creebec crash oct 25 2007

Braun · Post by **Braun** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:05 pm

Doc wrote:You don't fly a King Air, do you? I will not buy the "all iced up" theory. No way, no how. Ice is the new "catchall" and it's way overused. My French sucks...but I think they were alone? A light King Air will carry a bushel of ice.

No I don't fly a kind air, or at all for a matter of fact. I don't see why you get so offended by this when the first words I said was "this is my opinion" I had a talk with a very experienced pilot about the incident and he also agreed that it was very probable that it could be an icing issue, especially due to the weather reported and the icing reports. So I said it before and i'll say it again just to make it clear it's my opinion, that's all. Enough about it anyways, I agree with everyone anyways, no need to speculate on the cause of the crash.

ettw · Post by **ettw** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:58 pm

Firstly and most importantly, my condolences to the famillies involved. I think all of us agree that whenever a pilot is killed, it is a loss to us all. And no, I don't think that's an exageration.

Secondly, years ago when I was in maintenance the company I was working for did some repair work on a King Air 100 that had been damaged in a hard landing incident in NWO.

When all the work was done we did a run up and discovered that the airframe deice was u/s. The customer advised that they would deal with that once they got the plane back. Some years later I was chatting with another pilot who told me that he had been flying that same day as the 100 and had picked up the most ice he had ever had on an airplane (it was a 99) on the same approach right ahead of the 100. So I wondered whether or not the 100 didn't get the same ice and lo and behold, the boots wouldn't inflate and they found themselves with a jag of ice and just dropped it in from 10 feet.

Thirdly, the foregoing is not my take on this accident, I don't know jack about this accident at YMT and I'm not commenting on it but I related this story just for information sake.

ETTW

vaghanna · Post by **vaghanna** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:59 pm

why dont all you loser pilots and wanna be's just shut the F#@K up and keep your stupid opinions to yourself instead of trying to be investigators and what not. If you wanna offer condolences then do so, if not then shut your traps im sure the friends and family of the people who were involved in this horrific accident do not wanna hear what any of you have to say. you people are arguing and not helping anything so in closing get a life. either post something nice or dont post at all. go argue about whos a better pilot or who did what or who didnt do what someplace else. comprende.

Sincerely,

Family

Braun · Post by **Braun** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:01 pm

I don't really see why you are getting so mad, no one is arguing here. If you are so angered by what is written in this thread then just don't read it, no one is forcing you and I don't see anything disrespectful being posted here.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:22 pm

I hate reading about fellow aviators passing on. Hits close to home, even when you may not have known them.
My prayers go out to the friends and family's envolved.

Fly safe everyone.

Highflyinpilot · Post by **Highflyinpilot** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:35 am

No names released yet? I ask because I know people that work there.

.80@410 · Post by **.80@410** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:45 am

Deleted, due to really poor taste....grow up. D

Trix · Post by **Trix** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:59 am

.80@410

I normally don't get involved in these pissy little girl fights that happen over the internet, but I just can't let this one slide.

I'll have you know that not only is vaghanna a family member but also a former colleague and a true friend of the Capt in question. I am a friend and only wish that I could have flown with Capt. as from what I have been told he was truly one of the greats.

How can you say what you would do if you lost someone... have you? Have you sat sobbing, questioning why him, of all the pilots why him, why this family , and feel that cavernous void in your chest? Have you felt that deep and utter loss? That nausiating ache that wont ease? Because unless you have sat and questioned and screamed why him, bargained with God to make it all go away, and thought about the rest of your life without him, I highly doubt you can say what you would and would not do.

So how about this. Let us, the Friends, Family, Loved ones and Collegues have this thread for Condolences and Well wishings and you (and the others) and TSB can go and hash out the particulars in another thread. If you want to learn from this well then read back through this thread, see what his friends have written, grab a pen and take some notes...you could have learned a lot about flying and how to be a decent human being from the Capt in question.

So with that let us remember that we all grieve in different ways. I will chose to do that by remembering how great he was. He was genuine and honest, and always told it how it was. How determination, high standards and great morals were his core values. How much he loved his brother and Fiance and how I wished that everyone could have someone like him in their lives. He was funny, and not only a fantastic pilot, but an overall good person.

So with that, to the friends and family that are reading this thread, maybe trying to find solace in the good things that people are writing about the crew, I wish you all the best, my sincere love, hopes and prayers are with you during this time of incredible tragedy.

~ Echo Bravo

abeam pointe blanche · Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:03 am

can one of the moderators block this guy please...such indecency belongs in hell...JH I am really sorry such inconsiderate people exist in life...receiving condolences and hearing all the things we loved about him, help the people who are impacted at this time mourn (especially his family), not hearing every geeks two cents about what they think happened...it is ironic how one of the things I truly loved about the captain is how he would put any monkey in their place, and how he would always have your back...JM

fougapilot · Post by **fougapilot** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:21 am

Highflyinpilot wrote:No names released yet? I ask because I know people that work there.

Ditto. I have friends flying the 100 for them in both RH and LH seats and still can't find confirmations.

Anyone with the info, feel free to PM me.

F

outsider · Post by **outsider** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:54 pm

The captain was a good friend of mine a a great pro at his job, if anyone deserved a happy life it was him, all i can say to his family is everyone who worked and got to know him loved him, and vaghanna is right, shut your loser traps, 80% of all the pilots i know are complete dorks. the uniform goes to our heads, it just a job, its not who we are.

JJD,

Widow · Post by **Widow** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:17 pm

lazyboy wrote:widow....why don't you shut up and wait for the grieving to stop before you ask all the questions,sure you lost a loved one!We keep losing friends,family & people we know and love.I have a fellow aviator missing right now and I sure do not need you asking why or how at this time....

I did not ask why or how. I was simply trying to advise you (and the families) to be aware of how the investigation might procede. I do not trust the authorities, and had I known they could not be trusted when I first lost my husband, we might have been able to acheive closure by now. I only hoped to prevent more grief to the friends and families.

TAWS · Post by **TAWS** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:48 pm

To the friends and family of BOTH crew....Godspeed

55+ · Post by **55+** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:49 pm

I did not ask why or how. I was simply trying to advise you (and the families) to be aware of how the investigation might procede. I do not trust the authorities, and had I known they could not be trusted when I first lost my husband, we might have been able to acheive closure by now. I only hoped to prevent more grief to the friends and families.

What a load of sh..... I have been in this industry close to 35 years with a good background in industry, regulatory and service provider. Throw in turbo/jet background as well as a certified Instrument Procedure Designer, I have provided technical info/expertise to TSB on a number of investigations and the good guys/gals within that organization and nothing but the best and most professional in all respects..

Please leave your conspiracy theories to the movies, television and fictional novels…………

tripleittt · Post by **tripleittt** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:04 pm

I think a lot of you have forgotten the subject of this particular thread.

2 fellow aviators have died "at work". They have left behind grieving family members, friends and co-workers past and present.

This thread is not the place for "rants" or little junior high battles. I would like to think that if something were to happen to me, that those whose lives I have touched, would type something here ie a memory of something I may have done or said which touched them in a way that impacted their lives. Then my grieving family and friends could read and feel like they are not alone and that I was a professional and a good person to the end.

RIP - my friends who I have never met....

Flaperons · Post by **Flaperons** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:14 pm

It seems this thread is losing focus. I started it to find out anything I could about the accident, for obvious reasons. If anyone has any real info to provide, please do. If you have a good story about one of the pilots, please share. If you just want to give condolences, feel free. But if it's speculation that you're trying to throw around, start another thread. If you're posting to show your amazing knowledge off all things aviation, please find another audience, maybe they will be interested -- WE ARE NOT.

And how about we lay off widow. She has already apologized. Let's grow up and end the quibbles right now. This is not the place.

ts_fly_guy · Post by **ts_fly_guy** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:25 pm

Gentlemen,

I am the brother of the capt on that flight. This page was fowarded to me by a friend. It was both great and difficult to read the first 2 pages and I was proud to have my father cry of joy knowing he had succeeded in raising a good men by the feedback given from peers and coleages. It is with much dissapointment I write now in a blog I wanted to avoid because I feel someone close has to step in and say lets be men and lets not allow the animosity of the internet to get us to react like children and participate anymore in this nonsense pickering.

We are all men of the aviation world and know the repports take time, lets wait and see what really happened. Your speculations are just that... speculations and yes professionals are investigating. Remember that while you are pilots, mechanics or other specialist some investigators who's sole profession is to find the truth will speak it better than any of us can at this time.

Widow I do feel your pain, at this point more than I was even prepared to face.

As for the other person saying he's got friends in the conpany, well sir go and call your friends. I know my friend's number I would call my friends if I had reason to worry about their wellbeing. I agree with the others to say this is no place for name revealling.

To the family and friend of the copilot my best feelings I know what you are going trough.

Chaxterium · Post by **Chaxterium** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:07 pm

ts_fly_guy

Well said. And on behalf of everyone down south here I am truly sorry for your loss. We all loved and respected him and the last few days in the crew room everyone has been sharing their memories of him. I vividly remember him cleaning out the fridge and cursing everyone who left things in there too long.

I wish that in my short time with him I could have gotten to know him better but nontheless I will try my best to take what I did learn from him and use it to make myself a better pilot and a better person.

My deepest sympathies,

TB

kev767 · Post by **kev767** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:29 pm

.80@410......edited. D

SQ · Post by SQ » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:38 pm

please moderators, give an end to this.

the professional · Post by **the professional** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:04 am

Condolences,

Why do these posts always have " any names, I have a friend there..."

This is not a place for that (in my opinion), and if you really had a friend there you could phone, or e-mail or facebook there is a lot of more PERSONAL technology out there.

hawkerdriver · Post by **hawkerdriver** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:03 pm

WHY DOES'NT REMEMBER HOW THOSE GUYS LIVES INSTEAD OF HOW THEY LEAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flaperons · Post by **Flaperons** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:55 pm

So, one day, PDC comes into the crewroom at the start of his shift. He's all pissed off because somebody ("some f*cking monkey", according to him) keeps stealing the lightbulb from outside his apartment. "How f*cking cheap can you be?" he says (I'm paraphrasing a bit). What does he do? He goes out and buys roofing tar and spreads it all over the ledge you need to climb to get at the lightbulb. He figures if it's a neighbour of his doing the thieving, he'll be able to identify them by the tar on their hands. "This stuff is very difficult to wash off", he assures me with a straight face (very serious expression). After laughing my ass off, I tell him how impressed I am with his creativity. "The next step," again with a very serious expression, "is to put broken glass in the tar. That will teach the stupid f*cking monkey to steal from me." This puts me on the floor. I then ask him if maybe this is overkill. His response:

"This is very serious business."

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:03 pm

Boy, you better let us all know who he caught!

Alex YCV · Post by **Alex YCV** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:25 pm

I often thing that threads like this are a double edged sword, plus sort of a two headed monster.

Grieving is important, and I think everying in or around the business feels some loss (greater or lesser) when an event occurs and people are injured or died as a result. There are always a few numb nuts that will say something a little out of line, and that is sort of par for the course, but it certainly is the other side of the sword.

The problem is every time there is a crash or incident, we all want to know why. The thing on this board that impresses me the most is that most everyone here is always looking to learn more. It is a sad fact that most problems, errors, or bad luck situations in flying usually ends in a tragic way. The attention to learn from what has happened to others to try to avoid the circumstance (or at least understand it better) is impressive. Perhaps learning from those situations is a way that those who pass can help the rest of use to live a little longer.

RIP for those who have gone, it is always too soon.

creebec crash oct 25 2007

why search here and there it is not the time!!!!!