees would you want to get rid off? Which government services should get axed according to you?

It's easy to make such claims in the heat of the moment, but if you think about it from a more realistic point of view, I find it quite hard to come up with some significant cuts.

altiplano wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 5:43 pm

khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:30 pm

throwawaycorporate wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:59 am

Teachers, Parks Canada, Nurses, Fire, Police, Coast Guard, 911 Dispatch, Librarian, Military, the list goes on.

These are all the jobs that are supposed to afford a middle class lifestyle. These decent paying jobs mean people have extra money to inject into the private sector whether local cafes, tours, hotels, or small business trades for renovation work.

Usually I agree with what you say but this is a take I don't understand. Yes, there is bloat in the government that is frustrating, but many government jobs produce vibrant and sustainable communities.

Maybe he should rephrase to say "federal" government jobs.

Nurses work for hospitals. Most of the rest of the list are provincial or municipal jobs.

Military aside, the federal sector "should" be the smallest per capita of government employment.

Of course you need some government workers, particularly in the types of services you mention there... First responders, health care, military, teachers, whatever...

But the point remains. Government workers don't produce any wealth. They are fully paid for by taxing everyone else or incurring debt on future generations.

Grow the government out costs society, it leaches off of society.

By the same respect those high paid government employees spend and spread around their earnings, we could just add easily have kept the money in the hands of people with lower taxes and they could be spending that money.

No money or societal wealth is created by having more high paid government employees, in fact it is just the opposite. It also drives inflation and debt which is a hidden tax on us all.

Rob Peter to pay Paul so that Paul can spend it in the economy, but it turns out that Peter could have have spent it just fine on his own.

JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:51 pm

digits_ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:54 pm I'm curious. Which government employees would you want to get rid off? Which government services should get axed according to you?

It's easy to make such claims in the heat of the moment, but if you think about it from a more realistic point of view, I find it quite hard to come up with some significant cuts.

I would axe 90 percent of government spending. Taxes would go flat to 10 percent for everyone.

Military, police, fire, maybe a few more services but that’s basically it.

Privatization of everything else. Government would be 1/50th the size. When I think about it from a realistic view, there is so much to cut. Maybe people are afraid they can’t live if they don’t hand over 50 percent of their money to government.

digits_ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 8:34 pm

JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:51 pm

digits_ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:54 pm I'm curious. Which government employees would you want to get rid off? Which government services should get axed according to you?

It's easy to make such claims in the heat of the moment, but if you think about it from a more realistic point of view, I find it quite hard to come up with some significant cuts.

I would axe 90 percent of government spending. Taxes would go flat to 10 percent for everyone.

Military, police, fire, maybe a few more services but that’s basically it.

Privatization of everything else. Government would be 1/50th the size. When I think about it from a realistic view, there is so much to cut. Maybe people are afraid they can’t live if they don’t hand over 50 percent of their money to government.

Congratulations, you have no roads to drive on, no property records as proof you own your house, no food banks, no hospitals, no tax fraud investigation, actually nobody even collecting taxes, no public building maintenance, no libraries, no social fraud investigations, no driving license system, no passports for travelling, ...

The government still needs to (should ?) pay for all that, even if it's contracted out to the private sector.

It's an illusion the private sector can always do things cheaper. Just more money skimmed off the top.

Once you start to be really specific, the list of those "few other services" you need grows very quickly.

Handover wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:34 am

digits_ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 8:34 pm

JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:51 pm

I would axe 90 percent of government spending. Taxes would go flat to 10 percent for everyone.

Military, police, fire, maybe a few more services but that’s basically it.

Privatization of everything else. Government would be 1/50th the size. When I think about it from a realistic view, there is so much to cut. Maybe people are afraid they can’t live if they don’t hand over 50 percent of their money to government.

Congratulations, you have no roads to drive on, no property records as proof you own your house, no food banks, no hospitals, no tax fraud investigation, actually nobody even collecting taxes, no public building maintenance, no libraries, no social fraud investigations, no driving license system, no passports for travelling, ...

The government still needs to (should ?) pay for all that, even if it's contracted out to the private sector.

It's an illusion the private sector can always do things cheaper. Just more money skimmed off the top.

Once you start to be really specific, the list of those "few other services" you need grows very quickly.

Having worked for the UK government, the US federal government, and the Canadian government, as well as one of the Big Five consulting firms, I can assure you that there are huge cost savings to be had throughout all facets of government. From administration to tools and processes, inefficiencies are widespread, and lame duck employees are also aplenty. With these experiences, it's clear that the public sector has significant opportunities to streamline operations, reduce costs, and improve service delivery.
Some off the cuff suggestions

1. Utilise AI for administrative tasks: Implement AI to handle data entry and routine processes, enhancing speed and accuracy.
2. Reform public sector unions: Introduce flexible employment contracts and incentives tied to performance to enhance productivity.
3. Introduce competition in healthcare: Allow private sector involvement to drive up quality and reduce costs through competition.
4. Leverage technology to replace certain jobs: Use robotics and AI to automate repetitive and manual tasks, reducing human error and costs.
5. Merge redundant services: Identify and consolidate overlapping government agencies to eliminate duplication and improve efficiency.
6. Implement digital transformation and e-government initiatives: Create online portals for citizen services, reducing reliance on physical paperwork and offices.
7. Apply lean management practices: Use lean principles to identify waste and streamline processes, boosting productivity across departments.
8. Encourage remote and flexible work: Expand remote work options to decrease office space requirements and associated costs.
9. Outsource non-core functions: Contract private firms for non-essential services like IT support and facility maintenance to reduce overhead.
10. Use advanced analytics for decision making: Employ data analytics to guide policy decisions, improve resource allocation, and detect fraud.
11. Implement shared services models: Centralise functions like HR, IT, and procurement to achieve economies of scale and reduce costs.
12. Develop centralised data repositories: Establish unified databases to prevent duplication and streamline access to information.
13. Establish performance-based employee incentives: Implement a system where employee rewards are tied to performance metrics.
14. Reduce bureaucratic red tape: Simplify regulations and processes to accelerate decision-making and implementation.
15. Introduce outcome-based budgeting: Link budget allocations to measurable program outcomes and efficiencies.
16. Optimise procurement processes: Revamp procurement to focus on cost-effectiveness and timeliness.
17. Consolidate IT infrastructure: Unify IT systems to lower maintenance costs and enhance security.
18. Use cloud computing to reduce IT costs: Transition data storage and computing operations to the cloud to save on physical infrastructure.
19. Implement energy-efficient practices in government buildings: Upgrade facilities to be more energy-efficient, cutting utility costs.
20. Develop a streamlined approval process for projects: Simplify project approval processes to reduce delays and bureaucratic bottlenecks.
21. Promote inter-departmental collaboration: Encourage sharing of resources and information across departments to improve efficiency.
22. Standardise government software platforms: Use common software to reduce training requirements and support costs.
23. Encourage citizen feedback and participation: Gather input from citizens to identify areas for improvement and increase transparency.
24. Reduce the federal workforce by 40%: Cut 120,000 jobs to lower payroll costs significantly and realign resources.

- Reducing the Federal Workforce by 40%: Estimated savings of CAD 12 billion annually.
- Additional Streamlining Measures: Combined with other measures, estimated total savings of CAD 15-25 billion annually.

Total Estimated Annual Savings: CAD 27-37 billion.

- These savings represent approximately 5.4-7.4% of the 2023 federal budget of CAD 496.9 billion.
- If the savings were directly passed on to taxpayers, the average Canadian household could see annual tax relief of CAD 1,800 to 2,500.

With around 25% of the Canadian workforce employed by the government, these streamlining measures could have significant implications. The potential cost savings are substantial, but these efforts must be balanced against the need to maintain quality public services and manage the impact on employment. A streamlined, efficient government can provide better services to Canadians while easing the tax burden.

CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:41 am Cut 120000 jobs. That’s all I gathered from your post.


Yea awesome…………….

I already feel bad for those people. Some need these jobs to survive.

CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:41 am Cut 120000 jobs. That’s all I gathered from your post.


Yea awesome…………….

I already feel bad for those people. Some need these jobs to survive.

Handover wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:34 am

digits_ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 8:34 pm

JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:51 pm

I would axe 90 percent of government spending. Taxes would go flat to 10 percent for everyone.

Military, police, fire, maybe a few more services but that’s basically it.

Privatization of everything else. Government would be 1/50th the size. When I think about it from a realistic view, there is so much to cut. Maybe people are afraid they can’t live if they don’t hand over 50 percent of their money to government.

Congratulations, you have no roads to drive on, no property records as proof you own your house, no food banks, no hospitals, no tax fraud investigation, actually nobody even collecting taxes, no public building maintenance, no libraries, no social fraud investigations, no driving license system, no passports for travelling, ...

The government still needs to (should ?) pay for all that, even if it's contracted out to the private sector.

It's an illusion the private sector can always do things cheaper. Just more money skimmed off the top.

Once you start to be really specific, the list of those "few other services" you need grows very quickly.

Having worked for the UK government, the US federal government, and the Canadian government, as well as one of the Big Five consulting firms, I can assure you that there are huge cost savings to be had throughout all facets of government. From administration to tools and processes, inefficiencies are widespread, and lame duck employees are also aplenty. With these experiences, it's clear that the public sector has significant opportunities to streamline operations, reduce costs, and improve service delivery.
Some off the cuff suggestions

1. Utilise AI for administrative tasks: Implement AI to handle data entry and routine processes, enhancing speed and accuracy.
2. Reform public sector unions: Introduce flexible employment contracts and incentives tied to performance to enhance productivity.
3. Introduce competition in healthcare: Allow private sector involvement to drive up quality and reduce costs through competition.
4. Leverage technology to replace certain jobs: Use robotics and AI to automate repetitive and manual tasks, reducing human error and costs.
5. Merge redundant services: Identify and consolidate overlapping government agencies to eliminate duplication and improve efficiency.
6. Implement digital transformation and e-government initiatives: Create online portals for citizen services, reducing reliance on physical paperwork and offices.
7. Apply lean management practices: Use lean principles to identify waste and streamline processes, boosting productivity across departments.
8. Encourage remote and flexible work: Expand remote work options to decrease office space requirements and associated costs.
9. Outsource non-core functions: Contract private firms for non-essential services like IT support and facility maintenance to reduce overhead.
10. Use advanced analytics for decision making: Employ data analytics to guide policy decisions, improve resource allocation, and detect fraud.
11. Implement shared services models: Centralise functions like HR, IT, and procurement to achieve economies of scale and reduce costs.
12. Develop centralised data repositories: Establish unified databases to prevent duplication and streamline access to information.
13. Establish performance-based employee incentives: Implement a system where employee rewards are tied to performance metrics.
14. Reduce bureaucratic red tape: Simplify regulations and processes to accelerate decision-making and implementation.
15. Introduce outcome-based budgeting: Link budget allocations to measurable program outcomes and efficiencies.
16. Optimise procurement processes: Revamp procurement to focus on cost-effectiveness and timeliness.
17. Consolidate IT infrastructure: Unify IT systems to lower maintenance costs and enhance security.
18. Use cloud computing to reduce IT costs: Transition data storage and computing operations to the cloud to save on physical infrastructure.
19. Implement energy-efficient practices in government buildings: Upgrade facilities to be more energy-efficient, cutting utility costs.
20. Develop a streamlined approval process for projects: Simplify project approval processes to reduce delays and bureaucratic bottlenecks.
21. Promote inter-departmental collaboration: Encourage sharing of resources and information across departments to improve efficiency.
22. Standardise government software platforms: Use common software to reduce training requirements and support costs.
23. Encourage citizen feedback and participation: Gather input from citizens to identify areas for improvement and increase transparency.
24. Reduce the federal workforce by 40%: Cut 120,000 jobs to lower payroll costs significantly and realign resources.

- Reducing the Federal Workforce by 40%: Estimated savings of CAD 12 billion annually.
- Additional Streamlining Measures: Combined with other measures, estimated total savings of CAD 15-25 billion annually.

Total Estimated Annual Savings: CAD 27-37 billion.

- These savings represent approximately 5.4-7.4% of the 2023 federal budget of CAD 496.9 billion.
- If the savings were directly passed on to taxpayers, the average Canadian household could see annual tax relief of CAD 1,800 to 2,500.

With around 25% of the Canadian workforce employed by the government, these streamlining measures could have significant implications. The potential cost savings are substantial, but these efforts must be balanced against the need to maintain quality public services and manage the impact on employment. A streamlined, efficient government can provide better services to Canadians while easing the tax burden.

digits_ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 8:34 pm

JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:51 pm

digits_ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:54 pm I'm curious. Which government employees would you want to get rid off? Which government services should get axed according to you?

It's easy to make such claims in the heat of the moment, but if you think about it from a more realistic point of view, I find it quite hard to come up with some significant cuts.

I would axe 90 percent of government spending. Taxes would go flat to 10 percent for everyone.

Military, police, fire, maybe a few more services but that’s basically it.

Privatization of everything else. Government would be 1/50th the size. When I think about it from a realistic view, there is so much to cut. Maybe people are afraid they can’t live if they don’t hand over 50 percent of their money to government.

Congratulations, you have no roads to drive on, no property records as proof you own your house, no food banks, no hospitals, no tax fraud investigation, actually nobody even collecting taxes, no public building maintenance, no libraries, no social fraud investigations, no driving license system, no passports for travelling, ...

The government still needs to (should ?) pay for all that, even if it's contracted out to the private sector.

It's an illusion the private sector can always do things cheaper. Just more money skimmed off the top.

Once you start to be really specific, the list of those "few other services" you need grows very quickly.

digits_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:35 am

Handover wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:34 am

digits_ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 8:34 pm

Congratulations, you have no roads to drive on, no property records as proof you own your house, no food banks, no hospitals, no tax fraud investigation, actually nobody even collecting taxes, no public building maintenance, no libraries, no social fraud investigations, no driving license system, no passports for travelling, ...

The government still needs to (should ?) pay for all that, even if it's contracted out to the private sector.

It's an illusion the private sector can always do things cheaper. Just more money skimmed off the top.

Once you start to be really specific, the list of those "few other services" you need grows very quickly.

Having worked for the UK government, the US federal government, and the Canadian government, as well as one of the Big Five consulting firms, I can assure you that there are huge cost savings to be had throughout all facets of government. From administration to tools and processes, inefficiencies are widespread, and lame duck employees are also aplenty. With these experiences, it's clear that the public sector has significant opportunities to streamline operations, reduce costs, and improve service delivery.
Some off the cuff suggestions

1. Utilise AI for administrative tasks: Implement AI to handle data entry and routine processes, enhancing speed and accuracy.
2. Reform public sector unions: Introduce flexible employment contracts and incentives tied to performance to enhance productivity.
3. Introduce competition in healthcare: Allow private sector involvement to drive up quality and reduce costs through competition.
4. Leverage technology to replace certain jobs: Use robotics and AI to automate repetitive and manual tasks, reducing human error and costs.
5. Merge redundant services: Identify and consolidate overlapping government agencies to eliminate duplication and improve efficiency.
6. Implement digital transformation and e-government initiatives: Create online portals for citizen services, reducing reliance on physical paperwork and offices.
7. Apply lean management practices: Use lean principles to identify waste and streamline processes, boosting productivity across departments.
8. Encourage remote and flexible work: Expand remote work options to decrease office space requirements and associated costs.
9. Outsource non-core functions: Contract private firms for non-essential services like IT support and facility maintenance to reduce overhead.
10. Use advanced analytics for decision making: Employ data analytics to guide policy decisions, improve resource allocation, and detect fraud.
11. Implement shared services models: Centralise functions like HR, IT, and procurement to achieve economies of scale and reduce costs.
12. Develop centralised data repositories: Establish unified databases to prevent duplication and streamline access to information.
13. Establish performance-based employee incentives: Implement a system where employee rewards are tied to performance metrics.
14. Reduce bureaucratic red tape: Simplify regulations and processes to accelerate decision-making and implementation.
15. Introduce outcome-based budgeting: Link budget allocations to measurable program outcomes and efficiencies.
16. Optimise procurement processes: Revamp procurement to focus on cost-effectiveness and timeliness.
17. Consolidate IT infrastructure: Unify IT systems to lower maintenance costs and enhance security.
18. Use cloud computing to reduce IT costs: Transition data storage and computing operations to the cloud to save on physical infrastructure.
19. Implement energy-efficient practices in government buildings: Upgrade facilities to be more energy-efficient, cutting utility costs.
20. Develop a streamlined approval process for projects: Simplify project approval processes to reduce delays and bureaucratic bottlenecks.
21. Promote inter-departmental collaboration: Encourage sharing of resources and information across departments to improve efficiency.
22. Standardise government software platforms: Use common software to reduce training requirements and support costs.
23. Encourage citizen feedback and participation: Gather input from citizens to identify areas for improvement and increase transparency.
24. Reduce the federal workforce by 40%: Cut 120,000 jobs to lower payroll costs significantly and realign resources.

- Reducing the Federal Workforce by 40%: Estimated savings of CAD 12 billion annually.
- Additional Streamlining Measures: Combined with other measures, estimated total savings of CAD 15-25 billion annually.

Total Estimated Annual Savings: CAD 27-37 billion.

- These savings represent approximately 5.4-7.4% of the 2023 federal budget of CAD 496.9 billion.
- If the savings were directly passed on to taxpayers, the average Canadian household could see annual tax relief of CAD 1,800 to 2,500.

With around 25% of the Canadian workforce employed by the government, these streamlining measures could have significant implications. The potential cost savings are substantial, but these efforts must be balanced against the need to maintain quality public services and manage the impact on employment. A streamlined, efficient government can provide better services to Canadians while easing the tax burden.

Using AI for increased accuracy is just laughable. That's not how AI works.
You can take any big private company and you'll be able to make most of those suggestions. Is the government inefficient? Probably. But so are a lot of big private companies. The idea that private companies are somehow efficient well oiled machines is just plain wrong. Once you start working with 20+ people, you'll have internal politics, time consuming meetings, layers of management and thus inefficiencies.

Private healthcare? Please don't. Best example are eye doctors and dentists. Ridiculously overpriced.

Storing government data 'in the cloud'? You want government data to be stored on someone else's computer? It's not necessarily cheaper either. Cloud computing has its place, but is not magic. They are still computers that need to be monitored and managed.