Is this really industry standard pay?

Elessar_44 · Post by **Elessar_44** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:54 pm

You paint a very unfavourable picture for us 225hr guys xsbank

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:20 pm

The ONLY pilots I know who've retired reasonably happy were those that found a job with a company with a pension and stuck it out for 20 to 30 years. I know there are exceptions, and many clever people who put away enough dosh for their retirement differently, but don't get sucked into a career that gives you short-term pleasure for long-term pain. Most of the senior pilots I know have second jobs or activities that consume them, and when crew sched. calls, they are usually cheesed off to be taken away from their fun (vineyards, boats, cottages, businesses). These guys are at the top of the payscale - can you get there?

When you're sitting around waiting, as we all do, get yourself a second career/degree/training/skill and don't rely on flying only. If you live happily ever after, great, but don't rely on lottery tickets.

Like somebody here says, aviation will never love you back. And I LIKE flying!

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:28 pm

So what's the answer? Get a job that you hate, stay in that job for thirty years and die from a stress related heart attack or follow your dreams into a career that you have always well, dreamed of doing. I am near the end of my career and when I started I felt much like some of the people have expressed in this thread. At times I stuggled to make payments and wondered if I had made the right choice for what was, at that time, a very young family. Almost 27 years later I have no regrets.
For what it is worth, I have always advised my children to find something that "floats there boat". Life is too short to go through it miserable.

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:09 pm

bandaid I gotta agree with you to a point. If you're someone who's life is nothing more than your work, then yes only take a job that you love doing. If you have a lot of hobby's that you love outside of work, find a job you don't hate but that pays well enough and gives you enough time off to do them. If I had a choice, I'd take flying over my present job hands down. The problem is, I don't want to throw away the best years of my life in some shit town up north, flying on equipment held together with a prayer duct tape and bubble gum. After that stint, the poor pay and job insecurity will continue to haunt you and your life will continue to be 100% centered around your career. Myself, I got out, I make enough to do it on the side and it's still very enjoyable and not at all work, nor will it ever be. I'll never be able to land in London, or Dubai, in a LJ35 or manhandle a 747 on a strong crosswind, but I also come home every night and have a closet bigger than a carry on. I fly when I want, where I want and how I want and it's not my only enjoyment in my life. I scuba, surf, climb, travel, ski, and enjoy life to the fullest. Don't think that you have to have a job that you absolutely would kill for and sacrafice everything for it. Sometimes you don't have to sacrafice anything if you take a job that you don't hate instead.

Goldeneagle, good outline on how to make money and about the industry but I still have to disagree. The requirements for todays ATPL and commercial licence especially, are jokes. Would you really be willing to hire someone on simply becaused they produced a commercial licence? Anyone can get it and with 90% of all aviation related accidents partially attributed to pilot error, why not increase the expectations and only let the best get paid to fly. You don't have to increase the training lengths or costs, just the expectations. Unfortunately, as you alluded to, the people that hold the power are the airlines, and they wouldn't be happy if there weren't a million unqualified pilots lining up to take a Mcdonald salary.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:02 pm

justplanecrazy wrote:bandaid I gotta agree with you to a point. If you're someone who's life is nothing more than your work, then yes only take a job that you love doing. If you have a lot of hobby's that you love outside of work, find a job you don't hate but that pays well enough and gives you enough time off to do them. If I had a choice, I'd take flying over my present job hands down. The problem is, I don't want to throw away the best years of my life in some shit town up north, flying on equipment held together with a prayer duct tape and bubble gum. After that stint, the poor pay and job insecurity will continue to haunt you and your life will continue to be 100% centered around your career. Myself, I got out, I make enough to do it on the side and it's still very enjoyable and not at all work, nor will it ever be. I'll never be able to land in London, or Dubai, in a LJ35 or manhandle a 747 on a strong crosswind, but I also come home every night and have a closet bigger than a carry on. I fly when I want, where I want and how I want and it's not my only enjoyment in my life. I scuba, surf, climb, travel, ski, and enjoy life to the fullest. Don't think that you have to have a job that you absolutely would kill for and sacrafice everything for it. Sometimes you don't have to sacrafice anything if you take a job that you don't hate instead.

I spent time up North, I still have 2 nights a week that I am not home in my own bed (mental health breaks I call them). My point is not so much directed at pilots as anyone who is wondering what to do with their lives. Do one of two things, find a job that pays enough to make what you really enjoy into a hobbie or find what you really like to do and make it into a job. As I said "life is to short to go through it miserable". IMHO

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:05 pm

I may as well add my thoughts to this sbject.

I have probably been in this business longer than most here.

Why did I fly?

It was the only thing I ever wanted to do.

After fifty four years and finally sort of retired would I do it all over?

Yes.

Especiallly the last ten years, I have had quite a ride during the past decade having flown in so many countries I have actually sort of lost count.

Finally the money, the adventure and the people I work for was beyond my fondest dreams.

Were there bad times, hell yes and from each bad experience I learned more about life but fortunately we are wired to remember the good far more than the bad.

So my advise is if you really want to do something. Do it.

Cat

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:41 pm

bandaid wrote: Do one of two things, find a job that pays enough to make what you really enjoy into a hobbie or find what you really like to do and make it into a job. As I said "life is to short to go through it miserable". IMHO

100% agreed, and hey if you're lucky enough to be able to do both then give me your name so I can burn down your hanger for the rest of us. Some people like Cat and Hedley just have it way to good. Sailing, travelling and flying, how'd you get so lucky and when are you going to pass the torch to me?

looproll · Post by **looproll** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:50 pm

thank you for the meaningful discussion, folks. Lots of food for thought.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:51 am

Elessar_44 - just keep your eyes and ears open and try and mitigate the damage done by a job where you love your work. So many guys would rather fly an old piece of sh*t (twice as old as they are) in a crappy little town in rotten weather, swat bugs all summer and freeze their *sses off in the winter for a bag of peanuts and a p*ss-up on Friday night than get educated, become the next Bill Gates and own their own Global Express. Go figure.

Good luck in your career.

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:05 am

Cat Driver wrote:I may as well add my thoughts to this sbject.

I have probably been in this business longer than most here.

Why did I fly?

It was the only thing I ever wanted to do.

After fifty four years and finally sort of retired would I do it all over?

Yes.

Especiallly the last ten years, I have had quite a ride during the past decade having flown in so many countries I have actually sort of lost count.

Finally the money, the adventure and the people I work for was beyond my fondest dreams.

Were there bad times, hell yes and from each bad experience I learned more about life but fortunately we are wired to remember the good far more than the bad.

So my advise is if you really want to do something. Do it.

Cat

Cat... Tell me what you make of this... I read an article in the Jamaican Star that stated the Air Jamaica pilots took a pay cut... It is said that the average pay salary of the AJ pilots is now $120 000 USD. Are they just getting payed more than other airlines?