Hence the reason to practice them at a safe altitude so one day you won't be caught, as the old saying goes, "Running out of airspeed, altitude and ideas all at the same time."Hedley wrote:Spins occur when you are low and slow, either on final approach or after takeoff. At those altitudes, if a fully-developed spin is allowed to develop, there is no altitude to recover.
Aerobatic Flight Maneuver
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Single-Engine IFR
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Aerobatic Manoeuvres
If the good Lord had intended man to fly, He wouldn't have given him railroads.
You can find that in TP16747 -- Guidance Notes - Stall/Spin Awareness. The document has been revised. The current version is 2 (Oct 2003). That reference is now found on page 18. The document was mainly written to provide examples and to encourage the use of scenario based training when teaching "stalls from practical fligt scenarios". You will likely find it very useful to provide to new instructor candidates. At the same time, many current instructors will also find it quite useful too.mcrit wrote:Single Engine: Thanks for digging out that old reference, it sure cleared up some stuff, I couldn't prevail on you for a TP number? (I think that it would make great reading for the instructor candidates that I train)
TP13747 Guidance Notes -- Stall/Spin Awareness
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Cat Driver
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I may be risking been seen as an as.hole here but I would like to make a comment about these training exercises.
There is no argument that spin awareness, entry and recovery needs to be taught to famaliarlize the student with the dangers of inadvertant spin entry.
However what I would really like to see is pilots who have been taught how to taxi using power to control speed instead of brakes.
Also pilots who fly the climbout using outside reference for pitch control instead of looking outside, inside at the airspeed, outside, inside and climbing like a rocking horse.
Once they get to level off altitude I would be delighted if they understood how to level off...Nose down to the level attitude...wait for desired airspeed ....then set power and fine trim the thing so they don't have to chase altitude.
Those faults are in my opinion far more important than spin entry and recovery
Teach them how to control attitude correctly and they won't accidently enter a spin.
Cat
There is no argument that spin awareness, entry and recovery needs to be taught to famaliarlize the student with the dangers of inadvertant spin entry.
However what I would really like to see is pilots who have been taught how to taxi using power to control speed instead of brakes.
Also pilots who fly the climbout using outside reference for pitch control instead of looking outside, inside at the airspeed, outside, inside and climbing like a rocking horse.
Once they get to level off altitude I would be delighted if they understood how to level off...Nose down to the level attitude...wait for desired airspeed ....then set power and fine trim the thing so they don't have to chase altitude.
Those faults are in my opinion far more important than spin entry and recovery
Teach them how to control attitude correctly and they won't accidently enter a spin.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Clearly, whoever at Transport wrote this has little experience with, or knowledge of spins.TP13747 Guidance Notes -- Stall/Spin Awareness
On page 9, a "fully developed spin" is defined as "stablized" when in fact fully developed spins are often quite oscillatory in nature.
Even worse is this: "Recovery from a flat spin may be extremely difficult, and, in some cases, impossible".
What male bovine excrement. An inverted flat spin is one of the safest and easiest to recover from, and is a staple of the airshow pilot (eg airstart, first maneuver) because of this.
It doesn't even bother to describe how a flat spin is entered or exited, probably because the person writing it didn't know. Some spins are impossible to flatten!
I hope whoever reads this crap doesn't remember any of it.
Yes, but being that you are an engineer I'm sure you've heard of a 'stabilized oscillation', ie one that has a constant period. Hence, a spin that oscillates with a constant period is stabilized.On page 9, a "fully developed spin" is defined as "stablized" when in fact fully developed spins are often quite oscillatory in nature.
Damn right, if your CG is too far aft."Recovery from a flat spin may be extremely difficult, and, in some cases, impossible".
I have a similar sentiment, but I'd apply it to a certain contributor to this thread.I hope whoever reads this crap doesn't remember any of it.
Cat: Good points on common errors, and most instructors do try to nip them in the bud. However, alot of pilots go a long time without a dual flight, and then tend to pick up bad habits all on their lonesome.
mcrit: you clearly don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.
How many flat spins have you performed? Upright? Inverted?
How many accelerated spins have you performed? Upright? Inverted?
TP13747 is incomplete, incorrect and totally misleading. If you had recognized spin expert like Rich Stowell or Bill Finagin read it, they would probably laugh out loud.
How many flat spins have you performed? Upright? Inverted?
How many accelerated spins have you performed? Upright? Inverted?
TP13747 is incomplete, incorrect and totally misleading. If you had recognized spin expert like Rich Stowell or Bill Finagin read it, they would probably laugh out loud.
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Cat Driver
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mcrit:
With all due respect to you as a flight instructor may I take issue with your comment about pilots developing poor habits due to lack of recurrent training.
Having owned a FTU and watched the downward spiral of teaching basics get rushed due to ever expanding items being added to the curriculum I find that the problem generally is due to improper basics training right from the start.
Why should we have to correct bad habits during recurrent training that were learned or ignored during basic training?
With regard to the roller coaster attitude control during climb, that stems from trying to teach flying by instruments before they understand how to interpet outside visual clues for attitude control.
I hope you do not take this personally but I get tired of hearing the same old worn out excuses about poor aircraft handling skills by private pilots because they were not properly trained from the begenning.
Remember I am not a licensed Canadian Flight instructor as I let that lapse in 1965, and have not had the need or desire to renew it because I do not have any need to go through all the crap to keep it current.
Having said that I have been teaching flying since the late fifties and I can identify where the problems are in flight training.
Anyone want to discuss the X/wind skills of PPL's?
Once again may I reinforce that my comments are not directed at individuals, it is the system generally I have issues with.
One more comment.
If you are going to teach flight by reference to instruments only why not use simulators or better still two stage amber so it is realistic....anyone who wears a hood is getting the same physical sensations as screwing a blow up doll.
Cat...thoughtful and cultured as ever.
With all due respect to you as a flight instructor may I take issue with your comment about pilots developing poor habits due to lack of recurrent training.
Having owned a FTU and watched the downward spiral of teaching basics get rushed due to ever expanding items being added to the curriculum I find that the problem generally is due to improper basics training right from the start.
Why should we have to correct bad habits during recurrent training that were learned or ignored during basic training?
With regard to the roller coaster attitude control during climb, that stems from trying to teach flying by instruments before they understand how to interpet outside visual clues for attitude control.
I hope you do not take this personally but I get tired of hearing the same old worn out excuses about poor aircraft handling skills by private pilots because they were not properly trained from the begenning.
Remember I am not a licensed Canadian Flight instructor as I let that lapse in 1965, and have not had the need or desire to renew it because I do not have any need to go through all the crap to keep it current.
Having said that I have been teaching flying since the late fifties and I can identify where the problems are in flight training.
Anyone want to discuss the X/wind skills of PPL's?
Once again may I reinforce that my comments are not directed at individuals, it is the system generally I have issues with.
One more comment.
If you are going to teach flight by reference to instruments only why not use simulators or better still two stage amber so it is realistic....anyone who wears a hood is getting the same physical sensations as screwing a blow up doll.
Cat...thoughtful and cultured as ever.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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Hedley, if anyone needs training in all configurations of spins and they can't find a school in Canada I would suggest they get some from Burt Huizenga.
Bert is one of the best in the world and we have a wide selection of aerobatic aircraft available.
Here is our English web site.
http://www.pbyflighttraining.com
For Dutch just google Wings over Holland
Cat
Bert is one of the best in the world and we have a wide selection of aerobatic aircraft available.
Here is our English web site.
http://www.pbyflighttraining.com
For Dutch just google Wings over Holland
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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Pugster, tha sad part is it is so basic why should we even have to discuss it?
But more important and less understood is this failure of the system.
" If you are going to teach flight by reference to instruments only why not use simulators or better still two stage amber so it is realistic....anyone who wears a hood is getting the same physical sensations as screwing a blow up doll. "
I wonder how many instructors read our posts?
But more important and less understood is this failure of the system.
" If you are going to teach flight by reference to instruments only why not use simulators or better still two stage amber so it is realistic....anyone who wears a hood is getting the same physical sensations as screwing a blow up doll. "
I wonder how many instructors read our posts?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Ya . I dunno...
I'll qualify what I'm saying first - I am no "pro" when it comes to aviation - I'm relatively inexperienced, having only 3 years of instructing under my belt (100% success rate!), 1.5 years on a King Air, and now getting trained up for the next big adventure...but...
The thing that drives me nuts is that I still figured out in pretty short order that when my students were buggering up an exercise, it was very frequently because they were spending way too much time trying to interpret the instruments.
I always figured it was because a good number of the pilots joining the ranks these days grew up playing around on flight simulators (the MS kind), and have become relatively comfortable looking at a representation of the panel. I'd get them in the machine, and they'd inevitably start telling me the names of all the instruments...always knew I'd be in for some work when that happened. As an instructor, the best thing to do at this point is try to reinforce the need for the student to use outside references - and that instrument work will come later on.
As far as I'm concerned, needle, ball and airspeed are all that's really necessary for the first lessons taught on the PPL. New instructors should keep the instrument references simple - and focus on the relationship between attitude, airspeed and performance...trust me the IFR instructor down the road will thank you.
And Hoods? Don't get me started! Sensations relating to IMC can only be taught one way...flying in IMC. Procedures can be taught under VFR just fine - and for the initial IFR stuff the student will benefit greatly by being able to reference the attitude and position outside with what they perceive it to be based on the panel. I have no experience with 2 stage Amber, but I think the market is wide open for a device that better simulates the dissorienting effects of flying through cloud.
I'm actually considering jumping back into instructing on some of my days off...if for nothing else than to try to bring some extra cash to the table and to remember the satisfaction of bringing one up through the ranks...hopefully with a little common sense along the way.
I'll qualify what I'm saying first - I am no "pro" when it comes to aviation - I'm relatively inexperienced, having only 3 years of instructing under my belt (100% success rate!), 1.5 years on a King Air, and now getting trained up for the next big adventure...but...
The thing that drives me nuts is that I still figured out in pretty short order that when my students were buggering up an exercise, it was very frequently because they were spending way too much time trying to interpret the instruments.
I always figured it was because a good number of the pilots joining the ranks these days grew up playing around on flight simulators (the MS kind), and have become relatively comfortable looking at a representation of the panel. I'd get them in the machine, and they'd inevitably start telling me the names of all the instruments...always knew I'd be in for some work when that happened. As an instructor, the best thing to do at this point is try to reinforce the need for the student to use outside references - and that instrument work will come later on.
As far as I'm concerned, needle, ball and airspeed are all that's really necessary for the first lessons taught on the PPL. New instructors should keep the instrument references simple - and focus on the relationship between attitude, airspeed and performance...trust me the IFR instructor down the road will thank you.
And Hoods? Don't get me started! Sensations relating to IMC can only be taught one way...flying in IMC. Procedures can be taught under VFR just fine - and for the initial IFR stuff the student will benefit greatly by being able to reference the attitude and position outside with what they perceive it to be based on the panel. I have no experience with 2 stage Amber, but I think the market is wide open for a device that better simulates the dissorienting effects of flying through cloud.
I'm actually considering jumping back into instructing on some of my days off...if for nothing else than to try to bring some extra cash to the table and to remember the satisfaction of bringing one up through the ranks...hopefully with a little common sense along the way.
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Cat Driver
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Pugster the industry needs people like you so try and do some more instructing as you have a good grasp of how to do it.
Two stage amber is really quite simple.
Orange transparent plastic is placed in the windshield and on the side windows.
The student wears blue goggles, which gives him /her normal vision of everything in the cockpit tinted blue, however when looking at the orange film in the windshield only black will be seen.
The instructor has a very clear outside view exactly like wearing orange ski goggles.
So the stubent is flying with sole reference to instruments just like in cloud at night.
It is fool proof and very inexpensive.
Why it is no longer used truly is puzzeling.....that was how I learned to fly on instruments.
Cat
Two stage amber is really quite simple.
Orange transparent plastic is placed in the windshield and on the side windows.
The student wears blue goggles, which gives him /her normal vision of everything in the cockpit tinted blue, however when looking at the orange film in the windshield only black will be seen.
The instructor has a very clear outside view exactly like wearing orange ski goggles.
So the stubent is flying with sole reference to instruments just like in cloud at night.
It is fool proof and very inexpensive.
Why it is no longer used truly is puzzeling.....that was how I learned to fly on instruments.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Hedley, you do impress me. I've never seen anyone put their nose in the air and their head up their ass at the same time.
You asked me to list my experience and I shall oblige you in a moment, but first I'd like to invite you to address the points that I made.
1.) Are you familiar with the term stabilized oscilation? If not I shall get you a reference. (As an initail suggestion go read Kershner, he knows his stuff). A spin that oscilates with a constant period is stabilized. Think of it as taking the 3rd derivative.
2.) What sort of a spin do you get if your CG is too far aft?
As for my spin experince:
regular -> a shit load
accelerated -> a smaller shitload
snap rolls -> a shit load
messed up snap rolls that turned into a mix of ugly and interesting -> more than I want to admit.
inverted -> a few dozen
There really isn't anything special about spins. Anybody can do anykind of spin if they have the a/c and the training.
My suggestion would be that you knock off the ad homenom (yes, I preeeety sure I spelt it rong
) and try to add something constructive. A good plan for you would be to ask Cat to be your censor. Send all your posts to him, and he let you post the ones he approves of.
You asked me to list my experience and I shall oblige you in a moment, but first I'd like to invite you to address the points that I made.
1.) Are you familiar with the term stabilized oscilation? If not I shall get you a reference. (As an initail suggestion go read Kershner, he knows his stuff). A spin that oscilates with a constant period is stabilized. Think of it as taking the 3rd derivative.
2.) What sort of a spin do you get if your CG is too far aft?
As for my spin experince:
regular -> a shit load
accelerated -> a smaller shitload
snap rolls -> a shit load
messed up snap rolls that turned into a mix of ugly and interesting -> more than I want to admit.
inverted -> a few dozen
There really isn't anything special about spins. Anybody can do anykind of spin if they have the a/c and the training.
My suggestion would be that you knock off the ad homenom (yes, I preeeety sure I spelt it rong
) and try to add something constructive. A good plan for you would be to ask Cat to be your censor. Send all your posts to him, and he let you post the ones he approves of.Thanks for the support on getting back into instructing ..
Right now, the only thing holding me back is the glory of the new schedule (time off - want to enjoy it) and all sorts of commitments outside of aviation. If I do get involved again, it's going to be a contract-only affair where I can dictate the hours, write off the expenses, and to some degree set my fee. The funny thing is with the current state of the industry I've already had interest from a couple of schools looking for an "experienced" instructor...
Unfortunately my experience has been that instructors can be taught to a degree - but actually giving a sh#t about your students cannot. And in the end that's what is really going to separate the good from the not-so-good instructors...
To get back to the original topic, does the fact that I don't possess an aerobatic rating make me a bad instructor Hedley?
Right now, the only thing holding me back is the glory of the new schedule (time off - want to enjoy it) and all sorts of commitments outside of aviation. If I do get involved again, it's going to be a contract-only affair where I can dictate the hours, write off the expenses, and to some degree set my fee. The funny thing is with the current state of the industry I've already had interest from a couple of schools looking for an "experienced" instructor...
Unfortunately my experience has been that instructors can be taught to a degree - but actually giving a sh#t about your students cannot. And in the end that's what is really going to separate the good from the not-so-good instructors...
To get back to the original topic, does the fact that I don't possess an aerobatic rating make me a bad instructor Hedley?
Hey Cat:
I wasn't trying to absolve all instructors from blame in the department of bad a/c handling, when a student pilot is fouling up, there is no one to blame but the instructor. When a pilot that was licensed a long time ago starts to make foul ups it is possible that he may have picked that up all his own. My reasoning is that given he got his lic way back when (ie before the decline) he was taught right and has since turned himself into a foul up.
I wasn't trying to absolve all instructors from blame in the department of bad a/c handling, when a student pilot is fouling up, there is no one to blame but the instructor. When a pilot that was licensed a long time ago starts to make foul ups it is possible that he may have picked that up all his own. My reasoning is that given he got his lic way back when (ie before the decline) he was taught right and has since turned himself into a foul up.
of course not ... but if you decide to teach aerobatics, an aerobatic instructor rating might be an idea.does the fact that I don't possess an aerobatic rating make me a bad instructor
Paperwork aside, if you are going to hang your shingle out as an instructor, it might be an idea to:
1) have a clue about the theory, and
2) to have some practical experience doing what you're going to teach
Remember the "four forces" thread?
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Cat Driver
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mcrit:
Please note that in my opinion there is nothing that will replace recurrent training, for all of us.. no exceptions.. at least once a year.
However it would make things easier if they were given proper training from the first lesson.
Now I am going to make a statement that will get a lot of instructors agitated.
I am a firm beliver that on the first lesson the instructor flys the airplane from start up to arrival at the area where attitudes and movements are demonstrated and at that time you first allow the student to handle the flight controls.
To force a new student to perform the first takeoff instills anxiety and stress that acts like a blocker to what is actually going on in a lot of cases.
When I owned a flight school I had an ongoing problem with my instructors who forced the student to handle the controls on the first take off.
Mind you they were the experts who were burning out my exhaust valves leaning on climb every take off with a Cessna 150 at sea level. When I finally figured out why they were cooking the engines they had the termerity to tell me I did not understand the subject of leaning aircraft engines.
To make matters worse they told me that TC insisted they teach engine leaning proceedures so I called TC and ended up more frustrated than ever because those as.holes were dumber than my instructors.
How in fu.k do you deal with a mentality like that?
I honestly don't know how you guys deal with the stupidity in the flight instruction game.
Please note that in my opinion there is nothing that will replace recurrent training, for all of us.. no exceptions.. at least once a year.
However it would make things easier if they were given proper training from the first lesson.
Now I am going to make a statement that will get a lot of instructors agitated.
I am a firm beliver that on the first lesson the instructor flys the airplane from start up to arrival at the area where attitudes and movements are demonstrated and at that time you first allow the student to handle the flight controls.
To force a new student to perform the first takeoff instills anxiety and stress that acts like a blocker to what is actually going on in a lot of cases.
When I owned a flight school I had an ongoing problem with my instructors who forced the student to handle the controls on the first take off.
Mind you they were the experts who were burning out my exhaust valves leaning on climb every take off with a Cessna 150 at sea level. When I finally figured out why they were cooking the engines they had the termerity to tell me I did not understand the subject of leaning aircraft engines.
To make matters worse they told me that TC insisted they teach engine leaning proceedures so I called TC and ended up more frustrated than ever because those as.holes were dumber than my instructors.
How in fu.k do you deal with a mentality like that?
I honestly don't know how you guys deal with the stupidity in the flight instruction game.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Hey Cat,
Recently, I have actually been thinking of what you are talking about.
While I don't have the students do the first take-off, I do usually let them take control shortly after. It is kind of funny on the first lesson to take control from the student after the climb to show them the most basic thing. The cruise attitude
I find the problem is that you are not only a flight training unit you are also a business, and if the instructor is flying the airplane the entire time (or the student thinks you are {for good reason or not}) they get pissed off and go somewhere else, because their buddy was allowed to do the take-off on his first flight. Thats the down side, though I do completely agree with you.
BTD
Recently, I have actually been thinking of what you are talking about.
While I don't have the students do the first take-off, I do usually let them take control shortly after. It is kind of funny on the first lesson to take control from the student after the climb to show them the most basic thing. The cruise attitude
I find the problem is that you are not only a flight training unit you are also a business, and if the instructor is flying the airplane the entire time (or the student thinks you are {for good reason or not}) they get pissed off and go somewhere else, because their buddy was allowed to do the take-off on his first flight. Thats the down side, though I do completely agree with you.
BTD
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Cat Driver
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BTD, thanks for your comments.
The important thing you must understand when reading my suggestions is that I do so to improve the level of flight instruction.
Fu.k what other instructors think or do, only you can assure that you are the best you can be.
A student off the street has very little if any understanding of how flight instruction is structured. If you are confident polite and show intrest in them they will hang on every word, so if you explain to them that you will be conducting the take off and flight to the practice area and will describe each item as you perform it they will absorbe it far better that way than trying to fly the aircraft with no idea of what the fu.k they are doing.
( there is a long sentence )
The very best investment you can make toward excellence in flight training is a camcorder to record the parts of the lessons that will need debriefing...with a visual and aural record of what transpired both you and the student can relate to exactly what was said and done.
For sure watching your own performance will make you a better instructor as you will be able to critique your own performance.
The tape will become the property of the student.
I have been using a camcorder for years, it is worth its weight in diamonds and my clients love it as it makes the learning process easier and saves time making the same mistakes all over again in the air without really understanding where they are going wrong.
Cat
The important thing you must understand when reading my suggestions is that I do so to improve the level of flight instruction.
Fu.k what other instructors think or do, only you can assure that you are the best you can be.
A student off the street has very little if any understanding of how flight instruction is structured. If you are confident polite and show intrest in them they will hang on every word, so if you explain to them that you will be conducting the take off and flight to the practice area and will describe each item as you perform it they will absorbe it far better that way than trying to fly the aircraft with no idea of what the fu.k they are doing.
( there is a long sentence
)The very best investment you can make toward excellence in flight training is a camcorder to record the parts of the lessons that will need debriefing...with a visual and aural record of what transpired both you and the student can relate to exactly what was said and done.
For sure watching your own performance will make you a better instructor as you will be able to critique your own performance.
The tape will become the property of the student.
I have been using a camcorder for years, it is worth its weight in diamonds and my clients love it as it makes the learning process easier and saves time making the same mistakes all over again in the air without really understanding where they are going wrong.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
God Cat, we're in total agreement again.Cat Driver wrote: I am a firm beliver that on the first lesson the instructor flys the airplane from start up to arrival at the area where attitudes and movements are demonstrated and at that time you first allow the student to handle the flight controls.
One of the best techniques in an instructors arsenal is a solid demonstration. Unfortunately in my experience it is also one of the least used techniques by many instructors.
The demonstration is NOT just for the initial teaching of an exercise - through seeing the proper way things are done students will make huge gains - and often it is exactly what is needed to get over an impasse during training. Interestingly enough this was all mentored to me by an amazing TC inspector who always took the opportunity to improve my skills when he was giving me a ride. Using a video camera just allows you to revisit the demonstration and any problems the student may have encountered. One hell of an idea.
Hedley - I posed the question simply because threads have been deteriorating into pissing matches on who has better hands and feet lately. Agreed that to be a good instructor you need to have a solid understanding of the theory. Unfortunately with the current setup practical experience in instructors is pretty rare, although in a perfect world I agree completely. I do also believe that instructors must have the basic stick-and-rudder skills to give an effective demonstration of whatever it is they need to teach - hence my jib regarding being qualified to instruct (and therefore teaching spins) without an aerobatics rating...
BTD - the student may be pissed at the first flight, but if you do a good job it will be far outshadowed by the feeling he or she has that they got good instruction for their money. In contrast, I guarantee that the feeling of receiving shitty instruction and wasting one's money is pretty hard to get over. Teaching with the intent of creating the best end product you can will only increase your business over the long run - and make you the most popular instructor for students at a school...even if you're not the most "fun". Trust me on this one...although you probably already know!
Cheers, Peter (Pugster)
Cat, Clunck,
This is the first I've heard of the amber-blue system, but it sounds far superior to the "hood" or "foggles" that are so commonly used today. Also that sodium light thing sounds pretty slick. I'm curious, when did these things fall into disuse?
This is the first I've heard of the amber-blue system, but it sounds far superior to the "hood" or "foggles" that are so commonly used today. Also that sodium light thing sounds pretty slick. I'm curious, when did these things fall into disuse?
"Yeah. There is a problem. You...because you're dangerous. You're dangerous and foolish - and that makes you dangerous! Now, let's cut the...crap. We've got a plane to fly. Let's try to be on time, okay?"
~Val Kilmer, Saturday Night Live
~Val Kilmer, Saturday Night Live
Personally, I'd go with polarization as a visual filter, these days.maybe some clever bod could explain why only these light penertrated the Blue/Amber
Last edited by Hedley on Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
I kind of had a feeling that that was going to be the response to my post. 
My point was not that you have to be afraid of what the student thinks so you never demonstrate anything. Just that each student is different and you must adapt to keep them content with the training so they come back and don't feel it was a waste of time. They may not see the value of not flying all of the first lesson until a few more flights down the road.
I am not an instructor just in it for myself, I work hard for my students. But at the same time we are a business and must adapt slightly to each student to keep him/her happy and coming back.
BTD
My point was not that you have to be afraid of what the student thinks so you never demonstrate anything. Just that each student is different and you must adapt to keep them content with the training so they come back and don't feel it was a waste of time. They may not see the value of not flying all of the first lesson until a few more flights down the road.
I am not an instructor just in it for myself, I work hard for my students. But at the same time we are a business and must adapt slightly to each student to keep him/her happy and coming back.
BTD
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Clunk, the only explination I ever got to that question was from the head of flight training here in Vancouver.
I had hunted all over the known universe for the correct shade of amber flexible plastic and made up a complete set for my Grumman Cheetah for instrument training.
He informed me that he would not approve of any instrument training given in my airplane with this orange coulored plastic because in his words " you can not have anything that restricts the instructors vision in the windshield or the side windows. "
That was the " OFFICIAL " reason I had to scrap my two stage amber system.
No wonder the industry is going to hell with that kind of talent dictating how you can operate.
Fu.kin brain dead cretins.
Cat
I had hunted all over the known universe for the correct shade of amber flexible plastic and made up a complete set for my Grumman Cheetah for instrument training.
He informed me that he would not approve of any instrument training given in my airplane with this orange coulored plastic because in his words " you can not have anything that restricts the instructors vision in the windshield or the side windows. "
That was the " OFFICIAL " reason I had to scrap my two stage amber system.
No wonder the industry is going to hell with that kind of talent dictating how you can operate.
Fu.kin brain dead cretins.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
