Global Warming - NOT

This forum is for non aviation related topics, political debate, random thoughts, and everything else that just doesn't seem to fit in the normal forums. ALL FORUM RULES STILL APPLY.

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corporate joe
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Post by corporate joe »

THE TRUTH ABOUT DENIAL

You call yourself a skeptic? You call yourself a free thinker? Think again, you are being duped. You are forfeiting our future, YOUR future for the sake of a few individuals in elite industries. We are the modern day victims of the tactics used by tobacco companies only a few decades ago. For example, any scientist publicly denying global warming is offered 10 000$ (believe it or not). Kind of goes against the ridiculous argument that all the global warming studies done were for extra funding. The truth is that it's the nay sayers that have put the most money in research, trying to discredit them, and trying to show that global warming was not man made. Unfortunately they have failed miserably, and under such overwhelming evidence, they now use confusion tactics on the masses.

I encourage anyone who really wants to learn about what they are actually doing to their planet and their future to read the following article . I have chosen a few passages, you'll find the link to the whole article at the end.
Global warming denial, a well funded and very lucrative industry:

"the denial machine is running at full throttle—and continuing to shape both government policy and public opinion.

Since the late 1980s, this well-coordinated, well-funded campaign by contrarian scientists, free-market think tanks and industry has created a paralyzing fog of doubt around climate change. Through advertisements, op-eds, lobbying and media attention, greenhouse doubters (they hate being called deniers) argued first that the world is not warming; measurements indicating otherwise are flawed, they said. Then they claimed that any warming is natural, not caused by human activities. Now they contend that the looming warming will be minuscule and harmless. "They patterned what they did after the tobacco industry (...)

The reaction from industries most responsible for greenhouse emissions was immediate. "As soon as the scientific community began to come together on the science of climate change, the pushback began," says historian Naomi Oreskes of the University of California, San Diego. Individual companies and industry associations—representing petroleum, steel, autos and utilities, for instance—formed lobbying groups with names like the Global Climate Coalition and the Information Council on the Environment. ICE's game plan called for enlisting greenhouse doubters to "reposition global warming as theory rather than fact," and to sow doubt about climate research just as cigarette makers had about smoking research. ICE ads asked, "If the earth is getting warmer, why is Minneapolis [or Kentucky, or some other site] getting colder?" This sounded what would become a recurring theme for naysayers: that global temperature data are flat-out wrong. For one thing, they argued, the data reflect urbanization (many temperature stations are in or near cities), not true global warming. (...)

There was an extraordinary campaign by the denial machine to find and hire scientists to sow dissent and make it appear that the research community was deeply divided," says Dan Becker of the Sierra Club. Those recruits blitzed the media. Driven by notions of fairness and objectivity, the press "qualified every mention of human influence on climate change with 'some scientists believe,' where the reality is that the vast preponderance of scientific opinion accepts that human-caused [greenhouse] emissions are contributing to warming," says Reilly, the former EPA chief. "The pursuit of balance has not done justice" to the science. Talk radio goes further, with Rush Limbaugh telling listeners this year that "more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is not likely to significantly contribute to the greenhouse effect. It's just all part of the hoax." In the new NEWSWEEK Poll, 42 percent said the press "exaggerates the threat of climate change. Now naysayers tried a new tactic: lists and petitions meant to portray science as hopelessly divided.

(...) The reason for the inaction was clear. "The questioning of the science made it to the Hill through senators who parroted reports funded by the American Petroleum Institute and other advocacy groups whose entire purpose was to confuse people on the science of global warming," says Sen. John Kerry. "There would be ads challenging the science right around the time we were trying to pass legislation. It was pure, raw pressure combined with false facts

(...) The response to the international climate panel's latest report, in February, showed that greenhouse doubters have a lot of fight left in them. In addition to offering $10,000 to scientists willing to attack the report, which so angered Boxer, they are emphasizing a new theme. Even if the world is warming now, and even if that warming is due in part to the greenhouse gases emitted by burning fossil fuels, there's nothing to worry about. As Lindzen wrote in a guest editorial in NEWSWEEK International in April, "There is no compelling evidence that the warming trend we've seen will amount to anything close to catastrophe."

(...) At a hearing last month on the Kyoto treaty, GOP Congressman Dana Rohrabacher asked whether "changes in the Earth's temperature in the past—all of these glaciers moving back and forth—and the changes that we see now" might be "a natural occurrence." (Hundreds of studies have ruled that out.) "I think it's a bit grandiose for us to believe ... that [human activities are] going to change some major climate cycle that's going on." Inhofe has told allies he will filibuster any climate bill that mandates greenhouse cuts. Still, like a great beast that has been wounded, the denial machine is not what it once was. In the NEWSWEEK Poll, 38 percent of those surveyed identified climate change as the nation's gravest environmental threat, three times the number in 2000. After ExxonMobil was chastised by senators for giving $19 million over the years to the Competitive Enterprise Institute and others who are "producing very questionable data" on climate change, as Sen. Jay Rockefeller said, the company has cut back its support for such groups. In June, a spokesman said ExxonMobil did not doubt the risks posed by climate change, telling reporters, "We're very much not a denier." "
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20122975/site/newsweek/ (the article has 6 pages, it continues at the bottom and the other pages must be clicked on).


So you think you're being a free thinker or a rational skeptic? No my friends, you are being duped.
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John Mayer
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Post by trancemania »

Im not attached to this thread anymore.

I said my piece and im done.

Corporate Joe:You should be a lawyer man.
If i ever get into trouble ill ask you to represent me,
Plus you could make a TON of cash.Then you could buy your own plane and fly as global express when/where you want.

You have great skill for DEBATING and you dont give up.
Ill remember that from now on.Ill have to have all my ducks in a row beafore attempting a DEBATE.
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pika
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Post by pika »

Heating up? Cooling down? Getting drier? Getting wetter? Dunno. Maybe here is something we can all agree on?

Image
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You can interpret that however you would like.
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Post by . . »

agreed
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erics2b
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Post by erics2b »

corporate joe wrote:My definition of an idiot, amongst other things, if you read clearly the post where I used that word, is someone who purposely destroys resources.
Excuse me, but what is your day job again?
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trancemania
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Post by trancemania »

Hey Pika,

Where do you get all those nice pics?
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corporate joe
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Post by corporate joe »

Ah yes. The pacifying effect of hot women. Almost makes you want to forget. Even though forgetting is not an option, GW is real whether (weather :p ) we talk about it or not. We can still ignore it if we want (for how long?) but eventually it will catch up to us, no matter how much or how little we talk about it. Think of it as being diagnosed with cancer. It sucks to think about, it sucks to talk about, it sucks because of what it implies, but it won't go away, and it'll only get worst if left untreated.

That being said, everyone has probably had enough of the "debate". Look at who the original poster of this thread was (which by the way has a tendency of posting something simplistic, easily refutable and provocative, and then abandons the thread, only to do the same thing again later) and you'll understand that this debate should not even be, because we are not debating the right things. As I've said before, the only reason I got suckered into this post was because Sulako brought the angle of what we could/should do. That's something that hasn't been beaten to death, and something actually worth looking into collectively.

As far as my "debating skills", I wouldn't make anything of them (much less mention them), because I had the easy role. If you had to debate the roundness of the earth with someone who claims it is flat, you to would have great debating skills because all the facts are on your side. It's easy to prove someone wrong when a whole community of specialists have already done all the proving for you.

Finallt, concerning the last pic, I wonder if what we see through the windows means the aircraft was actually in an airport when that pic was taken, at a gate, or if the scenery was just added on.
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John Mayer
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Post by W0X0F »

Corp Jo

You say that GW is real, but is it? Here is an inconvenient truth to check out. Seems the numbers were cooked.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/colu ... efe0905363
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pika
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Post by pika »

Whoops... Here's another article relating to the link above.

Don't shoot the meesenger... (bold text courtesy of BLASTOR)

Mon, August 13, 2007


Spaced out view of controversy

By EZRA LEVANT



Besides sending up rickety 1970s-era space shuttles and doing damage control for drunk astronauts, NASA's focus these days is promoting global warming hype.

It's smart politics -- a media-savvy attempt by a bureaucratic dinosaur to stay fashionable.

But NASA made an inconvenient admission last week: It has been publishing inaccurate data about the Earth's temperature. The world is not as hot as NASA has been saying it is.

Until last week, NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies claimed that 1998 was the hottest year on record in the U.S.

Goddard's director, James Hansen, had become a media darling for his global warming polemics, especially after he announced his support for 2004 Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry and accused the Bush White House of censoring his pro-Kyoto views.

The fact Hansen remains in his position at NASA, speaks and publishes freely, and a Google search turns up 350,000 mentions of him didn't seem to dampen media enthusiasm for his claim he was being silenced.

Hansen is a more boring version of Al Gore. And like Gore, Hansen says the world has never been hotter, and that doomsday is just around the corner. A visit to the Institute's website shows a partisan, political vocabulary has replaced true science.


Seven of ten of Goddard's latest news releases are about global warming -- odd for a space institute.

But then a funny thing happened. NASA admitted it got its numbers wrong. Last week, they quietly revised their rankings of the hottest years in American history. The hottest year wasn't 1998, as Hansen had said. It was 1934.

Four of the hottest years on record are now in the 1930s. Only three are from the last ten years. And 2000, 2002, 2003 and 2004 were revised downward so much, they're now cooler than the year 1900.

It's tough to make a case modern industry is the cause of global warming when it was hotter 75 years ago. The old press releases haven't been taken down, and no new press release has been issued.

The only way to find out that the Earth has officially become cooler would be to find an obscure link on NASA's website, where the year-by-year data is found.

Steve McIntyre, a Canadian mathematician, discovered NASA's error, and publicized their admission on his website, http://www.climateaudit.org.

Pro-Kyoto hackers quickly shut his site down.

The reason NASA's error persisted so long is Hansen doesn't disclose all of his methodologies and data to the public -- odd, for a scientist who has complained about censorship. Science is about discovering the truth; a real scientist would welcome others to review and criticize his work.

Not NASA with its political agenda.

That hasn't stopped McIntyre from double-checking other global warming "facts."

A grassroots army of volunteers has been taking photos of official weather stations that gather info about global temperature. They show hundreds of government thermometers located a few feet away from air conditioning vents, barbecues and even by someone's backyard pool -- all in violation of scientific standards.

Go to http://tinyurl.com/3x7olf to see the comic way official "climate science" is being conducted.

Real scientists would rejoice at being corrected.

Honest activists would rejoice that doomsday has been called off.

But Hansen and his ilk long ago stopped being real scientists, and Gore and company are too emotionally invested in their new eco-religion to call off the apocalypse because of something as trivial as the facts.
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You can interpret that however you would like.
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Post by Sheila »

This may be a sign something is going wrong at NASA. Seems like they don't actually know how "hot" the atmosphere is.

NASA deciding whether Endeavour crew needs to repair gouge
Last Updated: Monday, August 13, 2007 | 9:36 AM ET
CBC News
NASA could decide Monday if a spacewalk is needed to repair the damage to the belly of the space shuttle Endeavour.

This NASA image shows a gouge in the underside of a wing on the shuttle Endeavour during a photo survey of the craft on Sunday.
A laser inspection Sunday by Endeavour's astronauts revealed that a nine-centimetre-long gouge the shuttle suffered during its launch last week penetrates all the way through thermal tiles on its belly.

Mission managers expect to decide Monday, or Tuesday at the latest, whether to send astronauts out to patch the damage.

Engineers are trying to determine whether the area can withstand the searing heat of atmospheric re-entry at the end of the flight. They will conduct heating tests on similarly damaged samples.

The unevenly shaped gouge, which is slightly more than five centimetres wide, straddles two adjacent tiles and the corner of a third. The inspection, which was carried out on Sunday using the Canadian-made robotic arm Canadarm, showed the damage went through the 2.5-centimetre-thick tiles, exposing the felt material sandwiched between the tiles and the shuttle's aluminum frame.

John Shannon, the head of Endeavour's mission management team, said they'll be using two methods to calculate whether the tile needs to be repaired.

"The first is we'll be able to model it and run our thermal analysis model to understand what the actual heating impact during re-entry would be for damage of this type," Shannon said.

"The second is, we have already made up two-foot by two-foot sections of tile that … mimic the exact same damage on those test articles that simulate re-entry conditions."

If a repair is needed, Canadian astronaut Dave Williams will likely be assigned the job.

Meanwhile, the crew is also preparing for the mission's second spacewalk, scheduled for 11:30 a.m. ET Monday.

Williams and American astronaut Rick Mastracchio are to remove the gyroscope that failed in October and replace it with one Endeavour carried to the station. The broken gyroscope will be stored at the station so it can be brought back to Earth during a later mission.

On Saturday, Williams and Mastracchio successfully installed a roughly two-tonne beam to the backbone of the space station during a spacewalk of more than six hours.

With files from the Associated Press
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corporate joe
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Post by corporate joe »

W0X0F wrote:Corp Jo

You say that GW is real, but is it? Here is an inconvenient truth to check out. Seems the numbers were cooked.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/colu ... efe0905363
Please don't drag me back into this again. I am not the only one saying it is real, it's a scientific consensus. All of our world's top researchers in every field of science say it's real. Separate the science of Global warming from corporate joe. Also Global Warming science is based on a lot more than numbers representing the temperature of the 10 last years. There are thousands of pages of data from different studies, from different fields, from different people all pointing to the same thing.

There's a lot of available information out there, and if you take all of it into consideration (not just selective pieces here and there) there is no way anyone in their right mind can deny that the evidence presented does not justify action.


Remember no science is absolute. You'll find flaws in every science. In terms of evidence global warming has more data backing it than the theory of evolution. Because there are minor flaws and constant adjustments in that theory does that make it not true? In other words if you believe in the theory of evolution based on evidence, then you must believe in global warming (more evidence backing it up). Otherwise your beliefs are not based on facts, and your position is not rational.

What about smoking being bad for your health? There are still studies out there claiming that nothing proves tobacco kills. Do YOU believe tobacco kills? It's all about assessing all the information available and realizing that you need to weigh ALL the information to take a stance, not just look for random information that conveniently confirms what you WANT to believe.
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Post by corporate joe »

Here you go. The same types of science/arguments found in global warming denial. Notice how facts are played upon and "studies" quoted. Random misinformation is put out there to give the impression there is still a debate, so that those who want to believe what's convenient to them have something to hang on to. Enjoy.

Image
One of the "Health Warnings" on cigarette pack in Canada. There is no solid proof for any of the diseases attributed to tobacco - just statistics and speculative associations, but the ministries of health continue to lie to the public, in a dazzling display of intellectual, professional, moral and political corruption.


http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/therap.htm
http://www.forces.org/evidence/prologue.htm
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Post by Icebound »

..

You would think that the 21st would have been the century when the most advanced science in the world would lead North America to a better life.

Instead, we have managed to politicize and corporatize it to a point where truth and fiction get equal billing. And the media ensures that it is impossible to distinquish the two.

Here are another 600 "professional" hacks trying to take another step backward for the 21st century....
http://www.watertechonline.com/news.asp?N_ID=67929


...
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Post by . . »

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corporate joe
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Post by corporate joe »

Cool beatbox. This is guy is also crazy. This is the equivalent of American idol in france.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxN6XwORDnw


ps: more than happy to hijack the thread.
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John Mayer
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Post by the_professor »

endless wrote:professor,

You obviously weren't involved in your schools debate team. CJ is actually spelling out what you need to do here. Do you not understand how absolutely stupid you're beginning to look in this thread?
Back from holidays.

You've got to be kidding me. CJ changes his arguments to dodge whatever counter-arguement is presented.

Anyway, we're all burning up, and the fact that I've left my car idling, air conditioning on, windows open, for the past three months hasn't seemed to have changed anything.

You guys are a bunch of retards.
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Post by xsbank »

Well, I've read all the posts on this thread (it was difficult, some are such mind-numbing claptrap that I kept dozing off) and I still think G.W. is a load of bollocks.

Weather forecasting, economic forecasting, smoking's good for you, smoking's bad for you, drink milk, milk's bad for you, eat lotsa meat, meat gives you cancer, Canada Food Guide and on and on and on, not to mention Y2K and Al Qaida...if you really think that any human is more of an "expert" than any other then you are all idiots.

I say it again, stop watching TV news, stop reading the corporate newspapers and exercise more of your brain. The media only succeeds when it has us all whipped into a frenzy. Who Killed JR?

Practice 'good' consumption - recycle, reuse, turn off your lights, buy a 'smart' car. You'll feel better if you do. That's all.

We, as pilots, are the biggest contributors to mindless resource consumption - multiplying Jettas by jets and people just justifies the fact that none of us can justify our jobs. If all flight ceased tomorrow we would have a lot more oil around to pour into power generators. And on my next vacation I'll have to row. Do we all have to travel, zoom around the planet like we do? The simple answer is no. We do so because we have lots of prosperity right now, that's all.

If you honestly think that any numbers that we can measure from this planet in the past 100 years or so is enough of a sample to draw conclusions on the life of this planet and if you think it makes a particle of difference whether we believe it or not, it doesn't. The fish are nearly extinct, the oil supply is nearly extinct, natural gas is finite. There's just too damn many of us on this rock that some damage won't occur, but in the grand scheme of things, life as we know it will end 'soon' and in a few thousand years or so someone will be picking through our mounds of styrofoam and old Ipods looking for signs of intelligence.

They won't find much on this site.
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Post by Stoptheworld »

YOU MUST GIVE UP EVERYTHING TO SAVE THE PLANET!!! IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT. EVEN IF YOU MUST FREEZE IN THE DARK, YOU MUST DO EVERYTHING TO SAVE OUR PLANET WHICH WILL EXPLODE IF YOU DONT DO SOMETHING.

i on the other hand, being the saviour of the planet, don't have to do anything

http://drudgereport.com/gore.htm
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Post by Hedley »

With all the great porn on the internet, it is something of a mystery to me as to why anyone would spend their time on this stuff :wink:
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Post by North Shore »

Does make you wonder, really, doesn't it? But then again, what do you say to your son when he asks you about it? (GW, not porn :wink:)
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Post by the_professor »

xsbank wrote:If you honestly think that any numbers that we can measure from this planet in the past 100 years or so is enough of a sample to draw conclusions on the life of this planet
Exactly. But don't tell joe, or the tens of thousands of scientists whose salaries depend on the perpetuation of this myth. People will do anything to protect their jobs, including lying and/or inflating the truth.
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Post by grimey »

xsbank wrote:If you honestly think that any numbers that we can measure from this planet in the past 100 years or so is enough of a sample to draw conclusions on the life of this planet
It isn't 100 years of data, it's several hundred thousand years of temperature, CO2 level and atmospheric dust data obtained from ice cores.
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Post by . . »

the_professor wrote:
xsbank wrote:If you honestly think that any numbers that we can measure from this planet in the past 100 years or so is enough of a sample to draw conclusions on the life of this planet
Exactly. But don't tell joe, or the tens of thousands of scientists whose salaries depend on the perpetuation of this myth. People will do anything to protect their jobs, including lying and/or inflating the truth.
Yah and the oil tycoons would NEVER lie to protect their billions would they? Billions of dollars and countless lobbyist groups buying off the government to do what they like. Yet it is the scientists who are to the greedy selfish ones? Get a grip.
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Post by grimey »

the_professor wrote:You've got to be kidding me. CJ changes his arguments to dodge whatever counter-arguement is presented.

...

You guys are a bunch of retards.
Awesome counter-argument. You gonna take your ball home too, because nobody is playing the game you want?
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Post by the_professor »

endless wrote:
the_professor wrote:
xsbank wrote:If you honestly think that any numbers that we can measure from this planet in the past 100 years or so is enough of a sample to draw conclusions on the life of this planet
Exactly. But don't tell joe, or the tens of thousands of scientists whose salaries depend on the perpetuation of this myth. People will do anything to protect their jobs, including lying and/or inflating the truth.
Yah and the oil tycoons would NEVER lie to protect their billions would they? Billions of dollars and countless lobbyist groups buying off the government to do what they like. Yet it is the scientists who are to the greedy selfish ones? Get a grip.
Sure, they might. That doesn't make the lies from scientists any more acceptable.
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