Today's Province Newspaper and Transport Canada

[Ranjency Dixonator]

If Navair couldnt make it longterm, nobody will.........

[Chuck Ellsworth]

If Navair couldnt make it longterm, nobody will.........

Why do you think Navair closed their doors?

[Ranjency Dixonator]

If Navair couldnt make it longterm, nobody will.........

Why do you think Navair closed their doors?

Well, I think the owner had enough of all of the bullshit that goes on in 703 on the coast. That combined with headaches from TC and the problems with the unfortunate accidents that happened. I dont know him well at all, bought a plane off him, but have had lots of friends that worked there (and LOVED it). Its rare to hear pilots say good things about past employers.

In my opinion after seeing ALL of the 703 companies come and go over the last 7 years, they were the ones that had it dialed in the most.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

You have summed it up perfectly.

[2R]

Was it not the Calgary /Edmonton Transport Canada inspectors that shut Navair down ?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Was it not the Calgary /Edmonton Transport Canada inspectors that shut Navair down?

No.

[2R]

Was it not the Calgary /Edmonton Transport Canada inspectors that shut Navair down?

No.[/quote

[ more ]
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Pilot killed in crash was set to quit Nav Air, family says
Rob Shaw, Times Colonist
Published: Friday, December 23, 2005
One of the two Victoria pilots who died in a plane crash in Terrace Tuesday night planned to leave the company the next day because of safety concerns, his family says.

Simon Piper, 33, told family he wanted to quit Sidney-based Nav Air Charter Inc. as early as Wednesday, said brother-in-law Walter Langer.

But Piper did not make it to Wednesday. Instead, he and co-pilot Trevor Hardy, 31, were killed when their twin-engine plane crashed and exploded moments after takeoff at Northwest Regional Airport.


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Font:****"How do you come to terms with it?" asked Langer, who said Piper -- who also worked part-time as a Sidney ambulance attendant -- was about to begin 10 days of vacation. "[Wednesday] was just like a shock day. The whole day was surreal."

The cause of the crash is not currently known, and remains under investigation by the Transportation Safety Board. Nav Air voluntarily gave up its operation certificate Wednesday, a move that has grounded its flights indefinitely.

This is not the first crash involving Nav Air. On April 22, a Nav Air plane crashed in the Comox Valley, killing two pilots.

"That really shook him [Piper] up and he knew at that point he had to get out." Langer said.

"He was trying to use his hours and experience to get on with one of the passenger airlines."

Nav Air managing director Bernie L'Hirondelle said he was not aware that Piper planned to quit.

"I have had no indication from anybody that Simon wanted to leave," L'Hirondelle said Thursday evening.

L'Hirondelle declined to comment on Piper's specific safety concerns, saying, "The company has no demands the pilot overload the airplane or fly an unsafe airplane."

He said the families of the two pilots were still grieving and he didn't want to discuss any "second-hand information they may have gotten."

Bill Yearwood, of the safety board, said the two pilots were not considered naive operators. Nav Air has said Piper and Hardy had more than 2,000 hours each of flying experience.

The plane crashed about 6:30 p.m. on Tuesday about 300 metres beyond the airport fence, said Yearwood.

He said it was pointed at 90 degrees from the runway at the time, meaning either there was a problem with the controls after takeoff, or the crew had discovered a problem and was circling around to land.

As Piper's family awaits an explanation, they say his death is especially sad because Piper had always wanted to be a pilot.

His father, an airline accountant, used to take him to see aircraft at Vancouver International Airport when he was two months old. Later, his father bought a flight simulator. When Piper was not working on bodybuilding or his drumming skills, he could be found behind the controls of a virtual plane on the computer, said Langer.

He was also soon to be an uncle. His sister Jennifer (Langer's wife) is about to deliver. Piper had expressed an interest in starting his own family with wife Ann whom he married in 1998, said Langer.

"He had a wicked sense of humour," said Langer. "He was always about the positives."

"He had a way of looking at the good stuff in life."

Piper's death has devastated a close-knit family of three siblings, and parents, who moved to Victoria to be near him while he worked as an ambulance attendant to put himself through flight school, said Langer.

A memorial service is planned for Piper on Dec. 30, 1 p.m., in the Salvation Army Citadel at 4030 Douglas St.

.
Yeah ,looks like he got his fill of Vancouver 703 bullshit as well.Filled his boots in fact.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

What was the final report on that accident, was the cause due to how Navair was operating?

[2R]

Not sure, i have not seen the final report.Maybe widow or CD has a copy ?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I saw it somewhere, maybe in the Aviation Safety Letter?, but I don't remember exactly what the findings were.

[visual approach]

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 5p0298.pdf


haven't read it yet, but here is the TSB report

[marktheone]

I do kind of think that people should be a bit more cautious with what they post in this gossip rag that is avcanada. It's ironic how really there were 6 people who knew what was going on with that aircraft before the crash and after everybody with 300 hours is a caravan expert and is able to pass judgement on what caused the engine failure.

The crash is still a touchy subject and it is not one that people who are totally outside of it should really comment on. . is really the only one who is walking the middle of the road on this one.

And no, I'm not Ranj Gill, or Nick.

[2R]

So how many fatal crashes does it take to prove the rumour mill was right ?

And why would anyone be silent about an accident that was preventable?

[marktheone]

So how many fatal crashes does it take to prove the rumour mill was right ?

And why would anyone be silent about an accident that was preventable?

It takes all or none. In this case the rumour mill knows less than three fifths of f_ck all about it. Of course the accident was preventable. Had there not been crap in the casting of the blade it never would have happened.

Like Ranjency dixonator, or whatever his name is said, unless you want to put your name out there to back up your expert status, I would suggest forbearance might be the best course of action. Apparently you are an expert and conduct yourself as such. Discussion is fine, I'm all for that, but to uncategorically toss crap out in here, on a sensitive topic, is foolish. At best. Stupid at worst.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I wanted the accident report posted here to show that that accident was not the reason for TC keeping Navairs O.C.

I hate reading these reports because the crew were so young.

I will say once again that the pilots flying courier runs can be under a lot of pressure to fly because that sector of aviation has always been like that.

Back to Sonic Blue, what happened to the rumor that the Operations manager was going to sue TC for wrongful dismissal?

Judging by what I understood about his firing by TC it was just another quick easy decision to make the public think they were doing something.

When is TC going to fire Nowzek?

[2R]

Bitter personal attacks are no substitute for debating skills.


If anything that has been said is not accurate please feel free to refute the facts.By trying to engage in personal attacks about credability you demonstrate a bias that makes you vulnerable to the same business philosophy that is typical of the 703 mess at YVR.
Some of the guys i have spoke too have not flown a van in years and are still interested in helping preventing some other poor bastard dying in a preventable death .That is the whole fooking point and if we did not talk about it none would ever have known about just how bad these bastards are.And WHO the fook let them continue killing people.

WE work in a licensed profession ,When you fook up expect to lose your licence.
Transport is much more likely to pull licences NOW on operators who have made Honest mistakes because of the bandits shameless business practice.

[marktheone]

Like I said, I'm all for harmless debate. It becomes potetially harmful when you throw out possible engine handling issues. Debate away. Fact is there was crap in the casting of that blade. Not at all related to Sonics maintenance practices. Safetywatch will verify that as well. I think he has in this thread actually.

Carry on.

[2R]

The engine temp limits had been exceeded prior to the accident but after the overhaul (due to a hot start). The automatic trend monitoring recorded the overtemp but the engine was not removed for inspection because the DOM was not downloading the information. Even if he had recorded the info, the engine would not have been sent for repair because there was insufficent money for such an expense.

The blade failed as a result of an overtemp that was not acted upon.

Source for this info was last week from Cessna themself.

The interesting thing is that the DOM is still working in the industry but has kept all this quiet. He knows who he is but is more concerned about protecting his income then resigning out of disgrace and going into another line of work.

Any links to this source from Cessna ?

If true it may meet the requirements for a conviction for criminal negligence causing death.

[Ranjency Dixonator]

The engine temp limits had been exceeded prior to the accident but after the overhaul (due to a hot start). The automatic trend monitoring recorded the overtemp but the engine was not removed for inspection because the DOM was not downloading the information. Even if he had recorded the info, the engine would not have been sent for repair because there was insufficent money for such an expense.

The blade failed as a result of an overtemp that was not acted upon.

Source for this info was last week from Cessna themself.

The interesting thing is that the DOM is still working in the industry but has kept all this quiet. He knows who he is but is more concerned about protecting his income then resigning out of disgrace and going into another line of work.

Any links to this source from Cessna ?

If true it may meet the requirements for a conviction for criminal negligence causing death.

2R,

Are you (serious)? Edited stl

[2R]

The engine temp limits had been exceeded prior to the accident but after the overhaul (due to a hot start). The automatic trend monitoring recorded the overtemp but the engine was not removed for inspection because the DOM was not downloading the information. Even if he had recorded the info, the engine would not have been sent for repair because there was insufficent money for such an expense.

The blade failed as a result of an overtemp that was not acted upon.

Source for this info was last week from Cessna themself.

The interesting thing is that the DOM is still working in the industry but has kept all this quiet. He knows who he is but is more concerned about protecting his income then resigning out of disgrace and going into another line of work.

Any links to this source from Cessna ?

If true it may meet the requirements for a conviction for criminal negligence causing death.

2R,

Are you EDITED /quote]

No.
What was your point again?

EDITED

[2R]

2R,

EDITED What are you talking about? EDITED

What i was trying to talk about was the sensless deaths caused by criminal negligence by the scumbag operators that you seem to want to defend.
What i was talking about was how sad it is that these three crashes happend when if the rules and standards had of been applied and enforced.Then those young men may not have died in what were PREVENTABLE accidents.
Why is that so hard for you to understand ?
Why is it that some people do not get it.These people were killed because the system broke down.Pilots and Maintenance not writting in the legal logbook defects and events required by law.Then the next poor bastard dies because of CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE.

Some of the posts on here will help get to the truth .

The personal attacks will not improve safety at all for newbie pilots.

When some off the reports were written they did not have all the facts .Facts that are coming out now.Facts that will save lives and make future flights safer for everyone.

[Widow]

Well, the TSB is supposed to identify cause and contributing factors, NOT lay blame.

Not quite sure how you can do that, except, by not reporting ALL the causes and contributing factors.

As for criminal negligence, MT seems to be the only one subject to that avenue. Never an operator.

[Ranjency Dixonator]

2R,

What are you talking about? EDITED

What i was trying to talk about was the sensless deaths caused by criminal negligence by the scumbag operators that you seem to want to defend.
What i was talking about was how sad it is that these three crashes happend when if the rules and standards had of been applied and enforced.Then those young men may not have died in what were PREVENTABLE accidents.
Why is that so hard for you to understand ?
Why is it that some people do not get it.These people were killed because the system broke down.Pilots and Maintenance not writting in the legal logbook defects and events required by law.Then the next poor bastard dies because of CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE.

Some of the posts on here will help get to the truth .

The personal attacks will not improve safety at all for newbie pilots.

When some off the reports were written they did not have all the facts .Facts that are coming out now.Facts that will save lives and make future flights safer for everyone.

EDITED.At what point have I stuck up for a company on here?? If you did the smallest bit of research and read a few of my past posts you would see that 98% are about sticking up for pilots and safety. I would love for a certain company at YVR to get exposed..But everybody is all talk, you re the first to complain and pretend to care on here, but are also the first people dropping off resumes. When pilots grow some balls, they will stop dying because they wont be flying for shit operators......sad but true...

[2R]

This post is not about you .So get over yourself (name removed - widow)

I can understand why you would like to see an investigation in YVR might keep the feds away from the grow ops where you live now EH

[Ranjency Dixonator]

This post is not about you .So get over yourself (name removed - widow)

I can understand why you would like to see an investigation in YVR might keep the feds away from the grow ops where you live now EH

we'll see.....