" Haven'T You Figured Out That Canada Is A Giant Scam? "

[Cat Driver]

Personally I would prefer overt corruption when compared to the clandestine variety we have here in Canada.

You and me both, we are at the bottom of the food chain and unable to offer a suitable bribe to our officials here in Canada as they are high rollers when it comes to money.....remember some stuff that was alledged to have gone on between one of Canadas finest and Air Bus some years ago?

[2R]

If you don't like the government, then don't give anyone a second term until one shows up that you do like. If the whole country did that they would soon get the message too. By not voting you are not heard.

Politicians, especially the bad ones, love people like you.

Sorry ,Rockie but i have to agree with you

[Rockie]

No you don't sound like a prick, you sound like someone who understands the issue.

Canada is drifting closer and closer to Central America North as far as its political system goes.

And to those who would like to suggest I leave...I did....

Cat, that is true.

However, when I got in a tight spot in Nicaragua I was able to bribe my way out because the political figures are hard up for cash down there

Personally I would prefer overt corruption when compared to the clandestine variety we have here in Canada.

You didn't leave Cat, you have a lovely place on Vancouver Island. People who leave...leave.

The political system in Canada, even with its warts, is better than anywhere else because we have honest elections. People who choose not to participate as some misguided gesture of protest are just aiding the very political operators they hate. A politician's favorite voter is one who votes for them. Their second favorite is Boosted, who doesn't bother showing up to vote for the other guy. You're not protesting, you're perpetuating everything you don't like about the system.

People who bitch but refuse to take an active part in the system are just bitching. You will change nothing...ever. If you feel strongly enough that you want change then vote. Or better yet run for office yourself.

[Siddley Hawker]

The reason that Canadians resists a "US-style" health system is because the U. S. spends about $ 2,500 more per person each year on health care than does Canada.

I'm old and cynical enough to believe that without researching the fact, less than one in ten Canadians know the per-capita cost of health care this country, never mind in the US. As far as resisting a US-style system, while Canadians have been beaten near to death by both politicians and the media on the evils of the American system, there are thousands of Canadians being sent to the US every year for treatment because our much-vaunted system is unable to handle them.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ional/home

[BoostedNihilist]

A politician's favorite voter is one who votes for them. Their second favorite is Boosted, who doesn't bother showing up to vote for the other guy. You're not protesting, you're perpetuating everything you don't like about the system.

I find politics like I find social life. You know, your buddy, the guy is great one on one, but you take him to a party and he turns into an asshole and ends up wrecking the place. Should have just left him at home

If I want to be heard, I want it to be what I am saying. Not what some guy I don't agree with or like says. If I don't agree with him and like him, how can I be assured he will represent my personal interests... because when it comes down to it all your vote really is, is a symbol of your preference; who do you think can represent you and benefit you the most.

If I don't think any of them will, or even can I am obligated by principle to not support any of them. This is not perpetuating anything. If the system has no support it will fall apart. Perhaps if more people chose to not support the system we would see real change, or at least a bit of functionalism. By voting these people in time after time it is you perpetuating everything I do not like about the system.

[Rockie]

When systems fall apart places like Somalia and Afghanistan are born.

Since you want the system to collapse what would you replace it with? And please don't say some utopian pipedream that will never happen either. Suggest something realistic bearing in mind there are 30+ million people in this country with an equal say in it...not just you.

[BoostedNihilist]

When systems fall apart places like Somalia and Afghanistan are born.

Chicken or the Egg?

Since you want the system to collapse what would you replace it with?

Send me a letter with checkboxes and let me vote on issues for myself thanks.

Suggest something realistic bearing in mind there are 30+ million people in this country with an equal say in it...not just you

Equal say? how much say do those who vote for the loser get? There is no equal say my friend. The person who voted for the loser is stripped of his 'voice' and never has representation... hegemony is just as bad as hypocrisy.

[Rockie]

Send you a letter with checkboxes? Why should anyone send you a letter? Write your own letter and mail it to Stephen Harper. Don't expect him to drop everything though and put the world according to Boosted. He has literally millions of other people to worry about too.

Sending out a letter asking every single voter to decide on an issue is called a referendum. You want to do that for every single issue? Do you have something realistic in mind to replace the system we already have?

[BoostedNihilist]

Send you a letter with checkboxes?

Yes

Why should anyone send you a letter?

So I can vote on important political issues.

Write your own letter and mail it to Stephen Harper.

I've written that P.O.S. two times and have yet to hear back.

Don't expect him to drop everything though and put the world according to Boosted. He has literally millions of other people to worry about too.

Don't worry rock, under my system, you would get a letter too

Besides, don't you think it a little hypocritcal to chastize me for my lack of participation yet balk at a reasonable suggestion which would add to your own participation? What is it? Do you want to participate, or do you not want to participate?

I figure they already send me letters all the time asking for extra tax dollars... might as well ask me what I think. Ever taken a multiple choice test where you shade in boxes? Think that might work? Hell, we could even put a few issues on one ballot.. I know this idea scares you because it comes with a degree of accountability.. Personally, I don't shirk from accountability... However I also will not be bullied into it by sore losers who can't take criticism when they do not get their own way.

Also, if he was worried about my impact on the world, he would be worried about billions of people, not millions.

Sending out a letter asking every single voter to decide on an issue is called a referendum. You want to do that for every single issue? Do you have something realistic in mind to replace the system we already have?

Actually rockie, it is called democracy, what you are referring to is called a plebiscite, and with todays technology, it is realistic. Come join us in the new age.

de·moc·ra·cy Audio Help /dɪˈmɒkrəsi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-mok-ruh-see] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -cies. 1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

pleb·i·scite Audio Help /ˈplɛbəˌsaɪt, -sɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pleb-uh-sahyt, -sit] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a direct vote of the qualified voters of a state in regard to some important public question.

and why not have a plebiscite for 'important' political issues. You wouldn't catch me bitching about representation then.

He has literally millions of other people to worry about too.

So much for my vote being important eh?

Perhaps if we were helping those useless folks in ottawa out with the important political issues (i.e. voting in plebiscites) they would have time to actually get something accomplished.

Since you want the system to collapse what would you replace it with? And please don't say some utopian pipedream that will never happen either. Suggest something realistic bearing in mind there are 30+ million people in this country with an equal say in it...not just you.

My suggestion met your criteria. It is clear to me you are arguing purely for the sake of argument. However, it could be you don't understand what you have said. My suggestion was in no way unrealistic. Currently, the political will is not there to execute a system like this but the political will will never support this suggestion because it is like asking the ruling class to take a pay cut.. It would be horrific should the regular person actually have representation, because then the laws would be representative of the populous and those who manipulate the legislative/political process to further their own nefarious ends would be cut out of the process being they are the extreme minority.

Elected hegemony is still hegemony.

If you can live with that then you are part of the problem not the solution.

[Rockie]

I actually asked for realistic changes. What you propose isn't realistic so keep trying.

Since you're so fond of dictionaries:

Referendum
"The principle or practice of referring measures proposed or passed by a legislative body to the vote of the electorate for approval or rejection"

But plebiscite will do for this purpose. If a government conducted their affairs as you suggest nothing would ever get done and it would cost billions to do it. You think government's disfunctional now?

[Rockie]

"Elected hegemony is still hegemony."

Oh please!

We elect leaders. I don't want my country led by pollsters.

[Hedley]

We elect leaders

No, we don't. Most of the time we elect thieves, liars
and con-men, which I really don't want my country
led by.

[BoostedNihilist]

I actually asked for realistic changes. What you propose isn't realistic so keep trying.

Sometimes simple is better. Complicated only exists to throw favor in one direction or the other.

It's funny how they all line up for the power

but they all hide behind their perfectly chaotic bureaucratic empires completely insulted from accountability.. you know what it sounds like the perfect deal, maybe I should run for office. It would certainly beat actually working for a living. All I have to do is convince people I am the lesser of two evils and manipulate them into voting with shame

It would be nearly impossible. I can't stand sucking up to rich people and I would have to to get the funding I would need to run a national campaign. I guess that is the first step to becoming a politician though, learning how to disregard your principles in order to gain a position of power.

How about this rockie.. You think this system is perfect? Or do you have any suggestions to offer? So far all I have heard is someone on their perch stripping me of a right because I refuse to prostitute my beliefs.... That sounds entirely anti-democratic to me.

We elect leaders. I don't want my country led by pollsters.

Leaders eh? A leader is distinguished from the population. He should be subservient to the populace, not in a position of power over it. Yet, he is completely unaccountable.. why because we 'chooose' him 'democratically' we should not be electing leaders, we should be electing followers of the true will of the people.. you think the situation we are stuck with now is the true will of the people? My friend, you are selling a flaming bag and I am not going to buy it.

We are working with an old system which hasn't really evolved for awhile... How come everything else has evolved yet we are stuck with political stonehenge?

Because people just put up with it because 'it is so much better than anywhere else'

Yeah, maybe, but it isn't perfect, and we aren't even trying!

Ever try something different with your wife and she liked it?

[grimey]

[Actually rockie, it is called democracy, what you are referring to is called a plebiscite, and with todays technology, it is realistic. Come join us in the new age.

de·moc·ra·cy Audio Help /dɪˈmɒkrəsi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-mok-ruh-see] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -cies. 1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

You bolded the wrong section. Canada is a represented democracy, by way of a democratic constitutional monarchy. It is not a direct democracy.

[Hedley]

(Canada) is not a direct democracy

Why shouldn't it be? Using today's technology, every
taxpaying citizen ought to be able to directly vote on
every bill that spends his hard-earned tax dollars!

And why not? IT'S HIS FRIKKEN MONEY!

Ever try something different with your wife

I would be glad to try something different with
Rockie's wife! j/k Rockie!!

[Rockie]

I would be glad to try something different with
Rockie's wife! j/k Rockie!!

We have never met Hedley and we are not friends. None of my friends would say that even if they were kidding. It is a comment I would expect only from a lowbrow social misfit.

[xsbank]

Lighten up, Rockie! Even someone as thick as me could see that was a joke.

Blair Wilson was the scumsucker that got in in West Vancouver/Sunshine Coast and even the Liberals were put off by his crookedness. Presumably he wasn't sophisticated enough or a high enough 'roller' to satisfy their gang. He has been tossed from the party but he clings to his seat, presumably in order to keep the paycheques rolling in.

[Rockie]

Lighten up, Rockie! Even someone as thick as me could see that was a joke.

Blair Wilson was the scumsucker that got in in West Vancouver/Sunshine Coast and even the Liberals were put off by his crookedness. Presumably he wasn't sophisticated enough or a high enough 'roller' to satisfy their gang. He has been tossed from the party but he clings to his seat, presumably in order to keep the paycheques rolling in.

I know it was a joke. It's the kind of joke a no-class lowbrow social misfit would use.

Do you think everything is appropriate as long as it's said in jest?

[Cat Driver]

You didn't leave Cat, you have a lovely place on Vancouver Island. People who leave...leave.

So how do you figure that my working overseas for the last decade of my career was not leaving?

The reason I own property in Canada is I am a Canadian citizen and now that I am retired I live here because for one thing I am collecting the pittance the government pays me in retirement....or do you think I don't deserve that?

The political system in Canada, even with its warts, is better than anywhere else because we have honest elections.

What is lacking is honest politicians, or is it O.K. for them to be dishonest?

[Rockie]

Leaving for a while is not leaving. You are Canadian, you collect a Canadian pension (well deserved I'm sure), and you live in Canada. You left...but you came back. Glad to have you.

There are some dishonest politicians in Canada, but compared to most other places in the world they are Mother Theresa. You've been to enough places to agree with that.

I'm not against complaining since I send enough letters off myself, and firmly believe someone has to make sure our politicians remember they work for us and not the other way around. But people who think the entire system is rotten and should be tossed aren't thinking very deeply, don't read the papers much and haven't travelled. We elect politicians to keep the lights on, water running, administer our schools, cities, provinces and nation, and defend us and our interests on the world stage. We elect them to do this because we don't want to do it ourselves. They have to make decisions on our behalf and sometimes...yes...they have to tell us what is good for us because as a people we are sometimes too selfish or plain stupid to know ourselves.

If we don't like the job they're doing then we have an opportunity every 4-5 years to do something about it, unlike many many parts of the world.

[BoostedNihilist]

Rockie, I don't have a problem with your point of view.. what I have a problem with is this

But people who think the entire system is rotten and should be tossed aren't thinking very deeply, don't read the papers much and haven't travelled

That is a rather ignorant assumption to make.

I personally believe the system is rotted. Tossed, no, modified, yes.

I have though, done my fair share of all of the above, reading papers and travelling, in fact I leave for the middle east in september, i will also be visiting africa (again) and india. Add that to all of central america, europe and most of s.a. and your assumption that being a homebody correlating with a distain for our political system is offensively false.

Just because something is there and working does not mean that it cannot be improved.

[Rockie]

If I don't think any of them will, or even can I am obligated by principle to not support any of them. This is not perpetuating anything. If the system has no support it will fall apart. Perhaps if more people chose to not support the system we would see real change, or at least a bit of functionalism. By voting these people in time after time it is you perpetuating everything I do not like about the system.

Perhaps I misundertood this statement. Maybe you didn't really mean "fall apart"

You also say "By voting these people in time after time it is you perpetuating everything I do not like about the system.". Who should we vote in instead? Believe me the country is certainly open for suggestions.

[synthpro]

What everybody who complains about taxes fail to reallize is... is that taxes are always relative to disposable incomes.

What I mean is, in a perfect world, if we werent taxed at all, since our disposable income would be twice as much, prices on goods and services would be more expensive too... thus our standard of living would be exactly the same.

You dont believe me??... let me use the housing market as an analogy. Before the 80's, it was more common in a family to have only one bread winner. Thus, the family income was much lower... and the housing market reflected those incomes as prices were 3 times less than they are today.

Now that women are in the work force, and making incomes almost on par to their male counterparts, the family disposable income doubled lets say. So what happened to housing prices...? They also doubled. So we didnt really advance.

To sumarize, the economy and the prices of goods and services always adjust accoring to the Nations average disposable income. This is why we pay higher rates for cell phones over here as compared to Russia.

If we were taxed 90% instead of 60%. What would happen is our salarys over time would drasticly increase, thus we would have the same disposable incomes affording the same things we have today.

If taxes went down overnight to 10%, than prices on goods and services would increase dramiticly, and we would be in the same boat.

Taxes are all relative. Th epoint you have to remeber is.... as long as everyone else is in the same boat as you, than it really doesnt matter how much we get taxed, because its all relative.

Synthpro

[2R]

What everybody who complains about taxes fail to reallize is... is that taxes are always relative to disposable incomes.

What I mean is, in a perfect world, if we werent taxed at all, since our disposable income would be twice as much, prices on goods and services would be more expensive too... thus our standard of living would be exactly the same.

You dont believe me??... let me use the housing market as an analogy. Before the 80's, it was more common in a family to have only one bread winner. Thus, the family income was much lower... and the housing market reflected those incomes as prices were 3 times less than they are today.

Now that women are in the work force, and making incomes almost on par to their male counterparts, the family disposable income doubled lets say. So what happened to housing prices...? They also doubled. So we didnt really advance.

To sumarize, the economy and the prices of goods and services always adjust accoring to the Nations average disposable income. This is why we pay higher rates for cell phones over here as compared to Russia.

If we were taxed 90% instead of 60%. What would happen is our salarys over time would drasticly increase, thus we would have the same disposable incomes affording the same things we have today.

If taxes went down overnight to 10%, than prices on goods and services would increase dramiticly, and we would be in the same boat.

Taxes are all relative. Th epoint you have to remeber is.... as long as everyone else is in the same boat as you, than it really doesnt matter how much we get taxed, because its all relative.

Synthpro

What effect do you think the money laundering has had on the real estate prices ???
The reason i ask is that three of the original members of the coastal growers association are realtors .They were three of the original members who created B.C. BUD in Storm Bay at the hippy commune with some draft dodgers who needed to make a living while running away from the draft. So it will be interesting to see how they will launder their money now that the real estate rules regarding sales have changed.
So what effect will the removal of laundering 63 percent of six billions of cash flow will have on real estate prices now that they cannot launder their illegal money through the market with as much ease as they have in the past .
I am hoping that the prices will fall so that ordinary families can afford ordinary family homes again and communities will be viable again as companies will not have to pay three times the global going rates for the workforce just so people can make their mortgage payments.
Maybe GM would not have to pay such high wages if the price of housing collapses and workers at the plant can buy cheap housing .

[BoostedNihilist]

Perhaps I misundertood this statement. Maybe you didn't really mean "fall apart"

You're right, my bad. Sometimes I get caught up in my own hyperbole...

You also say "By voting these people in time after time it is you perpetuating everything I do not like about the system.". Who should we vote in instead? Believe me the country is certainly open for suggestions.

I would be perfectly happy with someone who says what they mean and does what they say.