Air Canada cuts 2000 jobs

[JAHinYYC]

We just want to be treated with a little courtesy and respect.

Personally, I prefer to be ignored and treated with contempt. It reminds me of being at home with my wife.

[alctel]

If you listen to any sane industry experts instead of the fear mongering media, the oil boom will bust eventually, it will never go back down to where it was 5-6 years ago, but the world cannot and will not sustain the price of energy so high.

I agree - there is no shortage of supply at the moment, its the fear of shortage and (thanks to several new laws passed in the US) ease of speculation in commodities that is pushing the cost so high. I think the price will drop sharply in the spring of next year (although as said, it will never go back to how low it was).

[dark dave]

everybody still seems to missing the point...

The service at AC sucks and sucks big!

Until they address that problem, they are screwed...

lets hear what anyone has to say to that?

nothing?

Thats what I thought

[bcflyer]

I will only fly with AC if my clients or employers are footing the bill(always higher than west jet).

I would say it's safe to say that most only fly with AC because they have to, not because they want to.

I predict West Jet owns AC in the next 2 years and becomes a word wide carrier.

Wow you really have drank the koolaid haven't you. Do a quick search on some random flights and you will find plenty of examples of the A/C price being lower than Westjet's.
I happen to have alot of friends and collegues who regularly travel for business and ONLY fly on A/C. So using your own theory of talking to fellow travellers to decide who likes travelling where, it is safe to say that most people on business travel on A/C.
As for your West Jet buying A/C......... Not worth commenting on.....

[SierraPoppa]

everybody still seems to missing the point...

The service at AC sucks and sucks big!

Until they address that problem, they are screwed...

lets hear what anyone has to say to that?

nothing?

Thats what I thought

You appear to be the one missing the point.

How is it that they are screwed? They have a virtual monopoly.

WestJet is not really true competition nor do they want to be.

WestJet was built on a specific model and Air Canada's fleet and operations do not fit with that model.

[dark dave]

how many of you replying to my comments work for AC?

[SQ]

WE all gonna die !
We all gonna die !
quick, lets jump out this ship !

[SierraPoppa]

how many of you replying to my comments work for AC?

Not me, spent thirty years in aviation never worked for an airline.

[dark dave]

How is it that they are screwed? They have a virtual monopoly.

I guess it's the customer who gets screwed

[bcflyer]

everybody still seems to missing the point...

The service at AC sucks and sucks big!

Until they address that problem, they are screwed...

lets hear what anyone has to say to that?

nothing?

Thats what I thought

If the service is so terrible and nobody likes flying with A/C, can you please explain to me the record load factors that A/C has been posting? This obviously isn't about customer service. (there are alot of really good CSA's at A/C by the way who go out of their way everyday to help people out.) We get it. You don't like A/C. Go fly Westjet (a very good airline in itself) and stop your whining.

[SierraPoppa]

How is it that they are screwed? They have a virtual monopoly.

I guess it's the customer who gets screwed

Now you are starting to catch on.

Never have been a fan of Air Canada but WestJet's corny cabin crew act does nothing for me either.

[dark dave]

enjoy your job loss AC employees

hopefully the conservative government isnt so eager to write a check when AC has its hand out or seeks protection from its creditors this time

peace

[KAG]

Dark Dave, I really hope you don't work for WJ, because if you do, you’re embarrassing us. Either way, your being an ass.
My thoughts go out to those envolved. I hope the hit is nothing more then MGMT trying to soften the work groups.
Good luck all.

[dark dave]

dont work for WJ...(shareholder)

great company...they(WJ) even put up with an ass like me!...and make me money...keep up the good work

[SierraPoppa]

dont work for WJ...(shareholder)

great company...they(WJ) even put up with an ass like me!...and make me money...keep up the good work

So other than owning shares in WestJet you know nothing of aviation?

[unregistered]

If the service is so terrible and nobody likes flying with A/C, can you please explain to me the record load factors that A/C has been posting?

Smaller aeroplanes.

[stopsquawk]

I don't get it. Air Canada is forecasting a reduction in capacity in the next year of 2% domestic, 13% transborder, and 7% international, while Westjet is holding to it's plan to increase capacity by 15% over the same period.

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/444540

I think it's impossible for those projections to be accurate since they are so far apart. They fly the same passengers, on much the same domestic structure and are competitive in pricing. Is AC overreacting, or is WJ burying it's head in the sand? If the rising cost of travel keeps folks from flying, won't they will abandon AC and Westjet equally?

I think WJ is posturing itself right now to perhaps sell shares to those investors scared away from AC due to the announcement. But it will be a short-lived. WJ has a habit of breaking the bad news about prices, fuel surcharges,, etc only after Air Canada has softened everyone up for the shock. In a month or so, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Westjet announce a slowdown in it's planned growth. But they'll make sure everyone knows how they held out for a long as they could, and of course how their cuts are not as deep as Air Canada's.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the industry cooling off a bit. We all need a time out. Maybe the revolving door could slow down a bit and those of us engaged in those other aviation pursuits can finally get caught up on the hiring and training.

[Tube Driver]

I believe that in dark dave's world shareholder is another term for employee.

As I sit on the sidelines watching this discussion one thought keeps comming to mind. it is that West Jet is not immune to the market forces that have affected Air Canada. If you West Jet people truely believe that they are then you have indeed partaken in too much KoolAid.

[jjj]

Stopsquawk,

The difference in the projections is solely due to operating margins. WS ca move the same amount of bums inter-city demestically as AC for the same all in ticket price yet make way more money.

Tube driver,

People at WestJet are well aware that they have no immunity to the nasty forces of an economy that is held up by toothpicks and is also on the verge of an energy crisis. They will however be thankfull that they are employed at a place where the fuel surcharge covers the latest operating price hike quite nicely and as a low cost operator we can remain profitable even if oil goes into the 140's.

As far as the kool aid goes - well - will you show up for work on a hot Friday afternoon for work or will you call in sick and spend the weekend at the cottage? A little kool aid goes a long way when the majority of the employees have a vested interest in the success of an airline.

I personally am hoping for a burst in this oil pricing because it affects everybody on the planet.

I am also hoping that AC will avoid going back into bankrupcy protection again because 2009 could easily turn into a bloodbath if AC goes after WS in nasty ways when they don't have to pay their bills. That kind of business is destructive to the whole industry.

[Localizer]

I predict West Jet owns AC in the next 2 years and becomes a word wide carrier.

So WJ uses another airlines business model .. and now they are going to take over the world? ... Apparently you ain't thinking, what im thinking Pinky. But good luck in the mighty quest to paint the world teal ...

The speculators are now predicting oil to level out around $75 bux a barrel ... but we'll see ... they drove the price up, lets see if they can bring it down. But in terms for Airlines and AC ..... don't you think they have an idea on whats going on and can forcast the price of fuel? I can't believe they don't have hedged fuel.

Stick-Shaker .... EI isn't great but its better than nothing (its not suppose to be great) .... and most of us are smart and hard working people, im sure you'd have no trouble finding a side gig that'll give ya some scratch under the table. Sorry for pointing out ONLY AC pilots are whiners ... all pilots are whiners and this site is proof ... but the problem is you're in a desired position, and if you're looking for sympathy from those outside AC ... you're going to have a hard time finding it.

Cheers ...

[paokara]

650 ground crew
500 flight crew which I assume includes flight attendants
400 passenger agents.

This is what I read.

As well as of August 1 of this year Jazz is permanently shutting down it's Hamilton base which flies to YOW and YUL.

[hazatude]

650 ground crew
500 flight crew which I assume includes flight attendants
400 passenger agents.

This is what I read.

As well as of August 1 of this year Jazz is permanently shutting down it's Hamilton base which flies to YOW and YUL.

Jazz pulling out of YHM will mean WestJet bringing more flights in. Mark my words.

[jjj]

WS's plan is to continue business as usual - growing annually by 10% or so. No plans to paint the world Teal.

Localiser - do you have any references about speculators expecting 75 bux for a box of oil? - I haven't seen anything yet - that would be welcome news for everybody.

Haz - I think you are right. Sean Durfy said today at the Meryl Lynch conference that the competitors reduction in domestic capacity will provide opportunity to chip away at market share.



jjj

[W5]

http://money.canoe.ca/News/Other/2008/0 ... 96-cp.html

[Cel]

Jazz has the Ac contract till 2015 but is 100% publicly owned. Jazz has no connection to AC aside from a contract to have 133 aircraft flying regional until 2015. WJ buys more 737s possibly picks up a new type I've heard A380. Wj offers Jazz a joint contract in 2015. Wj cuts Ac at the knees effectively and takes over Ac's routes starting from the bottom up. We have a new king and the court is happy until Wj managers get to greedy forget where they came from and it all happens all over again. Might take more that two years but good luck Wj sometimes we need a shake up.