job hunt.....

[Westward_Bound]

How to do get blackballed? Are future employers allowed to check with TC if a pilot has filed a complaint or not?

Leak it to the media first?

[SkyWolfe]

a good way to get black balled is lying.

[Widow]

Word of mouth Westward_Bound ... if you identify a safety issue, you can get branded a "troublemaker". Nobody wants a troublemaker around. It's a small industry ...

[Westward_Bound]

Word of mouth Westward_Bound ... if you identify a safety issue, you can get branded a "troublemaker". Nobody wants a troublemaker around. It's a small industry ...

Ok, so it's just word of mouth then? There must be an anonymous way to report safety issues to TC without the chance of being found out and putting your job at risk!?!?! I don't understand how such idiots who would ruin someones job for doing something right can work in such an industry?

[Widow]

You can search this forum Westward Bound. What you'll find is that very few people have had good experiences with reporting unsafe practices to Transport. Usually, Transport either doesn't take it seriously because they think you're just disgruntled, or they don't act on it effectively for bureaucratic and/or political reasons. There is also the Securitas reporting through the TSB, but it is a mystery since no one seems to have ever seen any results from that system either.

Unless you work for an operator who puts safety over the almighty buck, or in an union environment, then there is little effective protection of your occupational health and safety.

There are more than a few pilots and AME's (that I personally know of) that have had to cross the country to find work after taking a stand over a safety issue.

[Westward_Bound]

Wow, good.....er....I mean, bad to know

...a mad mad world...


EDIT: Hey widow, just looked at you a little closer and checked that link you have.....you must be one of the ladies I saw on the news the other night talking about that crash near mid island? I'm sorry for your loss....look forward to hearing what you think happened when you get all the info you need(the ladies in the news report said they were just waiting on a few things before releasing to the public).

[anonymity]

One example of pushing the envelope for me was, I tried to take an extra 100 lbs of fuel because of the reported line on cb's between where I was and where I going. The president of the company came down and asked why I was bumping 100 lbs of freight. I told him about the line and he said thats what your reserve fuel is for. I told him that reserve fuel is for UNforseen circumstances and since there is pireps about this line, I can foresee the need to go around some cells. I even offered to delay, but that would mean less trips in the day. Anyhow his response was, you guessed it, "I can find 10 guys tomorrow that would do it"
Regarding being blackballed, as a C.P, I once had a C.P from a company out east call me and tell me, he heard a pilot he had just fired was heading my way, looking for a job.He was calling all the companies he could think of along the way to warn them. I asked him what the guy did and he wouldn't tell me, just stear clear is all he would say. I don't know why, for all I know he was like me and refused to fly broken equipment around or push the wx limits etc...
He never did show up, but I would have given him a chance to explain why he thought a previous employer would go out of his way like that.

[Just another canuck]

Just adding I was called for another interview this morning, but politely declined due to my present commitment.

I've averaged an interview a month for the past five months.

Just trying to pick up the spirits of those who are unemployed right now. Something will come up.

Cheers,

JAC

[anonymity]

Another envelope pushing event, Snagged a vacuum pump and called the C.P as there was no Maintenance at this base he told me to fly it to another base and they'll fix it in the am. Told him that it's now dark and no way hose. He tried to convince me saying, go vfr etc...Still said no it's dark up north no reference to terrain 3000' ceiling, once I'm 5 south I have nothing till maybe 20 from dest.
NO!!!Long story short he slammed the phone down, called me back 10 minutes later and said sun comes up at 5:56 I want you in the air at 5:56. I said no problem since that gives me 10 hours to get proper rest. The next day I was airborne at 0600(oops) Half way there the other vacuump pump failed. I felt vindicated and went outta my way to make sure the C.P knew he tried to kill me that night.

[kevinsky18]

Our first year plumbers, electricians, carpenters, millwrights, mechanics etc make around $75K With some over-time plus full benefits, RRSP contributions, stock share programs and a 2 week on 2 weeks off every month rotation. Journeymen with some overtime make over 100K. And I'm not in Fort Mac if that's what your thinking.

No I can't get you a job.

As for pushing things. My first employer was ra ra safety, conformity, TC rules and regs ect. One day after a training flight a student noticed that the turn bank indicator was "fogged up." looked like moister or oil was getting in-between the glass and dials. Anyways the student wrote a note in the log books after filling them out. I knew it would snag the plane for 30 minutes while we got an AME to write aircraft still airworthy and after so much ra ra I figured that's the way the boss wanted the show run. Well he flipped, both in front of me and the student, "Do you know what that means." He blurted. Both the student and I looked at him like he was nuts. In other words what he was saying was we talk a good talk but whatever you do don't ever snag a plane even if it's a quick fix.

If you work up north flying over gross is the norm period. And I personally know of an Otter crash that was the direct result of over gross. Many suggested that had the pilot been a good one he would have balanced his load better to account for the over gross so it was really all the pilots fault and not the companies for setting the standard of flying over weight. (basically speaks to the mentality up here)

On a regular basis I personally see flights make approaches and land below minimums, the charter company knows this but they want to keep the contractor happy so they turn a blind eye, the contractor knows this but they want to get there crew and supplies in and out so they turn a blind eye. Even the passengers know it but they want out of camp so they cross their fingers and hope the pilots push the weather. And boy you should hear the disparaging remarks when a plane doesn’t get in, especially when another cowboy before them or after them pushes and gets in.

You never hear oh it’s nice that charter company X is safe and waited for the weather to improve I want to be booked on their flights. You hear the opposite. Don’t book me on X book me on Y they always fly no matter how rough the weather is, they must be good pilots. Until of course they crash into a mountain while below minimums and just a touch off the ADF approach.

[kevinsky18]

As for all gloom and doom that’s not my point nor the point of other old timers that have posted here. Anyone up beat about the future just hasn’t been around long enough to know the ups and downs of this industry. Aviation history repeats itself over and over again. We aren’t trying to serve up gloom and doom we are trying to be realistic about the prospects of the future of aviation based on our years of experience.

People need real information to make real choices. If you have been flying for the past 15-20-30 years and you have some positive feedback and stories then please do share. I know there are some out there. But frankly if you’re in your early twenties and only been flying for a few years during the boom bubble then you just haven’t been around long enough to know what the heck you’re talking about. I.e. “Off since November and just now excepting a job.” And you’re happy with this. . . Let me guess, no kids, no mortgage? Let’s see how you feel when you got 2 kids in diapers and house payments in Vancouver and after being off for 6 months you’re offered a job in Ontario with no security. You could take it and leave your family or move them and maybe it lasts 3 months before you’re laid off again and maybe it last 6 or 9 month all the while you’re you don’t know whether to pray that the job continues so you can keep flying or that it ends so you can get back and be with your family.

Sorry for the rant, but blowing smoke up kids asses is what instructors have been doing for years, my self included and I decided long ago not to do it any more. I’ll spell it out the way is and in my opinion this is going to be one of the nastier turn downs in aviation. Will some people continue to fly? Yes absolutely, will some tough it out on ramps and docks and finally get that first flying job? Yep no doubt about that. But in these times we aren’t talking about dedication were are talking about a level of fanaticism that is usually reserved for religious zealots. In other words to make it through a rough down turn, *** as a low time pilot *** you got to be willing to sacrifice everything (Your friends, family, girlfriends, wives children, the comforts of civilization and even the very thing you covet more than any of that the flying) Yes that's what breaks most of the low and mid timers. They can give up everything but the flying it self. Sit on a ramp for two-three years with little chance of logging more than a hand full of hours, hold a job at Tim Hortons while waiting to even get on the ramp and you sooner or later realise despite all your sacrafice you still aren't even in the air. Yes to become a pilot in tough times, if you are low timer, can take more than a couple of weeks, or months but probably a good 5 years before you're flying steady and like I said before you're still making peanuts.

Most aren’t able to do that, no matter how dedicated they think they are right now.

Will someone hop up and say hey I got a job yesterday? Sure but for every one that does there will be 100 that are still not flying or even on the ramp.

Also keep in mind Aviation is the first to feel a recession, the one to feel it the hardest and the last one to recover after a recession.

BTW I too got a couple of job offers this season. But like I said that's after 15 years of flying and goobs of other experience under my belt.

[Just another canuck]

kevinsky18, you are absolutely right about me having no strings attached. And in my first post I mentioned that some people just aren't able to move... that does not mean there are no jobs out there. Personally, I don't feel that's an excuse for not being able to accept employment. That may sound a bit harsh, but we all knew what we were getting into before we did it... and if you didn't, you should have researched it better

My intent was really only to let some of the fresh CPL's, low-timers and young guy/gals thinking of becoming pilots know that this industry isn't as bad as it is sometimes made out to be. Aviation is a career choice that demands passion... and there is no need to give up on your dream because certain avcanadians or recently laid off pilots come on here and bash our industry. Maybe we should start giving out relationship advice as well on here.... for all you low-time guys, etc., do not have kids, do not get married and stay mobile.

Once again, good luck to all who are currently unemployed. I truly hope you all find what you are looking for.

[anonymity]

JAC,
I suggest you re-read my posts, if you're suggesting the I am one of the avcanadians on here bashing our industry. My intent is to open the eyes of potential new pilots and perhaps sway them to re-think maybe a career as a plumber,mechanic,carpenter or lawyer or anything else. I'm willing to bet there are flying clubs still saying there is or will be a pilot shortage soon after the re-bound begins.
You found a job, good for you, I'd also be willing to bet you're not making enough to support a family. If you become a plumber, after 4 years of apprenticing at 20ish dollars an hour and you get your journeyman ticket you would be making in the neighbor hood of 60,000 per year. So what would be a level of a pilots career that we could say is considered journeymanish? 1000hrs yah sounds good, find me a thousand hour pilot anywhere in the world making 60,000.00
I'm not laid off, but after 15 years of this I still don't make what a plumber makes, and I know a plumber who makes alot more than 60,000 closer to 150,000.

[Just another canuck]

anonymity,

I'll first apologize if you feel in any way insulted. That was never my intention.

I don't think you're bashing our industry... but by telling an 18 year old who's thinking of becoming a pilot to consider a career in plumbing, welding, carpentry, etc., etc., I don't think you are doing them any good. It seems you are basing most of this on money. Don't get me wrong, money is important... but it isn't most important.

Imagine having a passion to fly an airplane, but you are swayed to become an electrician by a friend/family member/avcanadian because of something like money. I know there is lots of money to be made in these trades. My old man made 120,000 + dollars a year as a pipefitter/welder, but I don't think he was ever truly happy doing it. He became a lot happier once he became union president... it was more fulfilling I suppose. He quit university because of family and knows to this day it was not a good idea. He would not want me to be a pipefitter... or welder, not because it is demeaning in any way, but because I have absolutely no interest in it, just like he didn't when he started.

I guess I got a little off track there, but the point is money isn't everything and choosing a career path based solely on it is foolish.

And by the way, your figure of 60,000... where did you get that from? I will make very close to that this year and I made more than that last year. I think it's enough to support a family, but I don't have one anyway.

Anyway, for all the youngsters who want to be pilots, go for it. It can be a tough road for some people.... easy for others I guess. I'm still pretty young myself but I do know if I had not gone down the road of aviation, I would be regretting it dearly.

[moniker]

My solution is a cap on the number of CPL's dished out each year. The flight schools would scream bloody murder but we'd all end up so much better off (including the instructors once they found jobs paying them what they are worth). In my fantasy world I'd go so far as to put a freeze on licensing till we got on track. Good getting that in place. Anybody know a bored MP looking for a crusade?

I've got an idea RagBag. How about everybody who's parents paid for their CPL, yourself included, forfeit their licenses, pump my floats & sling bags for a while..

There's an idea that would "reduce the supply" and, luckily, fulfill your fantasy at the same time.

[bob sacamano]

I paid for my flight training, but my parents helped out with my university degree (which I think helped in getting the jobs that I got).

Does it mean I have to go back and slug bags for:

a) More time
b) Less time
c) Equal amount of time
d) sleep with the owner's daughter (again)

[moniker]

If you're half as hot as your avatar Bob, you can sleep with me when you're done pumping my floats.

We'll play Hammer 'n Stickle

[ragbagflyer]

I've got an idea RagBag. How about everybody who's parents paid for their CPL, yourself included, forfeit their licenses, pump my floats & sling bags for a while..

There's an idea that would "reduce the supply" and, luckily, fulfill your fantasy at the same time.

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed Moniker? I guess I better figure out what the 50g's I'm paying off came from since apparently my parents paid for my flight training. In the meantime I'll keep my job and pump my own floats. Good day sir.

[anonymity]

Job Description:
We are currently looking for an experienced Captain on PA 31-350 Navajo, in Saint John, NB.

Position will request to be on call, work some week ends, and perform other duties under the supervision of the Chief Pilot. Overnights can happen but are rare. You will be home almost every night.

You will have to fly single pilot in sometimes challenging weather. Therefore priority will be given to candidates with similar experience.
You will also be required to occasionally fly our PA 34 Seneca.

Minimum requirements:

- Valid Commercial License from Transport Canada
- Valid Category I medical
- Have the right to work in Canada (Citizen or landed immigrant)
- Valid passport with NO restrictions traveling to the US
- Navajo PPC (Current)
- Minimum 500 hours on Navajo, including 250 PIC
- Minimum 1500 hours total time

Advancement to co-pilot position on our King Air 200 will be the next step for the right person

So here we go again job hunters, this time last year 500 hrs multi and 1500 total you would be making 60,000 plus as captain on a king air 200, now the right person could go right seat.
Now I'm not saying 1500 hrs is ideal for captain just pointing out the slope we're on and wondering how soon it will be before 1500 hrs will get you a ramp job.
I should've clued in when my first instructor told me he had 4800hrs in a 172 teaching, not by choice but rather buy nothing else available. His Dad being a senior AC captain and here he is still instructing.
He was soooo burnt out most sessions we ended up at the local watering hole because the wind was too strong, the ceiling too low, etc....

[C-GGGQ]

I've got 400 total time and i've flown all 3 of those aircraft (thats the place where i went to flight school next too ) to be fair the flight school rented the seneca from them for the multi, and being friends with the chief pilot i got a couple of pity flights. Really nice guy really nice birds. 200 is a 2003 i think full glass, navajo is panther conversion. Seneca is turbo'd. All have nice clean new interiors well maintained by the AMO in the flight school.

[Just another canuck]

4800hrs in a 172 teaching, not by choice

You have to wonder why anyone would have that kind of experience by "choice"... But you are right about the slope we are heading down. Fresh CPL's were walking into right seat King Air jobs out of flight school... now the "right candidate" only. Hopefully it's not as bad as we are assuming it will be.

[fly-drink-chicks-music]

well after reading this whole thread i'll slowly slip myself into depression, being half way through CPL training currently

[Westward_Bound]

well after reading this whole thread i'll slowly slip myself into depression, being half way through CPL training currently

Maybe someone should start a pilots support group, cus I'm suprised there aren't many more pilot suicides or drug addicts. This forum is pretty bad tho, it seems to always have the worst news and opinions. The real world at least seems a little happier.

[180]

Maybe someone should start a pilots support group, cus I'm suprised there aren't many more pilot drug addicts.

Alcohol is a drug WB.

[SkyWolfe]

well after reading this whole thread i'll slowly slip myself into depression, being half way through CPL training currently

Maybe someone should start a pilots support group, cus I'm suprised there aren't many more pilot suicides or drug addicts. This forum is pretty bad tho, it seems to always have the worst news and opinions. The real world at least seems a little happier.

Welcome to aviation. enjoy.