Well, I assume they only hire their grads. ZING!Cat Driver wrote: When they are interviewing for the next CFI or who ever makes these mindboggling decisions do they hire only those who can't figure out how to correct for a x/wind?
Seneca college (Bachelor of Applied Technology)
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore
Ok, just in the interest of balance I have flown with some Seneca grads that were ok, it's just the few of them that have the 'Senecattude' that make it so fun to bash the school in general. 
For those of you that don't have the Senecattude, sorry, you're just gonna have to grin and bear it. 
For those of you that don't have the Senecattude, sorry, you're just gonna have to grin and bear it. -
BeechjetYKZ
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Cat Driver
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Maybe I'm not quite getting the whole picture, can someone explain the 5 knot X/wind restriction?
Is it for solo or both dual and solo?
Seems real weird.
Is it for solo or both dual and solo?
Seems real weird.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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mclaren123
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Hey guys,
I'm a fourth year Seneca student right now. The 5kt crosswind limit applies to solo/mutual flights as a minimum limit. This means that every student is assumed to be able to handle a 5kt crosswind. The students are able to have this limit to a maximum of 15kts assuming that they fly with an instructor in that amount of crosswind and the instructor 'signs them off' for it. This raised limit is only valid for a limited time (few weeks) and once it expires it goes back to 5kts until the student gets it signed off again. Dual flight are still up to the judgment of the instructor as to the amount of crosswind to operate the flight in. There are also several lessons that are devoted to learning and practicing crosswind techniques, when able, using the runway that allows for the greatest amount of crosswind. I believe that these procedures have been put in place due to insurance policies after previous incidents. Hope this clarifies this a bit...
One more misconception that I've seen on this thread that I would like to clear up is that every student that achieves at least a C+ in every course, B in some more closely related to aviation, is allowed to proceed through the program. It is no longer just the top X number of students that make it through so this has eliminated any competition between students that may have previously existed.
Tom
I'm a fourth year Seneca student right now. The 5kt crosswind limit applies to solo/mutual flights as a minimum limit. This means that every student is assumed to be able to handle a 5kt crosswind. The students are able to have this limit to a maximum of 15kts assuming that they fly with an instructor in that amount of crosswind and the instructor 'signs them off' for it. This raised limit is only valid for a limited time (few weeks) and once it expires it goes back to 5kts until the student gets it signed off again. Dual flight are still up to the judgment of the instructor as to the amount of crosswind to operate the flight in. There are also several lessons that are devoted to learning and practicing crosswind techniques, when able, using the runway that allows for the greatest amount of crosswind. I believe that these procedures have been put in place due to insurance policies after previous incidents. Hope this clarifies this a bit...
One more misconception that I've seen on this thread that I would like to clear up is that every student that achieves at least a C+ in every course, B in some more closely related to aviation, is allowed to proceed through the program. It is no longer just the top X number of students that make it through so this has eliminated any competition between students that may have previously existed.
Tom
Forget the C's and B's! If you need to be signed off to deal with a cross wind over 5 knots, you sure as shit ain't ready to be employed as a pilot. Anywhere! Gawd, five KNOTS? I'll take a pilot who got D's in academics and can actually FLY!
Sure hope I'm not being too harsh here, but really! Come ON!
Who is the rocket scientist who came up with this limit? The word mollycoddle comes to mind here.
Where can you fly three days in a row that there isn't a six knot cross wind?
I know, I'm "castrating" Seneca students again, aren't I?
Sure hope I'm not being too harsh here, but really! Come ON!
Who is the rocket scientist who came up with this limit? The word mollycoddle comes to mind here.
Where can you fly three days in a row that there isn't a six knot cross wind?
I know, I'm "castrating" Seneca students again, aren't I?
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Cat Driver
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Actually for the purpose of learning to fly an airplane you can take an illiterate person and as long as they understand the language you speak you can teach them to fly to a very high standard.
Hell on second thought they don't even have to understand what you are saying , you could teach them by hand signals.
This whole training thing is getting truly dummed down it would seem.
Hell on second thought they don't even have to understand what you are saying , you could teach them by hand signals.
This whole training thing is getting truly dummed down it would seem.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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You have met some of the ones I trained that way?" You've given us proof positive of that. "
By the way hows the ramming the throttle back and forth to produce yaw demos going?
Before you criticize someone else mcrit it would be wise to have some expertise in the subject being criticized.
I wouldnt let a throttle monkey run my lawnmower, much less fly my airplane.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
come on guys (and girls of course)
he he he he he
sorry, couldn't help this one, everybody spitting at each others, for whichever reason, I guess it's a good reason to make me laugh. thanks for making my day
sorry, couldn't help this one, everybody spitting at each others, for whichever reason, I guess it's a good reason to make me laugh. thanks for making my day
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Cat Driver
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Yeh nyco, sometimes one wonders why there is so much confusion among the pilot fraterinty when it comes to understanding how to actually fly an airplane.......
.......then you read some of the methods that are used to teach and it all becomes clear as to why there are so many marginally skilled pilots wandering around looking for work.
Hint, when being interviewed by a new employer who operates piston engine airplanes buy them a beer and tell them you can produce yaw in their airplane by ramming the throttle back and forth.
If you get the job, get back to me.
.......then you read some of the methods that are used to teach and it all becomes clear as to why there are so many marginally skilled pilots wandering around looking for work.
Hint, when being interviewed by a new employer who operates piston engine airplanes buy them a beer and tell them you can produce yaw in their airplane by ramming the throttle back and forth.
If you get the job, get back to me.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Given the length of time its been since you did ab initio training I'd hazard a guess that most of the illiterates you trained are dead by now, but I have met people who've worked with you.You have met some of the ones I trained that way?
If by that you mean using a normally aspirated light training a/c to properly enter low speed cruise and then recover, then its going fine and does wonders to convince student pilots to use rudders when making a power change.By the way hows the ramming the throttle back and forth to produce yaw demos going?
Physician heal thyself.Before you criticize someone else mcrit it would be wise to have some expertise in the subject being criticized.
Just because you, and others on here, are insecure about your lack of education doesn't mean the rest of us want to hear your verbal diarrhea.
(definite spitting here to entertain the proles)
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Cat Driver
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mcrit.
The real measure of what your teaching ability is worth is best measured in what you get paid to teach.
So win lose or draw mcrit even though you seem to think I am a semi illiterate I still get paid more per hour flown to teach than you make in a day.
As to the power changing thing you clearly stated that you use the throttle to produce yaw by moving it back and forth fast enough to produce a yawing movement.....
.....I wouldn't let you operate my lawnmower if that is your understanding of how to operate any aircraft.
So lets just agree to disagree, and if any of the young guys who are learning to fly wish to see who understands how to teach flying all they need do is pick up the phone and call a few airplane owner-operators and ask them what they think of that method of engine handling.....
It time for me to quit posting in the flight training forum again and leave it up to all you Class 1's mcrit because the Class 1 is the magic wand to make em feel they are getting the best.
Sad...............it is truly sad.
One more thing mcrit, I do not appreciate cowards using innuendo to make a point, so please elaborate on what exactly this means.
I have lots of time on my hands for a few weeks mcrit so what do you mean by that statement?
The real measure of what your teaching ability is worth is best measured in what you get paid to teach.
So win lose or draw mcrit even though you seem to think I am a semi illiterate I still get paid more per hour flown to teach than you make in a day.
As to the power changing thing you clearly stated that you use the throttle to produce yaw by moving it back and forth fast enough to produce a yawing movement.....
.....I wouldn't let you operate my lawnmower if that is your understanding of how to operate any aircraft.
So lets just agree to disagree, and if any of the young guys who are learning to fly wish to see who understands how to teach flying all they need do is pick up the phone and call a few airplane owner-operators and ask them what they think of that method of engine handling.....
It time for me to quit posting in the flight training forum again and leave it up to all you Class 1's mcrit because the Class 1 is the magic wand to make em feel they are getting the best.
Sad...............it is truly sad.
One more thing mcrit, I do not appreciate cowards using innuendo to make a point, so please elaborate on what exactly this means.
Are you saying you met some pilot who claims I don't know how to teach?Given the length of time its been since you did ab initio training I'd hazard a guess that most of the illiterates you trained are dead by now, but I have met people who've worked with you.
I have lots of time on my hands for a few weeks mcrit so what do you mean by that statement?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
hum, proles, I don't know what it means, but i d love to find out just to know if I should feel insulted or not 
.
Anyways, we all use the same airspace after all, so come over in ottawa and we ll discuss each others techniques, maybe even share a flight, might be more productive than posts like that.
anyways, I used to be in a flight school like any other big flight school, where of course we did things the right way, and others were just wrong all along, of course..... it always makes me laugh, still indeed. hey guys, if your way is the best, share it, and discuss it, maybe it s not.
For the Xwind limitation, I m part of those who think Xwind training is a must do, as I did with my student, but consider some cannot because of insurance limitations. sounds stupid? yeah it is, welcome to the real world. doesn't mean instructor are worse, maybe they just can't do otherwise, and for the love of flying, can't just say F..... it and go away. For every problem, there is a reason, and (should) be a solution.
.Anyways, we all use the same airspace after all, so come over in ottawa and we ll discuss each others techniques, maybe even share a flight, might be more productive than posts like that.
anyways, I used to be in a flight school like any other big flight school, where of course we did things the right way, and others were just wrong all along, of course..... it always makes me laugh, still indeed. hey guys, if your way is the best, share it, and discuss it, maybe it s not.
For the Xwind limitation, I m part of those who think Xwind training is a must do, as I did with my student, but consider some cannot because of insurance limitations. sounds stupid? yeah it is, welcome to the real world. doesn't mean instructor are worse, maybe they just can't do otherwise, and for the love of flying, can't just say F..... it and go away. For every problem, there is a reason, and (should) be a solution.
Well for the record I know people who have flown with Cat and I would fly with him any day.
I am never ashamed to say "I didn't know that"!
OH my avatar is actually a Seneca grad in a 7 knot crosswind...LOL ( just kidding)
I am never ashamed to say "I didn't know that"!
OH my avatar is actually a Seneca grad in a 7 knot crosswind...LOL ( just kidding)
Putting money into aviation is like wiping before you poop....it just don't make sense!
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Cat Driver
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I am in the business of doing flight training for insurance purposes and I have never heard of any insurance restrictions with regard to teaching to the certified limits of any flying machine." For the Xwind limitation, I m part of those who think Xwind training is a must do, as I did with my student, but consider some cannot because of insurance limitations. sounds stupid? yeah it is, welcome to the real world. doesn't mean instructor are worse, maybe they just can't do otherwise, and for the love of flying, can't just say F..... it and go away. For every problem, there is a reason, and (should) be a solution. "
If there is a limit to training to a figure less than the certified numbers with regard to X/winds what about the stall speed numbers?
Are you not allowed to let the airplane get near the stall speed?
This training thing is getting more bizarre every day.
Of course we may be discussing this with 12 year olds sitting on their parents computers, that would be more comforting than thinking that flight instructors are really this dummed down.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
wowowowowow
Ok cat, to be clear, i m not insulting anyone, and trying to not judge people, their actions, their training, unless I have a chance to discuss with them face to face. Sorry if you're into that. on my side, I won't insult you on your beliefs, not am I expecting you to. Funny thing in this, is we agree on the basis of the discussion. so instead of going on with your 12 yo comment, please respect me as I respect you, and I'm all open to your comments (when respectful). I just disagree when people really beleive they belong to this more knowledgeable category. I beleive posts are made to consider others comments, and give our own, not to discredit people.
Peace
Ok cat, to be clear, i m not insulting anyone, and trying to not judge people, their actions, their training, unless I have a chance to discuss with them face to face. Sorry if you're into that. on my side, I won't insult you on your beliefs, not am I expecting you to. Funny thing in this, is we agree on the basis of the discussion. so instead of going on with your 12 yo comment, please respect me as I respect you, and I'm all open to your comments (when respectful). I just disagree when people really beleive they belong to this more knowledgeable category. I beleive posts are made to consider others comments, and give our own, not to discredit people.
Peace
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Cat Driver
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nyco, I am not insulting you, I was only giving my thoughts on the subject of insurance companies putting restrictions on flight training that are less than the certified flight envelope of the airplane.
I have no idea who you are and am not interested in a mental circle jerk to argue about something that I do for a living....
....however I am open to the idea that it is possible that flight training in Canada may be dummed down enough that the insurance companies are getting worried about covering the risks associated with inept flight instruction.
And nyco there is a vast difference between " beliefes " and known instructional techniques and methods that have been proven to be safe and effective for many decades.
Especially in that modern airplanes used in flight training are designed to be very easy to fly and teach in.
So I am not trying to insult you just giving my thoughts based on my experience gained over the years as a teacher of flying skills.
I have no idea who you are and am not interested in a mental circle jerk to argue about something that I do for a living....
....however I am open to the idea that it is possible that flight training in Canada may be dummed down enough that the insurance companies are getting worried about covering the risks associated with inept flight instruction.
And nyco there is a vast difference between " beliefes " and known instructional techniques and methods that have been proven to be safe and effective for many decades.
Especially in that modern airplanes used in flight training are designed to be very easy to fly and teach in.
So I am not trying to insult you just giving my thoughts based on my experience gained over the years as a teacher of flying skills.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
fair enough Mr Cat
I respect this view better than the comments about talking to 12 yo.
I guess my main feeling, when reading the posts and reply betweeen mcrit and yourself, is one of sadness to see that these discussions don't seem very constructive, apart from quoting and trying to be as negative as possible.
That said, I respect your views, as I beleive myself that teaching how to deal with the corner of the envelope, as well as avoiding getting there unconsiously should be part of any normal curiculum. Thanks for he precision, I appreciate.
I am always ready to discuss and learn from more experienced, so if you ever come around ottawa, i ll pay you a beer
(that's how generous I am). I m not from Canada originally, and I'm eager to learn more about Canada's aviation training industry.
Cheers, and peace
Nicolas
I respect this view better than the comments about talking to 12 yo.
I guess my main feeling, when reading the posts and reply betweeen mcrit and yourself, is one of sadness to see that these discussions don't seem very constructive, apart from quoting and trying to be as negative as possible.
That said, I respect your views, as I beleive myself that teaching how to deal with the corner of the envelope, as well as avoiding getting there unconsiously should be part of any normal curiculum. Thanks for he precision, I appreciate.
I am always ready to discuss and learn from more experienced, so if you ever come around ottawa, i ll pay you a beer
(that's how generous I am). I m not from Canada originally, and I'm eager to learn more about Canada's aviation training industry.Cheers, and peace
Nicolas
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Cat Driver
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nyco:
Thanks for the offer, My comment about 12 year olds was not directed at you but meant to be generic, if you read enough of the posts on Avcanada you will wonder if some of the posters are even at the level of a 12 year old.
I may be visiting Ottawa in the next few months to see Clunkdriver as my Aeroplan miles are at the use e'm or lose e'm stage.
As to mcrit, I have no idea who he or she may be but if he /she wants to exchange insults hell I don't really give a rats ass because I am quite comfortable in my position regarding how to operate airplanes and if he / she has a techqnique of teaching that in my opinion is unorthodox so be it.
Cat
Thanks for the offer, My comment about 12 year olds was not directed at you but meant to be generic, if you read enough of the posts on Avcanada you will wonder if some of the posters are even at the level of a 12 year old.
I may be visiting Ottawa in the next few months to see Clunkdriver as my Aeroplan miles are at the use e'm or lose e'm stage.
As to mcrit, I have no idea who he or she may be but if he /she wants to exchange insults hell I don't really give a rats ass because I am quite comfortable in my position regarding how to operate airplanes and if he / she has a techqnique of teaching that in my opinion is unorthodox so be it.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Okay....I've heard references to the reason behind the 5 knot limit, but, to date nobody has spilled the beans? Sooo.....what happened?
As for a cross wind limit being an insurance issue? I'll call "bull poop" to that one. Most aircraft have "demonstrated" cross wind limitations, and while I wouldn't let a student pilot go near these values, to limit him/her to 5 knots is BS!
Leaves me thinking, if one were to hire a Seneca grad.....one would have to teach him to fly?
As for a cross wind limit being an insurance issue? I'll call "bull poop" to that one. Most aircraft have "demonstrated" cross wind limitations, and while I wouldn't let a student pilot go near these values, to limit him/her to 5 knots is BS!
Leaves me thinking, if one were to hire a Seneca grad.....one would have to teach him to fly?
.... and how in demand you are. Given that you've racked up more posts than anyone else on avcanada I'd say you have a fair bit of spare time.The real measure of what your teaching ability is worth is best measured in what you get paid to teach.
So you've made it clear that you think any sort of extra throttle movement is bad for an engine, what is your opinion when it comes to running and engine that is showing little to no oil pressure?
Feel free, we'll keep the flight training on track with or without you.It time for me to quit posting in the flight training forum again and leave it up to all you Class 1's mcrit because the Class 1 is the magic wand to make em feel they are getting the best.
