YWG 1900s

ski_bum · Post by **ski_bum** » Thu May 03, 2007 5:37 pm

1 Vote for SkyNorth, I have heard the rumours for months, even from there guys. It is definatly not Fast Air.

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Thu May 03, 2007 5:57 pm

Catdriver: 1st I didn't call Doc a racist in response to an argument I had with him. I called his comments on a thread (I had yet to post on)racist. I, in fact, started the argument by calling his post racist. If you are going to make statements get your facts straight. 2nd I merely was wondering how it is that, as long as you post something disparaging about First Nations everyone here is O.K. with it and will rush to the defense of the indefensible. Perhaps you should go back to the beginning and read the original post, there was no need to narrow it down to a "Native" owned airline when just an airline would have sufficed. By singling out "Native" airlines as the only ones who "milk" the taxpayer dollars it was by definition a racist comment. I showed this post to the Band manager here and he agreed with me. No mention was made of successful "Native" owned airlines just ones who "milk" the taxpayers.

Bobcaygeon: As far as I know only one person( in a $250 million scandal) has been convicted so far. Another who was part of it has been ordered to lecture on ethics!!!!!!!! So perhaps I'm not the only one who is weak on history. Also, I cited the sponorship scandal as merely one example of corruption ( hence the e.i.) that take place every day where no one is made to answer. I did this in response to your post where you intimated that because there exists political corruption in a system it is O.K. to post racist remarks.

As far as whether the airline was started/bought who cares! Are you intimating that First Nations people are not capable of starting an airline. I happen to work for one that was started by the band I work and with no outside help!!!!!!! IMAGINE THAT!!!!!!!

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:26 pm

Hey chu me, I'm no "racist". I am however, "jaded".

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:47 pm

Jaded? Really. Perhaps you would care to elaborate.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu May 03, 2007 7:16 pm

Yeh, jaded thats a good description to express how one becomes after decades of watching nothing change in aviation in the north under the apartheid policy that seperates two cultures in Canada.

Sheila · Post by **Sheila** » Thu May 03, 2007 7:26 pm

chu me, Are you for real?

Keep up the good work chui

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu May 03, 2007 7:33 pm

So how many reserves have you been on Sheila?

Sheila · Post by **Sheila** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:08 pm

Cat driver, What does that got to do with this? How many have you been on?

I don't think we really know anything about reserves so what's your point? I have been to a few. Mostly you can read about stuff in the paper, anyway.

I'm quitting this thread, too weird for me.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:13 pm

Aw, we'll miss your absolute wealth of knowledge! Everything you "know" about the aviation business in the north, you picked up on CBC. And we know how impartial they are!

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:48 pm

I spent a fair amount of time on a reserve and have been in and around them quite a bit. Also have watched the ops of native funded/owned airlines.. They certainly have the "edge" over all the other operations.

I fail to see the racist remarks?

chu me.. are you first nations? or just work for one of the "operations"?

Set all us racist morons straight

bobcaygeon · Post by **bobcaygeon** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:50 pm

CHU ME
No insinuations here buddy. Anybody can start an airline with enuf money, look at David Ho (Harmony). Just pointing out that Wasaya had been around years before it was run by the current group.

Your right, "Native" people shouldn't be singled out for anything !!
No special rules for anyone buddy. But that ain't the way it is.

ONE SET OF RULES FOR EVERONE

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:02 am

Alright! first of all I happen to live on a reserve right now and have been living here for the past two years. Before that I have lived and worked on reserves right across Canada. (Although I fail to see what bearing, living on or ever having been to a reserve, has on Sheila's right to comment). So yes Catdriver I am well aware of the system of Apartheid that exists in this country. I see the results of it everyday and sometimes I am ashamed to be Canadian because of it. So I will stand and point out racist comments whenever I see them.

To Doc : I noticed that your avatar is JFK, I am assuming that you admire him. I do not think JFK would have been very proud of the things that you were saying. When you differentiated who owned the airlines in question along the line of race("native") your comments became racist.

To Bobcaygeon: while you are saying "No insinuations here buddy" you then go on to insinuate that First Nations people receive special treatment in Canada. If that were so, why is there so much poverty amongst First Nations in Canada. So much poverty in fact that the United Nations have declared reserves in northern Canada third world nations. You are right at least when you say "No special rules for anyone buddy.But that ain't the way it is." but I would suspect it has a different meaning where I live!!!

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:15 am

I will add a postscript to my above comments. Just because I never visited South Africa during the Apartheid years, does not mean that I didn't understand that it was wrong to oppress the black population of South Africa. So because Sheila and others have not been to a reserve does not mean that she cannot understand what is happening up here. It merely means she/they have not seen it first hand. Although you guys are doing a great job of bringing it to her! Maybe now she understands what I'm talking about!

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:26 am

To Rowdy: It seems to me that less than two years ago you were a 200 hr wonder . So I would like to know just how much experience you have had that allows you to post something like this

I spent a fair amount of time on a reserve and have been in and around them quite a bit. Also have watched the ops of native funded/owned airlines.. They certainly have the "edge" over all the other operations.

Then I would like you to explain to the good people exactly what " edge" you are talking about.

Truth be told I think you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, you are just regurgitating things you have heard here before from "jaded" people like Doc.

Whether I am first nations? or just work for one of the "operations has no bearing on the discussion.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:00 am

Whether I am first nations? or just work for one of the "operations has no bearing on the discussion.

Human nature doesen't work that way when the " racist " card gets played people picture Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in their minds, two professional card players.

Accusing someone of being racist without true evidence of said person truly being racist is bound to ruffle feathers.

No more BS · Post by **No more BS** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:29 am

Back to the thread!

It's Bolton Air.

AKA Skynorth

Minis**c Place is "Investing"...

And no, a 1900 C or D isn't a money maker in Manitoba. It will only work in companies where there is some kind of health contract involved. (In other words, the airline gets paid whether there is 1 pax or 19. Then you can make extra gravy with the pop and the chips on the northbound trips, provided there is space/weight available. (Which implies that you will need have access to some fuel up north in order to leave YWG with min fuel...)

In other words, good luck!

confuzed · Post by **confuzed** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:51 am

chu me wrote:
To Bobcaygeon: while you are saying "No insinuations here buddy" you then go on to insinuate that First Nations people receive special treatment in Canada. If that were so, why is there so much poverty amongst First Nations in Canada. So much poverty in fact that the United Nations have declared reserves in northern Canada third world nations. You are right at least when you say "No special rules for anyone buddy.But that ain't the way it is." but I would suspect it has a different meaning where I live!!!

Just playing a little bit more devils advocate here....lets see, free education, and free housing (on the reserve) to start. However, many natives are unwilling to leave the north to take advantage of that free subsidy so provided by the government. I see where doc and the others are coming from chu me and it's well warranted. I too have seen first hand how money has been pissed away for no good reason among various locations up north. Also, having worked the Air Ambulance gig for a while (which I know for Doc does on a regular basis, not sure about if Cat has done so) it's amazing how much money is wasted. I do also agree with Rudy (at least I think that's who said this) with the fact that if you're not part of the "in" crowd you're pretty much forgotten about.

The poverty up north can be dealt with, however in order to be able to help people they have to WANT to be helped in the first place. I've seen many cases over the years where the only thing that is focused on is how much they've been repressed over the centuries. Please don't tie me to something that I had nothing to do with. I too had the opinion of sheila when I first arrived in NWO, but after seeing how money is squandered first hand I have since changed my tune. I have also worked for a band run airline and yes it was run well, and it was able to survive without much help from the outside. There are natives out there that I have met who have done incredible things with their lives and I respect them highly. I have native friends as well, however I have also seen the majority of the problem areas as well. Yes, I have lived on reserves in 3 different provinces.....one of them being a wet reserve (that was an interesting time). I have seen the good, but I've also seen the bad and unfortunately the bad outweighs the good.

Dash-Ate · Post by **Dash-Ate** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:09 am

chu me do you work for Tindi at all? Just curious.

piperflyer · Post by **piperflyer** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:33 am

It's Bolton Air.

AKA Skynorth

Minis**c Place is "Investing"

[b]Is that cofirmed [/b][/quote]

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Fri May 04, 2007 2:44 pm

1900 in YWG eh?

why is it such a secret?

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:09 pm

To Confuzed: You wrote

lets see, free education, and free housing (on the reserve) to start. However, many natives are unwilling to leave the north to take advantage of that free subsidy so provided by the government.

Once again someone has posted a myth. When a Treaty/status Indian lives off reserve they are no longer entitled to free housing. If said person goes on to a post-secondary education there are two ways it is paid for 1) they cough up the tuition on their own, just like the rest of us(this is how most pay) 2) If the band has allocated money for a post-secondary education fund, then said person can apply for tuition grants from that fund. This money is then taken out of the Band budget which they recieve from the federal government( as I said before, just like a transfer payment). So living on a place that has an 85% unemployement rate it is not hard to see why they do not move south to take advantage of such a wonderful "free" subsidy......... THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT!!!!!!

As I have said to others please check your facts before posting!

P.S. I'm not sure what this all has to do with the so called "edge " that "native" owned airlines enjoy in Canada( which, not one of you has been able to show me). I promise that when someone proves to me that this edge exists ( with cold hard facts and not popularily held myths) then I will apologize to Doc and withdraw my comments.

P.P.S. To set the record straight I never said Doc was a racist, what I said were his comments on this thread were racist. Doc was free to modify or justify his comments but he has done neither.

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:15 pm

chu me wrote:To Rowdy: It seems to me that less than two years ago you were a 200 hr wonder . So I would like to know just how much experience you have had that allows you to post something like this

Whether I am first nations? or just work for one of the "operations has no bearing on the discussion.

My position in the industry has as you say no bearing on the discussion. I do however find it discriminating that you'd immediatly try and belittle my opinion based on flight time and flying experience. You don't need a pilots licence to visit the res. last I recalled. Also be careful who you point fingers at as there is dene in my background.

My question to you is still relevant. How long have you been working for said company. If you were of first nations background I can see how this might or might not have offended you but.. Are you walking around with blinders on? Where do you sit that warrants the comments you make? I'm not echoing docs comments from his years of watching and dealing with such operations and groups. Anyone with half an eye can see it clearly. I'll stand by my comments. If you don't believe in the corruption and foul play made with canadian taxpayers money on the reserves in this great country.. then you have not seen what many others have.

As they say.. don't believe it till you see it. Been there.. Done that.. Bought the t-shirt. Also, quoting anything from the media is a farce as their are huge biases in all outlets of it. Theres a ton of information you'll never see.

My final comments: I'm not saying that the native bands and groups are wrong for what they're doing. They're taking advantage of the situation and so they should. I would too if I had the ability. But can a non first nations backed airline compete head to head with them in the same area? doubtful. The capital for them just isn't there.. nor are the subsidies and bursaries.

Don't take this as a personal attack as it's not. I'd just like to see where you are coming from and for what reasons you believe this way? Maybe it'll bring some better understanding to the discussion.

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:15 pm

Before anyone mentions it, yes education on reserve is FREE. But I don't remember paying to go to elemenary or high school. As for post secondary there are none of these institutions located on reserves in Canada that I am aware of.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:29 pm

chu me wrote:To Confuzed: You wrote
lets see, free education, and free housing (on the reserve) to start. However, many natives are unwilling to leave the north to take advantage of that free subsidy so provided by the government.
Once again someone has posted a myth. When a Treaty/status Indian lives off reserve they are no longer entitled to free housing. If said person goes on to a post-secondary education there are two ways it is paid for 1) they cough up the tuition on their own, just like the rest of us(this is how most pay) 2) If the band has allocated money for a post-secondary education fund, then said person can apply for tuition grants from that fund. This money is then taken out of the Band budget which they recieve from the federal government( as I said before, just like a transfer payment). So living on a place that has an 85% unemployement rate it is not hard to see why they do not move south to take advantage of such a wonderful "free" subsidy......... THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT!!!!!!
.

I guess yxy is an economically depressed place. I have several friends that attended uni on the taxpayers dime. whether it came from band funds, territorial govt or DIAND, it's still out of the coffers we fill. Do I denigrate them for it , NO. OTOH my old boss, a very smart native fellow used to complain that TC was picking on him because he was a native, amazing how fast TC cut and run. I spent my time in the North and also didn't do a normal approach after 2pm friday afternoons due to target practice." one of our planes had several dents from what looked like #4, or #2 birdshot.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:31 pm

chu me....check your PM's.