Professionalism/phraseology

[square]

B) You want to know what I did last night

Can I really ask that??

[flap16]

Can one of you pilots clarify for me the meaning of "Go ahead your latest".

A) Just wanted to add something to their position and ETA
B) You want to know what I did last night
C) Last METAR or SPECI
D) You want an airport advisory, which I am required to give you anyway

On behalf of all pilots who say that phrase, I apologize. I roll my eyes everytime I hear it too.

[flap16]

The proper way would be to say CYAB at (time) Destination. By broadcasting that it is "NEXT" it infers that it is just the next reporting point, not your destination.

Fair enough.
However, I think in most parts of the country (the north) where this is being used, your next "reporting point" is your destination, and 99.99% of the pilots listening know that.
If it bothers you though, I will stop.

[glorifiedtaxidriver]

I don't care what you say when you're talking to fss or tower or centre or whatever. If its not short, concise, and clear you sound like a tit. My pet peve is that son of a bitch who keeps making sheep noises on 126.7. If I ever find out who you are, I will wring your scrawny neck. I fly all day long and have to listen to you jackasses talking because you like the sound of your own voice. Here's a tip. LISTEN. Then you won't have to make 6 calls between fort hope and webequie when there is no other traffic for miles. More importantly I won't have to listen to them. Also, say where you are first so I can immediately stop listening if you're not applicable. Nothing pisses me off more than listening to an entire long winded radio call to find out you're 100 miles away. And while I'm at it, stop calling down and clear on 126.7. Nobody more than 5 miles away cares. Wow, I feel better.

[lilfssister]

B) You want to know what I did last night

Can I really ask that??

You can...not saying I'll answer honestly though (Like I would mention "reading/editing/deleting posts on avcanada" on a recorded frequency! Nosir!)

[chancellor]

Okay Slats,

First of all I don't have the luxury of inputting waypoints or whatever your getting at. Secondly where I hear this is usually near the point that I am about to descend into the uncontrolled airspace that this so called VFR type is climbing higher into. I would suggest if you don't know what altitude your climbing to pick one and if it isn't suitable make another report and climb or descend to your suitable altitude. Same type of thing that the IFR types do at altitude whether or not your in controlled airspace. Or maybe I should give completely vague reports such as " Descending for lower commencing the approach in five minutes"

[MrMerth]

Lately im growing insanse over 67 calls.

Maybe im just grouchy and had enough of uncontrolled airspace.

1) Conflicting please advise...........really! because if i was in conflict i wouldnt know what to do with out your "please advise"

2) someone makes a 67 call. someone else recognizes the transmitter, and proceed in mindless chit chat for god knows how long. Just say go up a nickel for F*&k sakes.

3) repeat from previous posts, but unnecessary calls! i just heard you 3 minutes ago, we all get you are still at 12000 feet and 12 miles ahead of where you were the last effing time.

4) this is a personal point, but when talking to FSS tell them when youll make your next call please!
ie. "ABC off rwy 27 call you clear"

instead of ABC off rwy 27
FSS "roger call clear"
pilot "roger well call you clear"

i know it seems small, but on a busy MF it really cuts down on the congestion


Thats it for now. im sure ill think of something else to whine about tomorrow

[AuxBatOn]

I always use standard phraseology (including Niner and Decimal). The reason being that, even with an accent (eighter ATC or Pilot), it's easy to understand, especially over the radio, which makes it harder. I noticed that Edmonton Center and Winnipeg Center have a few non-English Canadian speakers.

Don't forget that even if you and ATC are both English, doesn't mean that the crowd listening is also English. Personally, I derive some of my SA with what I hear over the radio. If I can't make up what the guy is trying to say, wether it's because of something trying to make a joke and I don't really get the sense of it, or that the guys uses non-standard phraseology and the tx quality sucks, well, I can't get the SA.

[Slats]

Ok, I'll start calling, "through 3000 for 4500." Then when I approach 4500 and realize it's not yet a suitable altitude I'll call "through 4500 for 6500." Then when I approach that and realize I'm gonna push it up further I'll call again, "through 6500 for 8500." Because that will be much less annoying for all listening.

[scm]

I'm bored so how about these for when you don't know your final altitude.

"XYZ climbing through 3000 ft"
"XYZ 3000 ft climbing"
"XYZ thru 3000 ft for FL600"

Or call your highest intended altitude and call level if you stop below it?
I've seen some pilots get worked up in flight over poor radio calls- it does NOTHING to effect the pilot making the lengthy call and frustration likely makes you a less safe pilot.

..moving on

[Slats]

I've seen some pilots get worked up in flight over poor radio calls- it does NOTHING to effect the pilot making the lengthy call and frustration likely makes you a less safe pilot.

I can agree with that, personally I don't care what phraseology or slang you want to use, doesn't affect me. Just keep it short and sweet and keep the idle chatter off 26.7. I can't help but wonder about the personality of those who get all up tight about another's choice of wording.

[chancellor]

Slats- Not annoying safer.

scm- I agree with your last statement call the highest planned and if your going stop advise.

[square]

Doesn't matter what altitude people are at if they're getting geographically close they should call each other up anyway just for a heads up. So you're 3000 feet above me.. doesn't mean it will stay that way.

[ramjet]

I flew in New Zealand for a year and the first time I replied to an altitude request from ATC and said level at 5.5, I got a blast for using terminology describing a DME distance. He was absolutely right. On another note, when I want to check out the 3-ring circus of Aviation, I always log onto Avcanada. Never have I read such drivel from a bunch of infantile unprofessional louts. It really makes me wonder if the majority of people posting on this sight are actually pilots.

[Cat Driver]

Never have I read such drivel from a bunch of infantile unprofessional louts. It really makes me wonder if the majority of people posting on this sight are actually pilots.

If they are it supports my belief that the dumbing down of aviation is well under way.

[scm]

I flew in New Zealand for a year and the first time I replied to an altitude request from ATC and said level at 5.5, I got a blast for using terminology describing a DME distance. He was absolutely right.

I can agree with this. How busy is NZ airspace?
Here I can go 15 minutes without hearing a single radio call - VFR of course. IFR it's all standard radio calls - different ball game entirely.

[Hedley]

Never have I read such drivel from a bunch of infantile unprofessional louts

That's a big 10-4, good buddy!

[Liquid Charlie]

I haven't been following this thread too closely so if it's already been mentioned I'm just adding to it -- proper phrase for flight levels -- it ain't fl 060 it's fl 60 -- calling level in a radar environment -- and yes the long winded traffic advisories -- and the inability to talk air to air on an MF when FSS is on the field and there are multiple arrivals -- damn it ties the freq up to the point of dangerous.

[Hedley]

I am sure I am in the minority, but I think in VMC that pilots
would often be far better off to turn their radios off, and
spend as much time looking outside as they would have
spent prattling on endlessly on the radio

Canadians talk 'WAY too much on - and are far too dependent
upon - the comm radio.

[Just another canuck]

Canadians talk 'WAY too much

This could just be a coincidence but the one American I flew with overseas, as well as the few who trained there, were among the worst on the radio. "We're uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, 55 miles outbound the, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, 1 uh 75 degree radial. We're uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, headed to Mulia at 10-5. We're uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, 30 miles from uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" and so on and so forth.

My problem is I mumble too much... I know this because I've been mocked on several occasions. It's gets worse near the end of the day when I'm fatigued.

[Liquid Charlie]

Have you ever noticed the habit of guys who always begin with "ahaaaaa" -- I can only think it's from military and using VOX mikes ---

[Lost Lake]

"Traffic advisory on 126.7" C-xxx is blah blah. "Conflicting traffic please advise". Is there some other type of advisory that I don't know about. I really like all the extra verbage on a busy frequency. Besides, if you keep it short and sweet, you'll have more time to add some humour.

[Shiny Side Up]

I am sure I am in the minority, but I think in VMC that pilots
would often be far better off to turn their radios off, and
spend as much time looking outside as they would have
spent prattling on endlessly on the radio

+1

Keep your eyes peeled out there people. The problem with most pilots is they worry too much about talking, not enough about flying. The best advice I can give for uncontrolled airspace flying, is the same I use when riding a motorcycle - Assume that they don't see you and don't know you're there and be prepared to act accordingly. Never assume someone has heard yor radio, if they have never assume they figured out where you're at, and if they have, never assume that they are going to take your well being (or their own) into account with that info they might or might not have registered.

The worst people I find out there are the ones that persist on making a position report - often a lengthy one - every five minutes they fly. A lot of these I find tend to be foreign students who probably have a cue card (having seen such cue cards) that they've been told to read out. Its the equivilent of laying your hand on the horn the minute you leave your drive way and not letting off it until you park, giving the world ample warning "watch out for me!" I'll admit to a guilty pleasure: occasionally I'll respond to one of these type of calls with a simple "Tally Ho" to which will then usually initiate a repeated string of these panicked cookie-cutter position reports.

[Janszoon]

I am sure I am in the minority, but I think in VMC that pilots
would often be far better off to turn their radios off, and
spend as much time looking outside as they would have
spent prattling on endlessly on the radio

I think you are correct in insisting that pilots look outside,
but nothing can replace good radio communication.
Knowing the location of opposite direction traffic helps in
spotting that traffic and makes both parties more situationally
aware, especially when climbing/descending through each
others' flight paths.

Moreover, when you have a closing rate of say 300 kts,
wouldn't you rather know the position of that aircraft
beforehand rather than having only seconds to spot it and
react?

[Shiny Side Up]

Moreover, when you have a closing rate of say 300 kts,
wouldn't you rather know the position of that aircraft
beforehand rather than having only seconds to spot it and
react?

Sure would, though that's the point of the matter. The radio work has to be efficient and to the point otherwise its worthless. At 300 knots, we're looking at 5 miles a minute. Depending on conditions, a range of 5 to 10 miles is possible spotting distance. If one was relying solely on the radio to determine a "conflict" the distance could easily be closed - better be looking out in front of you. With some pilot in addition being very inaccurate with their position reports - being approximately 2.5 miles behind the airplane by the time they finish their radio call, if there is a conflict someone better have spotted someone by this time.

Again, keep your eyes peeled.