Wj crash YOW

[whipline]

I could not agree more with Jonny about giving credit for the use of reverse thrust in landing distance, dry or contaminated. Just out of curiosity does your performance section of the QRH still give credit for reverse thrust? Ours actually assumes you will be using reverse thrust (gives credit for it) and its an add on penalty if you only have one usable reverser or non, which I have never agreed with.

On a totally different topic, I remember you writing that use of MAX autobrake on a dry runway was prohibited in the NG. I am curious where that information is written. We land on one runway in the summer, captains only landing where max autobrake is required for every landing. I have looked but never come across that info?

Cheers from the pumpkin team.

Whip

[Four1oh]

whipline, I think it's a training 'thing'. they don't want us using max autobrake on a dry runway unless it's an emergency. I'm assuming it's because it's not necessary as autobrake 3 is usually more than sufficient.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Whipline,

The MyBoeingFleet.com website also lists the autobrake landing distance charts in the same manner as yours.
Their chart is informative, as it shows what the expected braking distance will be with both reversers, something we don't have in our books. You just have to assume it will be better than indicated.

The MAX autobrake thing under normal ops may be a WJ thing...I don't know what Boeing's books say about it. I'll have to look it up the next time I have some time and see what they say.

Is the runway you refer to in Canada, down south, or across the pond...?

Ciao

[Ryan Coke2]

Johnny, I am not aware of your 'limitation', published or otherwise. If you find it, I would appreciate the info, but I have not seen that.

I don't have books with me, so I apologize for any errors, but while the normal charts don't give credit for reverse, the non-normal landing charts assume 'max braking and max reverse thrust on operating engines'--this could potentially be a factor, if those were the charts used.

Also, a time when there may be some hesitancy to pull reverse is when the aircraft starts to lose directional control or starts 'drifting' (as per Boeing recommendations)--this may have been an issue with the Air France crew in YYZ as well.

All my support goes out to those guys, but it provides us all an opportunity to learn a little from there situation.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Hey RY2...I just checked and both you and Whipline are correct. No "Boeing" limitation on MAX autobrake on dry runway for normal operations...It's just a WJ limitation. I will have to go back and find that old post and delete the reference or clarify it.

Curious though, if MAX autobrake is required to get in...what kind of departure limitations are there on departing (weight-wise etc) the aerodrome in question, if any? Any brake temp concerns (and do you guys have brake temp indicators?)?

JD signing off...

[Four1oh]

As was told to me, the 737 doesn't have brake or tire temperature monitoring, because it's not a factor on regular operations 99% of the time. The -200 had some obscure limitation on taxi distances in certain temperatures, but unless you taxiied for 1/2 an hour, it wasn't an issue.

The only time the brake cooling charts come out is after a non-normal landing configuration(flaps 15 or less), or an RTO

[Rotten Apple #1]

Four1oh,

Pages 14.10.6 and 14.10.7 of the NG FCOM (600,700,800,900 series: January 25, 2008 Revision date) explain the operation of the brake temperature indicator option.

JD