System after system after system...

[BoostedNihilist]

Embraer

By saying that talk of energy storage is garbage within the confines of our electric automobile debate you show how truly clueless and ignorant you are. I have come to the conclusion that I am having an argument with someone who is either in grade six, or never made it past. To be frank, you are seriously missing the point and with people like you in the majority I fear for our planetary well being. Your brand of shortsightedness kept people thinking the earth was square for centuries. You have been successfully dumbed down to the point you are beyond help. Your logic doesn't even come close to deserving the merit of the word.

God help us if your brand starts driving this bus.

You know what. You are what I call a Utopian Environmentalist. Well, you're living in a dream world detached from the reality of your so called 'solutions'

Maybe you can plug into the 'grid' and produce yourself a clue.

[xsbank]

Boosted, relax. Sit down, put your feet up, have an expensive Ontario beer (cheaper than BC) and just think - it doesn't make a particle of difference what you write on this topic because the Algoreans and the non-Algoreans don't listen to each other anyway - nobody is listening to you, either.

Even Al Gore doesn't listen to himself as he just bought an expensive waterfront condo.

Everyone has an agenda, everyone. It usually involves money.

Stop reading the papers (especially the Globe) and stop listening to the news. What you don't know won't hurt you, you can do DICK to change it anyway and your blood pressure will fall. I f*cking guarantee it.

[Four1oh]

Rockie, you need to keep it on the thread topic. This thread is about 'CO2 emmisions', not Air pollution, water pollution, landfill issues, or China's filthy coal fired electric generating plants... You see, the science isn't real, it's a smoldering pile of bullshit. We're so worried about some bullshit greenhouse gas which is, to be honest, the least of our worries. Sorry, but CO2 is a fad, just like pet rocks were. Am I 'denying' global warming? No, it's real alright. The science is just not there to prove whether man is having an effect. Did you know the earth is still recovering from the last ice age? Suzuki forgets to mention that. Did you know the sun even goes through cycles of hotter and colder cycles? Did you know most of the 'science' based on the temperature changes in the last 30 years of NASA-supplied data has been admitted to being erroneous? It's true, but it barely made the papers when NASA admitted it. Not one headline. Are humans causing it? I doubt it. Are humans accelerating the inevitable? I'd give it a fair chance that's true, but still not proven yet. Should we reduce CO2? Sure why not, but should this be the number one issue in the world today? Hell no!

Do a search on ocean fish stocks, the rise of algae, the impact overfishing and water pollution(fertilizers, sewage, plastics, toxic chemicals, fish farms) and you'll see the truly terrifying realities.

Or how about man's abuse of antibiotics ranging from medical use to feedlots, and how superbugs are spawning in the waste or misuse of it, and how were ripe for a massive world-wide plague?


If you're a pilot and worried about CO2, you need to quit your job right now, because you're doing the worst thing possible. You're injecting it directly into the upper atmosphere, and doing maximum damage. Quit now. Oh, thought so.

[Driving Rain]

I see your point Tiny.

There are different types of wars and warriors

I've seen wild fires in many different forest and fuel types. I agree some we shouldn't fight because of the reason you point out. That being said wild land fire fighting is a form of environmental maintenance. There as strong arguments for and against where and how much we do.

Some argue it's wrong to try and save a bug infested diseased blown down forest for industry to profit and eventually rid us of, rather than let fire take it. All the while spewing tons and tons of CO2 into the atmosphere further hastening climate change.

The mountain pine beetle is a disaster because the winter temperatures don't drop low enough long enough to kill the larvae not because we fight fire.

[Embraer190]

Embraer 190 said................



"The global aviation sector only makes up about 3% of total CO2 emissions"




Wrong.


Man-made CO2 emissions are perhaps 5% of total C02 emissions; global aviation sector about
3% of that.
One must be extremely careful with statistics, especially when they are used to support or contradict propaganda.

My saviour.

[Embraer190]

Embraer

To be frank, you are seriously missing the point and with people like you in the majority I fear for our planetary well being.

Yes, because I am an advocate for alternative energy. Burn me at the stake you fucking moron.

[Rockie]

Rockie, you need to keep it on the thread topic. This thread is about 'CO2 emmisions', not Air pollution, water pollution, landfill issues, or China's filthy coal fired electric generating plants... You see, the science isn't real, it's a smoldering pile of bullshit. We're so worried about some bullshit greenhouse gas which is, to be honest, the least of our worries. Sorry, but CO2 is a fad, just like pet rocks were. Am I 'denying' global warming? No, it's real alright. The science is just not there to prove whether man is having an effect. Did you know the earth is still recovering from the last ice age? Suzuki forgets to mention that. Did you know the sun even goes through cycles of hotter and colder cycles? Did you know most of the 'science' based on the temperature changes in the last 30 years of NASA-supplied data has been admitted to being erroneous? It's true, but it barely made the papers when NASA admitted it. Not one headline. Are humans causing it? I doubt it. Are humans accelerating the inevitable? I'd give it a fair chance that's true, but still not proven yet. Should we reduce CO2? Sure why not, but should this be the number one issue in the world today? Hell no!

Do a search on ocean fish stocks, the rise of algae, the impact overfishing and water pollution(fertilizers, sewage, plastics, toxic chemicals, fish farms) and you'll see the truly terrifying realities.

Or how about man's abuse of antibiotics ranging from medical use to feedlots, and how superbugs are spawning in the waste or misuse of it, and how were ripe for a massive world-wide plague?


If you're a pilot and worried about CO2, you need to quit your job right now, because you're doing the worst thing possible. You're injecting it directly into the upper atmosphere, and doing maximum damage. Quit now. Oh, thought so.

It is on topic because the pollution you see in the photos comes from among other things the coal fired power plants that you yourself mentioned which are huge CO2 producers. It is on topic because it falls under the larger issue of stewardship of our planet, which hatred of all things Gore and Suzuki blinds you to. It also blinds you to the inevitablility of developing clean sustainable energy that will all but replace fossil fuels. You can't see that it will happen now in a controlled way, or later in a collapsed society when the oil runs out and we haven't got anything to replace it.

You don't see why we should clean up our act just because other things also contribute to global warming, and you mistakingly believe people who are concerned about it are not aware of the other causes. In short, you have your head up your ass and are extremely myopic in your thinking. Your comment about quitting flying proves it. No one has said to shut down society until we fix this number one problem. They are saying we need to fix it, it will be fixed, and the sooner we start the better (and cheaper) it will be for everybody.

[jetmech]

No one has said to shut down society until we fix this number one problem. They are saying we need to fix it, it will be fixed, and the sooner we start the better (and cheaper) it will be for everybody.

This is the problem, the mindless bantering of our Governments and idiots like Dion will cause a shut down of society. Taxing and punishing all of us out of employment is ludacris. $4000.00 SUV tax??? Thats what we build in North America!!! If they want change then implement it over time. I agree those gas hogs are not the best idea, but to tax people out of there livelyhood? If our Government really gave a shit then they would outright ban smoking period, not tax the shit out of it.....but there making billions. Same with this Green movement. This is a game about money, it has nothing at all to do with Green....unless your taking about the Green back. Nothing will get cheaper, only more expensive. In there eyes going Green is a good thing but sorry it's going to be expensive.....but it's our planet so it's worth it....I call bullshit!!! The technologies are invented, it does not need to be expensive at all. What idiot is going to drop three grand on a wind turbine at Canadian tire only to have enough power for a TV? We can put man on the moon, but can't find an alternative fuel source? Again, Bullshit. I have no problem with being cleaner and more respective of our environment, but a group of assholes have figured out a way to milk the majority of society by using a global guilt trip.

[xsbank]

Finally, in all the sh*t, there a re a couple of mushrooms growing.

How many of you Algoreans have sent money to Nigeria to get the lottery winnings?

[Four1oh]

Rockie, you need to keep it on the thread topic. This thread is about 'CO2 emmisions', not Air pollution, water pollution, landfill issues, or China's filthy coal fired electric generating plants... You see, the science isn't real, it's a smoldering pile of bullshit. We're so worried about some bullshit greenhouse gas which is, to be honest, the least of our worries. Sorry, but CO2 is a fad, just like pet rocks were. Am I 'denying' global warming? No, it's real alright. The science is just not there to prove whether man is having an effect. Did you know the earth is still recovering from the last ice age? Suzuki forgets to mention that. Did you know the sun even goes through cycles of hotter and colder cycles? Did you know most of the 'science' based on the temperature changes in the last 30 years of NASA-supplied data has been admitted to being erroneous? It's true, but it barely made the papers when NASA admitted it. Not one headline. Are humans causing it? I doubt it. Are humans accelerating the inevitable? I'd give it a fair chance that's true, but still not proven yet. Should we reduce CO2? Sure why not, but should this be the number one issue in the world today? Hell no!

Do a search on ocean fish stocks, the rise of algae, the impact overfishing and water pollution(fertilizers, sewage, plastics, toxic chemicals, fish farms) and you'll see the truly terrifying realities.

Or how about man's abuse of antibiotics ranging from medical use to feedlots, and how superbugs are spawning in the waste or misuse of it, and how were ripe for a massive world-wide plague?


If you're a pilot and worried about CO2, you need to quit your job right now, because you're doing the worst thing possible. You're injecting it directly into the upper atmosphere, and doing maximum damage. Quit now. Oh, thought so.

It is on topic because the pollution you see in the photos comes from among other things the coal fired power plants that you yourself mentioned which are huge CO2 producers. It is on topic because it falls under the larger issue of stewardship of our planet, which hatred of all things Gore and Suzuki blinds you to. It also blinds you to the inevitablility of developing clean sustainable energy that will all but replace fossil fuels. You can't see that it will happen now in a controlled way, or later in a collapsed society when the oil runs out and we haven't got anything to replace it.

You don't see why we should clean up our act just because other things also contribute to global warming, and you mistakingly believe people who are concerned about it are not aware of the other causes. In short, you have your head up your ass and are extremely myopic in your thinking. Your comment about quitting flying proves it. No one has said to shut down society until we fix this number one problem. They are saying we need to fix it, it will be fixed, and the sooner we start the better (and cheaper) it will be for everybody.

Thanks for completely missing my point. Nice one. LOL, and you call me myopic! Ok then, I'll call you a mindless lemming who just gobbles up the bullshit that moron politicians and activists(both with agendas) feed you. I'd say that's fair. I'm sorry, but it goes back to grade 10 science class and the scientific process to question an assumption and to test a theory(which is all it is), and I don't see any Algoreans doing that. All I see is peer pressure in society trying to undermine people who think for themselves and who question the endless stream of bullshit and who DEMAND some kind of reasonable data to support the claims. You confuse me with someone who doesn't care. I care a whole lot, I just think we have bigger fish to fry than this myopic obsession about CO2.

[Rockie]

I think you're explaining grade 10 scientific procedures to the wrong person. You need to tell the world's entire environmental scientific community because apparently they've been doing it all wrong. How could they have been so stupid?

Your cute "Algorean" phrase tells me you wouldn't know reasonable data if it ran you over in a Hummer. You're just on the "I hate Gore and Suzuki" bandwagon.

[Four1oh]

Actually I'm not. I see Gore for the politician he is and Suzuki for the activist he is. And just to be clear, there is not the overwhelming support from the scientific community that you think.

Just as a quick test, what's your views on growing corn for ethanol production?

[Four1oh]

BTW, whatever happened to the Ozone hole? Oh yeah, that fad was the 90's.

[Rockie]

Yes there is overwhelming support from the environmental scientific community. Paid TV weathermen have come out against it though under the guise of being scientists.

My opinion on corn ethanol? I don't have one because I don't know anything about it. I'm not under the mistaken assumption that today's technology is the answer though. Solar is not up to the job but that doesn't mean it will never be. Wind isn't up to the job but that doesn't mean it won't ever be. Electric cars aren't up to the job yet but that doesn't mean they won't ever be. In fact, I'm willing to bet the true alternative for fossil fuels hasn't even been invented yet. I do know for a fact though that if the world listens to people like you they will stop looking until it's too late.

[Rockie]

BTW, whatever happened to the Ozone hole? Oh yeah, that fad was the 90's.

You're saying the hole in the ozone layer didn't exist?

[Four1oh]

BTW, whatever happened to the Ozone hole? Oh yeah, that fad was the 90's.

You're saying the hole in the ozone layer didn't exist?

No I'm saying the ozone hole crisis was another pile of bullshit. Everyone panicked about the ozone hole but almost no one questioned how long it had been there, if it was even a natural phenomenon. Nope, the lemmings just bought the bullshit that it was all man's fault, case closed. Damn anyone for questioning it.

Edit- if I recall correctly, the first time the ozone holes were discovered was in the 70's, and that was the first time anyone even thought to look...

[Four1oh]

Yes there is overwhelming support from the environmental scientific community. Paid TV weathermen have come out against it though under the guise of being scientists.

do some reading and then tell me how it's only the weatherman being paid by the networks... yada yada yada
start here for instance, a very well balanced article for both sides: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

My opinion on corn ethanol? I don't have one because I don't know anything about it. I'm not under the mistaken assumption that today's technology is the answer though. Solar is not up to the job but that doesn't mean it will never be. Wind isn't up to the job but that doesn't mean it won't ever be. Electric cars aren't up to the job yet but that doesn't mean they won't ever be. In fact, I'm willing to bet the true alternative for fossil fuels hasn't even been invented yet. I do know for a fact though that if the world listens to people like you they will stop looking until it's too late.

http://discovermagazine.com/2009/jan/001
Once again Rockie, you are misinterpreting me. I'm not advocating the status quo, I'm advocating people using their brains instead of being lemmings. The making of fuel out of food is a big one, it won't be long before it'll make it mainstream as to how bad an idea the ethanol fiasco really was. Technology already exists and is being developed, but barely funded in bio-diesel, using humanity's waste to make fuel, using everything from slaughterhouse guts to old tires, yet the focus was on farmers, who, incidentally are a large segment of the population who votes, and is represented by a huge lobbyist group... politics and money, once again.

http://discovermagazine.com/2008/nov/25 ... =biodiesel

you'll see that this isn't the most positive article written on the subject, but keep in mind these guys have had almost no government funding for developing the technology, and I believe if this became a political issue, and the politicians threw more money at it, it could be viable. But no, we have to starve the poor nations of the world by driving corn, grain, and rice prices through the roofs for SUV soccer moms.

[Rockie]

There was a highly touted group of "scientists" who came out against the theories of global warming. Turns out most of the scientist were from some discipline far removed from environmental science, except for the dozens of TV weathermen who were the closest they could get.

I don't see your point with corn ethanol. Does one failure mean everything else now and in the future is bullshit?

What is it that makes you smarter than the scientific community? Have you done the research they have? Is your education and field of expertise more relevant than theirs? Never mind the Gore bashing, what makes you right and them wrong?

[Four1oh]

There was a highly touted group of "scientists" who came out against the theories of global warming. Turns out most of the scientist were from some discipline far removed from environmental science, except for the dozens of TV weathermen who were the closest they could get.

I don't see your point with corn ethanol. Does one failure mean everything else now and in the future is bullshit?

What is it that makes you smarter than the scientific community? Have you done the research they have? Is your education and field of expertise more relevant than theirs? Never mind the Gore bashing, what makes you right and them wrong?

Do some fucking reading and answer the question yourself, lemming. Man, you're a one trick pony in an argument, aren't you? Clickys the linkys, and get back to me later.

[Rockie]

I'll ask this rather simple question again.

What makes you smarter than the combined knowledge of the world's environmental scientific community?

You shouldn't have to clicky any linkies to answer that.

[Four1oh]

I'll ask this rather simple question again.

What makes you smarter than the combined knowledge of the world's environmental scientific community?

You shouldn't have to clicky any linkies to answer that.

I'll say it again. The Scientific community is far from any agreement on this issue. And that's not just crackpots; there are some very well respected ENVIRONMENTAL scientists who are questioning the science of the other side. I read alot about stuff like this, because like you, I do care and I find it interesting(ok, I'm a geek). So, I throw the ball back at you and ask you why you think you're smarter than a very significant percentage of the world's scientific community? Do you see how dumb that sounds? I don't know about you, but I read the National Post AND the Globe and Mail. I've been to church AND science classes. I have come to my opinions through reading many different respectable sources, from both sides of the argument, and when I see a big businessman or a politician telling me how to live my life, I ask myself, 'what's in it for him?'

[Rockie]

I read too. And from what I've read the vast majority of environmental scientists are saying the same thing. A small percentage are disputing man made global warming. I'll go with the majority until the pendulum swings the other way. You again are confusing your hatred for polititians and business people with science. Try not to get them mixed up.

[BibleMonkey]

I reserve the right to stand corrected.

-okay....* goes around the internets correcting people*

BTW, whatever happened to the Ozone hole? Oh yeah, that fad was the 90's.

You're saying the hole in the ozone layer didn't exist?

No I'm saying the ozone hole crisis was another pile of bullshit. Everyone panicked about the ozone hole but almost no one questioned how long it had been there, if it was even a natural phenomenon. Nope, the lemmings just bought the bullshit that it was all man's fault, case closed. Damn anyone for questioning it.

Edit- if I recall correctly, the first time the ozone holes were discovered was in the 70's, and that was the first time anyone even thought to look...

You are right about the fact that the extent of the effect of Anthropogenic C02 on climate is still uncertain; but Ronald Reagan-not an "environmentalist" -but not stupid either- listened to three Nobel prize dudes ( Paul Crutzen, Mario Molina and Sherwood Rowland ) and put the influence of the United States into solving what was a real problem-ozone layer depletion caused by CFC's .

Message to the Senate Transmitting the Montreal Protocol on Ozone-Depleting Substances
December 21, 1987

To the Senate of the United States:

I transmit herewith, for the advice and consent of the Senate to ratification, the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer, done at Montreal on September 16, 1987. The report of the Department of State is also enclosed for the information of the Senate.

The Montreal Protocol provides for internationally coordinated control of ozone-depleting substances in order to protect public health and the environment from potential adverse effects of depletion of stratospheric ozone. The Protocol was negotiated under the auspices of the United Nations Environment Program, pursuant to the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer, which was ratified by the United States in August 1986.

In this historic agreement, the international community undertakes cooperative measures to protect a vital global resource. The United States played a leading role in the negotiation of the Protocol. United States ratification is necessary for entry into force and effective implementation of the Protocol. Early ratification by the United States will encourage similar action by other nations whose participation is also essential.

I recommend that the Senate give early and favorable consideration to the Protocol and give its advice and consent to ratification.

Ronald Reagan

The White House,
December 21, 1987.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_layer

Surprising as it may sound, despite the common image,( "trees cause pollution "-Ronald Reagan -often quoted out of context ) Ronald Reagans' presidency had the most favourable impact on Global atmospheric climate-from a "real science' perspective-unlike, as you say, this unsubstantiated , emotional 'environmentalist ' BS we see today.

Just for the record, I voted against Ronald Reagan in 1980-I voted for the guy that was the only President to drive a hydrogen powered limousine to his inaugural address ( four years earlier ) -ole Jimmy.

When he moved in, Reagan ripped poor Jimmys' solar panels offa the White House roof though-bastard!

Interestingly, this year John McCain blew the dust off of Jimmy Carters 1977 energy plan, changed a few words, as one of his campaign planks.

[Rowdy]

Wow! this is rather entertaining. You know what the best part about these threads are? It's so much like the real world, it's all about agendas and differing opinions. Nobody is right.

I think in all honesty, help the corn growers out, cut the corn syrup production and stop pumping the americans full of diabetes and use it to fuel future vehiculars!! They're gonna grow that corn regardless of it's useage. Oh and hey! then that'll lower the medical costs, fewer folk with later onset diabetes from eating all that terrible trash. Win win! But be careful not to piss off the big oil companies..

Everyone should do their best to reduce the overall usage of resources, just like DR mentioned. Don't waste as much water, reduce the amount of garbage your household produces, reduce the fuel you burn day to day. Not only are you helping out for future generations, for the most part you're also helping yourself and saving some cash!

I'm doing my part. I don't commute daily to work for starters. MOST of my day to day trips from the household are on a bike (see past threads on it's awesomeness) that not only don't burn any fossils, nor emit anything other than good vibes, I also stay in decent shape (read: have lost 22lbs and kept it off since the purchase) I avoid "packaged" food stuffs and pre-prepared articles as well. Thats a lotta plastic, lots of glucose fructose and not to mention all the other preservatives. All of which are either stored in our bodies OR even worse, washed out by the urinary tract into *gasp* the water table. Thank you to all the drug users as well, all the THC and opiates in the water now are causing all kinds of mutations, but nobody has labeled them as pollutants yet. Another reason for tougher drug laws. Bastards.

I make sure theres always a household recycling system in place. It's amazing how much we were throwing out before that actually reuseable or recyclable. like.. sweet jesus! More so in the larger and city centers where the facilities exist for a more diverse range of recycling options. But what fries me, is no matter how much we do on an individual level, the REAL polluters and abusers are big industry and NOBODY is doing ANYTHING about that... Too much money involved right

I honestly don't see it as global warming.. It's climate change, and it has varibles far greater than what we currently see, a lot of which have to do with gravitational forces, sun activity, earth core temperature shifts and all kinds of fun things.

At the end of the day, XS has it best, relax, stop scrutinizing everyday media forum for new fears, do your best to stay healthy and happy.

[BibleMonkey]

And the sun remains silent so far. - No climate change this year so far.

Latest image: http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/rea ... i_igr/512/

When's the climate change/global warming gonna start now? The sun has been this way for a few months now. Global cooling soon?

Possibly; hopefully not lasting beyond 2012. We have Arctic air with temperatures not seen since the mid-1970s -Oymyakon ( Siberia ) -minus 71 F, Krestyakh minus 72.( decimal something) degrees Fahrenheit, a 50-year record low in solar wind pressure, and somewhere between a fifty year to a 100 year solar quietness.

Fire Up You Bitch!
http://www.solarcycle24.com/