Pass Travel charge

[mattedfred]

exactly, weren't the connectors C2 for a long time before 2004? i thought i got C2 when i started with AO in 2000.

[countryhick]

We were C4 for a bit after I joined in 2000, I can vividly remember being stuck in YOW for 12 hrs or so with a toddler and my very impatient father!!!!

I can't recall the exact date, but it was well before CCAA (2002ish?) that Milton gave us the C2's. I still see some of the "MY Airline, My Passes" stickers around

CCAA gave ALL employees a let on service charges for the passes for the duration of their contract, not C2 priority. Two different issues 600.

[whiteguy]

I believe passes changed not long after Jazz was rolled out. Prior to that an AC employee travelling on Jazz/Air Canada Regional was a C3 and a Jazz employee on AC was a C3 but they were C2's on their own metal. Parents were C4's and partner passes were C5's.

[whiteguy]

Yes because thats where the profits are, employee travel.

are you inferring that AC breaks even of even loses money on employee pass travel?

AC does not make a profit on any C2 travel. The C1's they do, in the first year of the C1's they made $1.5 million on them. The next year the number of C1's per employee went from 1 per year to 4 per year.

[mattedfred]

how do you know?

[whiteguy]

how do you know?

On a C2 from YYC to YWG return it's roughly $80 with the taxes. You really profit in there? Full fare is around $350 right now.

[Plim Sole]

On a C2 from YYC to YWG return it's roughly $80 with the taxes. You really profit in there? Full fare is around $350 right now.

Show some common sense!!!

No, a C2 ticket as an isolated event does not make AC a profit.

For the sake of argument, lets say AC charges an extra $40 per Jazz employee per leg in Service Charges starting 2010. Let also say that Jazz employees fly 200,000 legs per year on C2s.

Thats 8 million more than they would have made had they not implemented service charges for Jazz employees.
So thats 8 million of extra money they have just 'found' and it doesn't cost them anything.

So yes... it does make AC money. Either 8 million in extra profit if they have a good year or 8 million less debt if they have a bad year.

Obviously I just made those numbers up but you get my point?

Its a money grab by AC on the very people who just pitched in to help AC avoid bankruptcy a few months ago!!!

Merry Christmas one and all.

[whiteguy]

On a C2 from YYC to YWG return it's roughly $80 with the taxes. You really profit in there? Full fare is around $350 right now.

Show some common sense!!!

No, a C2 ticket as an isolated event does not make AC a profit.

For the sake of argument, lets say AC charges an extra $40 per Jazz employee per leg in Service Charges starting 2010. Let also say that Jazz employees fly 200,000 legs per year on C2s.

Thats 8 million more than they would have made had they not implemented service charges for Jazz employees.
So thats 8 million of extra money they have just 'found' and it doesn't cost them anything.

So yes... it does make AC money. Either 8 million in extra profit if they have a good year or 8 million less debt if they have a bad year.

Obviously I just made those numbers up but you get my point?

Its a money grab by AC on the very people who just pitched in to help AC avoid bankruptcy a few months ago!!!

Merry Christmas one and all.

And how much extra fuel gets burned by having more weight on the aircraft? I guess when you use your numbers, they do make a profit!

The question was asked before, are Jazz employees back at pre CCAA wages with the new contracts?

[4Stroke]

The question was asked before, are Jazz employees back at pre CCAA wages with the new contracts?

As of now, some of the employee groups have ratified new contracts: maintenance, CSAs. Not sure what the specifics are, but generally there were improvements.

The pilot group is in negotiations, and will likely be until spring 2010.

[tellmemore]

Are you serious Plim Sole, a money grab. Is it not old news that you are NO LONGER PART OF AIR CANADA!!! CPA agreement, thats all. The fact that they would treat you as a separate company is mind boggling, uh...no it isnt. The fact that you still travel ahead of any mainline employee because of date of hire is mind blowing to say the least. Helped Air Canada, yeah maybe, but the simple fact is that the CPA agreement was rediculous in the first place and highest one around. I have nothing against the Jazz Pilots, but you are a separate company now so really why would you not have to pay service charges just like a mainline employee should pay on Jazz flights. simple really.

[mattedfred]

separate companies eh bud?

so why did you feel the need to draft the small jet agreement and fight us on replacing FIN 104 with a 16th 705?

might is right eh bud?

how about this; AC gets C2 on AC aircraft and JZA gets C2 on JZA aircraft and the same with every other CPA operator?

and none of us pay service charges

fair enough?

[flyinhigh]

[quote="tellmemore" separate company now so really why would you not have to pay service charges just like a mainline employee should pay on Jazz flights. simple really.[/quote]

Exactly, These fees suck ass. I am a Jazz commuter so it will hurt me. However I don't think...scratch that. How many here would still be pissed if mainline paid on us. That to me is bs. On a mainline flight fine charge us, but on our own aircraft thats a crock. especially when somebody from a SEPERATE airline is not being charged. Yes fine they negotiated that but if it doesn't change to be. your own airline no fee, Other airline Fee. Than that is wrong

cheers

[whiteguy]

Exactly, These fees suck ass. I am a Jazz commuter so it will hurt me. However I don't think...scratch that. How many here would still be pissed if mainline paid on us. That to me is bs. On a mainline flight fine charge us, but on our own aircraft thats a crock. especially when somebody from a SEPERATE airline is not being charged. Yes fine they negotiated that but if it doesn't change to be. your own airline no fee, Other airline Fee. Than that is wrong

cheers

Its your choice to be a commuter not the companies problem. How did you afford to commute when you paid service charges before?

[4Stroke]

Its your choice to be a commuter not the companies problem. How did you afford to commute when you paid service charges before?

With all due respect Whiteguy, that argument always makes me cringe. Sure, some people *choose* to commute to work.

However, as I'm sure you're aware, taking a look in the history books will show that in the last 10 years, mergers, base closures and staffing level changes have made commuting a necessity, not a choice for many employees....Jazz and AC alike. Pick up and move to YYZ/YVR/YYC/YUL you say? Yes boss, I'll be there on Monday, right after I buy a house, find new schools for the kids, new job for the Mrs/Mr, etc.

And sure, we all chose this job knowing where bases are (were??).

The reality is, as evidenced in the US, bases are becoming moveable at management's whim, with no consideration to employees.

So in my opinion, there should be a unified effort on behalf of all employees to ensure commuting policies are fair, and equitable. This service charge change is a big F.U. to all of us, courtesy of management.

[whiteguy]

Its your choice to be a commuter not the companies problem. How did you afford to commute when you paid service charges before?

With all due respect Whiteguy, that argument always makes me cringe. Sure, some people *choose* to commute to work.

However, as I'm sure you're aware, taking a look in the history books will show that in the last 10 years, mergers, base closures and staffing level changes have made commuting a necessity, not a choice for many employees....Jazz and AC alike. Pick up and move to YYZ/YVR/YYC/YUL you say? Yes boss, I'll be there on Monday, right after I buy a house, find new schools for the kids, new job for the Mrs/Mr, etc.

And sure, we all chose this job knowing where bases are (were??).

The reality is, as evidenced in the US, bases are becoming moveable at management's whim, with no consideration to employees.

So in my opinion, there should be a unified effort on behalf of all employees to ensure commuting policies are fair, and equitable. This service charge change is a big F.U. to all of us, courtesy of management.

And yet people have been commuting for years, long before the service charges were excempt. So if you can't afford it now, how did you afford it before? The excemption of service charges always had an expiry date on it and thats what happened, it expired. For some reason mainline employees had theirs extended not sure why and I don't really agree but I don't know the circumstances. I think most unions at mainline actually negotiated it as part of the new contracts. Did your unions try and negotiate this as well?

[Bae146]

I am pretty sure the last guy on the list who lost his seat in yul due to the last reduction will be happy to pay the extra service charge to commute to YYC or YVR. His net income as a FO is probably around 1800 a month...and his new commuting fees will be around 350-400 a month....

Looks like it is not going to be a HAPPY NEW YEAR for everybody in that industrie...

[mattedfred]

whiteguy,

perhaps you don't realize that the amount of the service charge has steadily increased in the last 10 years. the 5 year waiver was nice but the cost of commuting is more expensive now than it ever has been.

it does seem ironic that i will be able to commute cheaper and easier on the main domestic competitor (WJ) of the airline that i provide feed for (AC) as per a CPA

[dream_big]

Are you serious Plim Sole, a money grab. Is it not old news that you are NO LONGER PART OF AIR CANADA!!! CPA agreement, thats all. The fact that they would treat you as a separate company is mind boggling, uh...no it isnt. The fact that you still travel ahead of any mainline employee because of date of hire is mind blowing to say the least. Helped Air Canada, yeah maybe, but the simple fact is that the CPA agreement was rediculous in the first place and highest one around. I have nothing against the Jazz Pilots, but you are a separate company now so really why would you not have to pay service charges just like a mainline employee should pay on Jazz flights. simple really.

Tellmemore....Ill tell you more....you need to seriously get off that ego of yours. how do you even fit through that cockpit door. Show some respect.....jazz was downsized, to help out the situation. Why? Because even though were separate companies we both rely on each other. And as much kids don't wanna admit it, you do rely on Jazz.

Helped Air Canada yeah maybe??? You need to get your facts straight. The renegotiation HAS taken a hard hit on some of our pilots here. Then inconsiderate ppl come on here stating we need to suck it up, were a separate company and deserve service charges AFTER jazz takes a hit for yours? Very rude in my opinion. Funny to think of the the disasters, if the tables were turned around right now..........................

[flyinhigh]

Its your choice to be a commuter not the companies problem. How did you afford to commute when you paid service charges before?

Oh wow, all I suggested is that when Jazz is on Jazz we don't pay, when we are on mainline we pay. When mainline is on mainline they pay, when on Jazz they don't.

Wait, i got it. Your a mainline commuter on jazz and don't want to see a change.

It's amazing how many mainline guys come on here and bash us at jazz. FACE it, any flying we do, and could do.(Embraiers) we can do cheaper, don't believe it look at the numbers. Just deal with the fact that we are all truely ONE company no matter what anyone says.

Just fuel to the arguement now, i truely believe your 21 month contract extension is LABOUR peace. remember Calvin is the one that said pensions or embraers and the company and unions said no. Now he is the CEO, hahah good luck.

Mike

Let the egg tossing begin, actually lets start a new topic

[genetic jack hammer]

Have to ask whats the diff between Jazz and Georgan? Different companys that AC contracted to do a job. (nothing) If anything Georgan guys should be upset that you guys get C2'S and are ahead of them. Not to mention that Jazz employees can bump AC employees. How many companies in the States can do that on the Airlines they are connecting for? NONE

Georgian employees get C2's DOH, along with AC and Jazz. I flew for them for over 8 years, and when the industry was booming (pre-9/11), A LOT of people were hired, hence a lot below me from DOH. The computer system that AC uses can't tell the difference between AC, JAZZ or GGN (or CMA, etc). All it see's it DOH. The only thing that GGN didn't have (it might be changed now) was a jumpseat agreement with AC.

[whiteguy]

Its your choice to be a commuter not the companies problem. How did you afford to commute when you paid service charges before?

Oh wow, all I suggested is that when Jazz is on Jazz we don't pay, when we are on mainline we pay. When mainline is on mainline they pay, when on Jazz they don't.

Wait, i got it. Your a mainline commuter on jazz and don't want to see a change.

It's amazing how many mainline guys come on here and bash us at jazz. FACE it, any flying we do, and could do.(Embraiers) we can do cheaper, don't believe it look at the numbers. Just deal with the fact that we are all truely ONE company no matter what anyone says.

Just fuel to the arguement now, i truely believe your 21 month contract extension is LABOUR peace. remember Calvin is the one that said pensions or embraers and the company and unions said no. Now he is the CEO, hahah good luck.

Mike

Let the egg tossing begin, actually lets start a new topic

Sorry but I'm not mainline and I'm not bashing employees at Jazz. Just stating facts, the exemption had an expiry date and it expired. The unions at mainline negotiated an extension in their new contracts.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most of the Jazz employees that are pissed off were new hires hired during the exemption and have never had to pay the service fees. Am I right? If thats the case then sorry but I don't really care, as far as I'm concerned new hire's should never have been exempt. That includes new hire's at mainline!

For what its worth I hope Jazz employees do get them exemption back.

Merry Christmas!!

[Sage]

FACE it, any flying we do, and could do.(Embraiers) we can do cheaper, don't believe it look at the numbers.
Let the egg tossing begin, actually lets start a new topic

I don't get why you guys are proud of the fact that you are leading the race to the bottom. Are you supposed to be proud of the fact that you would get to fly an aircraft for rockbottom wages when mainlines such as AC and USAirways fly the same aircraft for more? We're not even up the same wage as it used to be. AC used to pay a lot more to fly aircraft with the same seat capacity (DC9). I posed this question to a Jazz captain that brought up this same line of thinking...why stop at trying to get the narrow bodies off of the mainline, why not try to get the 767s and fly it for the same wage as a Dash 8 captain? Wouldn't you want to be paid industry standard? You guys should stop listening to bitter captains...the EMJ will never go to Jazz.

[Sage]

Have to ask whats the diff between Jazz and Georgan? Different companys that AC contracted to do a job. (nothing) If anything Georgan guys should be upset that you guys get C2'S and are ahead of them. Not to mention that Jazz employees can bump AC employees. How many companies in the States can do that on the Airlines they are connecting for? NONE

Georgian employees get C2's DOH, along with AC and Jazz. I flew for them for over 8 years, and when the industry was booming (pre-9/11), A LOT of people were hired, hence a lot below me from DOH. The computer system that AC uses can't tell the difference between AC, JAZZ or GGN (or CMA, etc). All it see's it DOH. The only thing that GGN didn't have (it might be changed now) was a jumpseat agreement with AC.

Ah nope! Georgian do not get a real C2. For boarding purposes, they are given a C2 but of with the date of hire as the date of travel. They do not bump Jazz or AC. Yes, they can tell whether you are 3rd tier. Don't quote me but from what I heard 3rd tier is now C4 or 5.

[jazzpilot666]

it's going to be interesting commuting in my uniform on westjet and explaining to all their pax that i use west jet because they charge me less to get to work.

on a side note...for all you AC people on here bashing jazz, you need jazz. period. we took major hits to save your butts and this is the thanks we get...thanks guys..you're all class as usual. I shouldn't be surprised though, its just like when you constantly need our countries tax dollars to bail you out! This may be you're last one..21 months...getting nervous yet?

[RFN]

Another Jazz vs AC fight: just what I wanted for Christmas...

Actually, all I wanted was Christmas off, but this'll have to do.

We both depend on eachother, and as a commuter, I depend on AC even more.
None of us (JAZZ) want to lead some kind of a race to the bottom. If you didn't have the CPA with Jazz, would you rather watch your flying go to Georgian for even lower pay?

This stupid weenie wagging gets old real fast.

Merry Christmas to all, even the "Big Kids"!