Safety Management System

[snaproll20]

So Bird Dog, wassamatta with lower rates for no claims? They do it in the auto insurance.
And get ye behind ME, you idea-thief!!!!!

You can hire on if you want, with me, but you get seconds.

Scab!

[Widow]

Through him I finally was invited to sit with a group of undrewriters in Lloyds fortress in down town London England.

Still got contacts at Lloyds Cat?

[Cat Driver]

Still got contacts at Lloyds Cat?

Yes.

[Driving Rain]

The US Navy and Marines practice SMS with style.

http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id ... bberdg.mp3

[...]

So Bird Dog, wassamatta with lower rates for no claims? They do it in the auto insurance.
And get ye behind ME, you idea-thief!!!!!

You can hire on if you want, with me, but you get seconds.

Scab!

Ok...4 things to address before I understand the level of maturity in which I should reply to.

wassamatta

#1 I'm not Eyetalian. I do however speak 4 languages. However Italian is NOT one of them. Perhaps that's the confusion?

Idea thief..

#2.....wha..?

you get seconds

#3 I dare you to expand on that.

Scab!

#4 Do you mean 'scab' as someone that has the nerve to cross the picket line during a labour dispute? 'Cause after spending 15 months on a picket line, which by the way was the longest in Canadian Aviation history, defending the working conditions you currently are enjoying now, by calling me a scab in a labour dispute sense...could not be more insulting and I won't let that one ride if it is indeed what you meant.


I await your reply.

[cumufsumyunguy]

Birddog...why don't you reread your own posts and use your imagination if you're trying to figure out what snaproll said...he wasn't slamming you, think hookers and steak...yeah...now apply the rest of what he said to that...k...nuff said.

[...]

Birddog...why don't you reread your own posts and use your imagination if you're trying to figure out what snaproll said...he wasn't slamming you, think hookers and steak...yeah...now apply the rest of what he said to that...k...nuff said.

I've got 3000+ useless posts on this site...you think I really remember what I posted half the time?I get distracted with bright lights and ceiling fans for god sake.

Besides, I'm so f'ing bored I jump at the chance if I think someone is looking to 'go'. Both in the cyber world and in the analog one as well. A got a couple of new cuts on my hands from this past weekend I'm dieing to show to someone.

so....you wanna 'go'?

[...]

Here s pic I just took of it...whatcha think?

Man have I ever hi-jacked this thread

[snaproll20]

bird dog

Scab withdrawn, picked-off, whatever.

I could never insult a staunch union man

(I never ever did get better working conditions. Are you claiming responsibility for that too?)

I won't speculate on how you injured that................lovely........
soft looking hand.............

But, the steaks are MINE. You can have the kind of hookers that Cat consorts with and the residue of whom he takes home.

How can he DO that?

[Cat Driver]

Success is having a hooker give you some freebys because she wanted to.

[W5]

Success is having a hooker give you some freebys because she wanted to.

Does it count if you were married to one??

[Cat Driver]

Does it count if you were married to one??

Huh???

Married and free tail???

I think we are straying from the subject of this thread, unless there is a SMS in the works for marriage and sport humping.

[hoptwoit]

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=26884

Don't know if every one saw this thread on the maintenance forum but this is the kind of stupidity that goes on in maintenance and I have seen it first hand. Do you think that SMS will help in situations like this? I doubt it at least not till something gets broken, or fired or both. I love living in the culture of safety.

[...]

I love living in the culture of safety.

That has to be the greatest saying I have ever read in my 17 years in the industry.

I salute you.

[Widow]

I love living in the culture of safety.

That has to be the greatest saying I have ever read in my 17 years in the industry.

I salute you.

Mr Preuss would be so proud!

[CD]

Flight Options Partners with FAA for Safety Management System

CLEVELAND--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Flight Options, LLC, a leading provider of fractional shares in business aircraft and a Raytheon Company (NYSE:RTN), announced today that the company has been selected by the FAA as the only fractional provider, and the largest of only nine aviation service providers nationwide, to partner and participate in the “proof of concept” phase of the development and implementation of a formal Safety Management System (SMS) for all air service providers.

“With a robust safety management program supported by a dedicated Safety department, Flight Options has worked continuously to build its position as an industry leader in safety,” said . Starkey, Vice President of Safety and Security, Flight Options, LLC. “Partnering with the FAA to develop a formal SMS gives us the opportunity not only to improve our program, but also to leverage our experience and help build the model program for the rest of the air transportation industry.”

A formal FAA-accepted Safety Management System is expected to become a regulatory requirement for all air carriers in 2009. To implement this model, the FAA reached out to industry leaders to help define, implement and validate the model SMS. Implementing a formal SMS will integrate safety best practices throughout the organization. Incorporating proven quality and management principles into the practice of safety, SMS involves line management, safety expertise and employee engagement to produce a healthy safety culture in every aspect of the business.

In a November address to nearly 500 aviation industry leaders from the United States and around the world, FAA Administrator Marion Blakey highlighted the importance of SMS for continuing to improve the industry’s safety record. “We’ve been able to amass a safety record that’s unparalleled. So the safety challenge, in a nutshell, is how do you take it to the next level? What will not only maintain this fabulous record but will position us to improve on that record as operations grow? I think the answer to that is safety management systems.”

Flight Options continuously strives to be the safest fractional company. Flight Options was the first and only fractional provider to receive the prestigious ARG/US Platinum Safety Rating three consecutive times — adhering to the same safety audit standards as U.S. Department of Defense and commercial airlines. Additionally, the Company became the first fractional aircraft operator approved by the FAA to participate in an Aviation Safety Action Program (ASAP). ASAP enhances aviation safety practices by encouraging flight crews to voluntarily report critical safety information, helping to proactively identify and correct hazards. ASAP was previously approved only for commercial airlines.

Flight Options, LLC offers the complete spectrum of programs from fractional ownership to leasing to JetPASS Ultimate Travel membership and has received the prestigious ARG/US Platinum Safety Rating three times. The Flight Options fleet of over 140 aircraft includes the world’s largest fleets of Beechjet 400As and Legacy Executive aircraft. Flight Options’ fleet consists of the Beechjet 400A, Hawker 400XP, Hawker 800XP, Citation X and Legacy. More information is available at http://www.flightoptions.com or by calling 877.703.2348.

Full story...

[Widow]

I think SMS is obvious for large(r) companies - where there team is large enough that one person can be responsible for overseeing safety. But in a small op with only a couple of planes?

[Doc]

SMS is just one more of TC's buzz words....in this case, it means CYAWP!

[Dust Devil]

I think SMS is obvious for large(r) companies - where there team is large enough that one person can be responsible for overseeing safety. But in a small op with only a couple of planes?

Why can't a small company have an sms system?

[Widow]

I think SMS is obvious for large(r) companies - where there team is large enough that one person can be responsible for overseeing safety. But in a small op with only a couple of planes?

Why can't a small company have an sms system?

I don't mean that it can't, or shouldn't. But I think leaving the general oversight for SMS in the hands of the small operator self has potential expanded for problems.

SMS worked well for industries that were basically unregulated to begin with. But aviation is hardly unregulated. It must be one of the most heavily regulated industries out there. SMS is an economic reduction in costs for TCCA. I believe cost in lives could be very high in the air taxi industry, which already has the highest death rate in this province (BC). Safety is really already covered in the ops manuals. The paper can say you are flight following all flights. The paper can say you are weighing all cargo and passengers. The paper can say you will call SAR within an hour of establishing an aircraft is missing. Just because it is written down doesn't make it true. How is the introduction of SMS going to make things better at the small ops?

[neilaroberts]

I think SMS is obvious for large(r) companies - where there team is large enough that one person can be responsible for overseeing safety. But in a small op with only a couple of planes?

Why can't a small company have an sms system?

I don't mean that it can't, or shouldn't. But I think leaving the general oversight for SMS in the hands of the small operator self has potential expanded for problems.

SMS worked well for industries that were basically unregulated to begin with. But aviation is hardly unregulated. It must be one of the most heavily regulated industries out there. SMS is an economic reduction in costs for TCCA. I believe cost in lives could be very high in the air taxi industry, which already has the highest death rate in this province (BC). Safety is really already covered in the ops manuals. The paper can say you are flight following all flights. The paper can say you are weighing all cargo and passengers. The paper can say you will call SAR within an hour of establishing an aircraft is missing. Just because it is written down doesn't make it true. How is the introduction of SMS going to make things better at the small ops?

I have found the introduction of SMS in our small company to give me a lot more versatility in the way we conduct ourselves. We go ahead and make compliance with our SMS mandatory for all employees, make our training, our hazard reporting, our self-auditing, our standards so specialized that it would never fit in to any other company. Now on the side, I have all of our previous work that meets the CARS and anything transport put forward in the past.

It is true, just because it is written down on paper doesn't make it true, but that is all up to the operator, like everything else. This is not the flakey-wishy washy human factors stuff that people make it out to be. You take your operation, your risks, your hazards, your employees, and find the holes. Common sense and a direct approach. It makes sense to me.

SMS is what you make of it. It's scope can very easily be adapted to small organizations. There are plenty of wrinkles to be ironed out, but I certainly welcome the initiative.



Neil

[trey kule]

I have to get involved on this one.

I think Pita pretty much had it right, and some of the other posters are simply regurgerating TC propoganda, to the point where I think this whole website is being monitored by TC people ready to jump in . When I read respnses like Water Off's I cant help but notice how close to the actual wording that is to TC'c official policy.

That being said, the theory behind SMS is not a bad one. The fact is that TC has not really got it all together. In true government fashion they are implementing something that they have not looked at all that thoroughly.

Good companies are already practicing SMS, they just dont call it that. By documenting it, they will, as Cat alluded to, be setting themselves up for a beating by TC. There was a case a few years ago where a company was doing absolutely everything perfect on paper. Until they bumped a plane in one night and killed a few innocent passangers...then TSB and TC lambasted them...even made the aviaition safety letter. SMS is not going to solve this kind of real problem with management.

The fact is, if you have unscrupulous, lazy, or incompetent management who is, on the other hand, adept at paperwork, they wll just fake it.

Lastly, TC themselves have said....this replaces nothing...IT IS JUST ANOTHER LAYER OF PAPERWORK....AND IT FOR TC'S BENEFIT

They are on phase 1....sell it ...cute cartoons in the Aviation Safety letter. Courses for Safety Officers...long on philosophy...short on meat and potatoes...

and when they are done, enforcement will take over to see we all comply.

I know most of the young types here think us old guys like to bitch and complain, but this is one more thing where you are being sold down the river.....Apply some logic and common sense to what they are saying...we are doing it anyway...well then why bother to go through all this documentation? It is a culture.. Now what the hell does that mean?
I have been flying for over 40 years and I can tell you I dont want my wrinkled old white butt damaged...how many of you feel the same about yours? Thats all safety really is. Think about what can happen and then try and prevent it before it does...we dont need TC involved to do that.

The whole new world of aviation is getting to be one of paper...even in the cockpit....and the new generation think that is absolutely normal...it isnt.

[Cat Driver]

Excellent post Trey K....

....I was involved in setting up a PDM and CRM course in Europe to cover our operations for carrying passengers and air show display flying for our organization and except for the pilots who were mostly airline types everyone else were from outside aviation and could not really relate their ideas to the physical enviorement in the airplane......

.....it fuc.in almost drove me nuts trying to explain why some of the SOP's they wanted were not workable in our environment however taking them in the airplane and showing them why some things would not work solved the problem.....except they wanted me to do some more work with them in their business.......my God I had enough problems trying to stay alive flying.

[Dust Devil]

I have found the introduction of SMS in our small company to give me a lot more versatility in the way we conduct ourselves. We go ahead and make compliance with our SMS mandatory for all employees, make our training, our hazard reporting, our self-auditing, our standards so specialized that it would never fit in to any other company. Now on the side, I have all of our previous work that meets the CARS and anything transport put forward in the past.

It is true, just because it is written down on paper doesn't make it true, but that is all up to the operator, like everything else. This is not the flakey-wishy washy human factors stuff that people make it out to be. You take your operation, your risks, your hazards, your employees, and find the holes. Common sense and a direct approach. It makes sense to me.

SMS is what you make of it. It's scope can very easily be adapted to small organizations. There are plenty of wrinkles to be ironed out, but I certainly welcome the initiative.



Neil

Great post!.

Widow

Ops manuals absolutly give a level of safety however they don't take a proactive approach to detecting and solving new challenges. A well implemented sms policy allows for hazard reporting system and a paper trail by the employees to document that a hazard has been found and actions taken or not taken.

Had an sms system been in place a pilot may have identified the lack of a good flight following system in the operation where your husband was sadly killed and steps may have been taken to solve the problem before it happened.

[pushyboss]

SMS is a proactive approach to risk management as opposed to the "old" system where we have an accident, report the findings and make a new rule. SMS handled properly will seek out risks and hazards in the aviation workplace and work to reduce or mitigate these risks and hazards.

A cornerstone to SMS is the role of the accountable executive. In the "old" days management would simply wash their hands of a problem and point to the PIC and say he/she did not comply with the Operations Manual or the CARS. Now the sccountable exec holds as much responsibility (maybe even more) than the PIC. With the potential for civil liability, for allowing non-compliance and running an unsafe operation, there is financial incentive for ensuring the operation is run in a safe manner.

SMS is nothing more than trying to identify risks and hazards before they become incidents and accidents. Seems to me that we should support any attempt to reduce incidents and accidents.

And yes I'm an old guy who has been to my fair share of funerals under the old system. Maybe it's time to try something new.