Jazz hour requirement?

[Bede]

In my mind the guys going to Jazz are no different then the 200 hr wonders that work for almost free, buy a ppc, or pay cash upfront for a bond. They all do it for the same reason, to get ahead, make the next step, or build hrs. If we ever want to see a change for the better in this industry we all have to being willing to say no to these poor wages/working conditions. Due to human nature this will never happen though.

Please provide a list of carriers in North America that fly RJ's and DHC-8's that pay more than Jazz.

[swervin]

Horizon does. $121 Hr for Captains on RJ-700, $111 for Capt on DH8-400. If you want to go by purchasing power they all pay more..

[merlin]

Bede,

The fact that most of the carriers pay as poor or worse than Jazz doesn't justify it. It just means that there is a long list of pilots willing to accept it.

[Localizer]

Bede,

The fact that most of the carriers pay as poor or worse than Jazz doesn't justify it. It just means that there is a long list of pilots willing to accept it.

Jazz pilots are working under a CCAA contract. Second, Horizon Air pilots have a 401K with a 1$ for 1$ match up to 10% .. which is nothing more than our version of an RRSP with a little kick! Third, they get a per diem of $1.75 per flight hour. Forth, they have a bare bones benefit plan.

So what do they get other than $121 bux per flight hour? This is why I say pay isn't everything .. pension, benefits, per diem also count.

[merlin]

“It is incredible to us that the management of this remarkably profitable airline refuses to share the proceeds of success with the very people who are responsible for ensuring our company’s continuing longevity—the 1,519 pilots of Jazz Air LP,” Capt. Brian Shury, Jazz MEC chairman, added. “When you rationally consider this, it would be irresponsible to accept the concessions that Jazz is demanding while at the same time its senior executives continue to reward themselves handsomely.”

Sounds like Jazz management also figures you guys are so happy with the current wage there is no need to pay more. They probably come on here and read thier pilots boasting about how great thier lifestyle is and how they can buy a house, pay off debt and travel on the current wage. They probably say why should we pay more... they already love their lifestyle, and the ones that dont... oh well we have a long list of pilots waiting to work for 36K.

[Localizer]

Sounds like Jazz management also figures you guys are so happy with the current wage there is no need to pay more. They probably come on here and read thier pilots boasting about how great thier lifestyle is and how they can buy a house, pay off debt and travel on the current wage. They probably say why should we pay more... they already love their lifestyle, and the ones that dont... oh well we have a long list of pilots waiting to work for 36K.

If you read the rest of that artical you posted, you'll notice that if they don't start some serious barginning at the table, this company will become idle.

I don't disagree that we're due, merlin. I just disagree with the light you cast on us as a group.

[merlin]

I did read the whole thing. Striking doesnt doing anyone any good, most often it takes years to get back what you lost while on strike. Hopefully it doesnt come to that point.

Their are many great people at Jazz, many that have been there long before it was Jazz.

However, some Jazz pilots like to boast about how great there lifestyle is and defend the poor wage. I simply think we should call it what it is.... terrible wage for experienced pilots.

Jazz pilots deserve better, and I really hope they get a great contract. I doubt it though, when there is a very long line of pilots waiting to work under the current conditions.

[mattedfred]

merlin,

Have you or are you currently a member of a trade union?

Have you ever been on strike before?

The majority of Jazz pilots have worked at Jazz longer than it has been Jazz.

The current working conditions are better than where some of us used to work. The current pay is better than where some of us used to work. However, I suspect that the vast majority of us feel that we deserve much more than we are getting.

The WAWCON in our next CBA will not be determined by the perception that there is an endless supply of first officers. It will be determined by the current membership's ability to unify and support our Negotiators and our MEC by providing them with a near perfect Strike mandate.

Maybe we will even obtain WAWCON worthy of your application.

[dream_big]

Jazz pilots deserve better, and I really hope they get a great contract. I doubt it though, when there is a very long line of pilots waiting to work under the current conditions.

why are you on here ranting? Nobody is forcing you to work for jazz! I find most of your comments are completely incorrect. People don't boast about how great their pay is, but they do mention that it could be A LOT worse then it is. ok horizon top captains make $121, but why don't you take a look at the FO pay!!!!!!! Why don't we just wait till the strike vote is done and then will see what kind percentage of jazz employees QUOTE boast about their pay and are happy with the current contract.

And PLEASE do tell me where there is a LONG line of 1500 trained Dash/CRJ crews ready to work on a days notice are??

Lastly, you should NOT be writing on here without the proper facts and knowledge! You are sitting here %(%^#ing about how bad the pay and lifestyle is at jazz, meanwhile ALPA has been working their butts off to get a fair contract that will hopefully make jazz a career airline choice (or on the road to it)! So please stop ranting if your not even willing to use common sense!

[dream_big]

Horizon pay scale for FO starts at $29 and tops at $45. now that is a pretty big difference between payscale for jazz FO's.

[Bede]

I'm not saying that there is not room for improvement in the Jazz contract. However, I find it offensive when someone compares Jazz pilots with 200hr wonders working for free.

[merlin]

First off I never posted anything regarding horizon or what they pay.

dream_big maybe you should read the all the posts, because there is more than one post here from people say how great their lifestyle is at Jazz. One even boast that he bought a house, paid off loans and went traveling all on 36K. I never said there is a line of 1500 trained crews ready to go.... but there is a long line of people waiting to get on that would accept the low pay. Im not ranting, Im simly questioning how great a lifestyle can be in any major city in Canada on 36K. Call it what it is, thats all I'm saying. You say it could be a lot worse.... 36K is pretty bad in my mind, but I'm sure there are a lot of people that will work there for even less.

I understand that they are working hard to try to get a better contract.... thats great hope they get it.

I really wish we could see pilots take a stand as a group to better the working conditions.

[mattedfred]

I really wish we could see pilots take a stand as a group to better the working conditions.

then perhaps you are not paying attention. you do realize that the ALPA pilots at Jazz are currently holding a strike authorization vote?

perhaps you could join us on the picket line?

[Localizer]

perhaps you could join us on the picket line?

Merlin, that sounds like a great idea! .. the colleges will be done for the summer so you can join us on the line and log some job action experience!

[flyinhigh]

Jazz pilots deserve better, and I really hope they get a great contract. I doubt it though, when there is a very long line of pilots waiting to work under the current conditions.

So by that logic, the 1500 pilots here are not going to go on strike cause the company will Fire us, than hire these 200 hr wonder guys willing to work for free. RIGHT.

First off until you see our contract you have NO idea of what our current conditions are, yes our contract now is great for lifestyle, however were voting to strike next month cause we want more in every faset.

For all coming through, there is ALOT more to a Career Company that HUGE pay, Like great benefits, pension, per diems, just to name a few.

Sure you fly and make good money on your little turbine, but I guarantee you DON'T have what we got/and are going to get next month.

[merlin]

This is really silly! Plain and simple. The pay at Jazz is CRAP! And it is crap because their is a whole lot of pilots willing to accept it. I cant figure how you can even argue with this?

Doc was bang on when he post on another topic "Pilots don't make enough money, because they accept poor working conditions, and shitty pay! Of course companies are going to pay crap wages as long as pilots are dumb enough to work for them."

Fire away all you want! I'm done with this one.

[swervin]

Here's one thing to remember, the Jazz pay has not always been crap. It started with ACR Contract #1 in 2001 negotiated after 9/11. It was pretty much rammed down our throats, and we were hoping to renegotiate in 2004 when it expired. Then the gun was put to our heads after the CCAA of 2004 and we have been stuck with this piece of crap for the last 6 years. Look at the pay scales from the late 90's, they were very respectable back then. Time to get it all back.

[Obbie]

CAREER CONTRACT - WE ARE NOT ASKING !!!!!!!

[David Hasselhoff]

Ohhh give me a break. Flying an RJ or a Dash 8 isn't rocket science. Hell most guys out of school with 250 TT get jobs on 37's and 320's in Europe. Hell Ryanair was upgrading 37 Captains with 3000 tt and 500 on type when they were in expansion blowout mode just a few short years ago. That's barely enough to even get you an interview at WestJet. I worked Dispatch and the ramp before getting my first real gig and I'm all for the college program. The more guys don't have to work shitty entry level jobs the better!!!!

-End rant-

Oh....you mean those 250TT guys who pay Ryanair and Easyjet 30,000 euros for the privilege of flying paying passengers around while the overtaxed captains can only shake their heads? Those same first officer who sign a contract as independent contractors with no rights and certainly no union backbone?those same first officers who fail to read the fine print of their self sponsored type rating and get dismissed after three months, now five hundred hour wonders who can barely keep up with the airplane?

Why do they get dismissed u ask? Well they company agrees to pay them as fo's after the three month line indoc if they choose to keep them....but why would they pay you to fly when they can ditch you and make room for the next sucker ready to unload thirty large for a three month fantasyland working vacation?

Assrope,indeed...



Wake up dude, you don't want airlines in Canada taking the European approach to aircrew selection.

[Localizer]

You've been blessed by ... The Hoff ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJQVlVHsFF8

Gives me goose bumps!

[David Hasselhoff]

ahhhh the lost mix tapes...I thought they were gone forever.... like my Knight-Rider days.....Kitt....where are you?

sigged

[Seriously?]

I also wish the pay was better for starting pilots at Jazz, however...

... their requirements for hiring are 1500 hrs and a high school diploma. That's nothing.

A few hours and a high school education! If you want to make great money go back to school.


Anyway...my 2 pennies for what they're worth.

[Localizer]

I also wish the pay was better for starting pilots at Jazz, however...

... their requirements for hiring are 1500 hrs and a high school diploma. That's nothing.

A few hours and a high school education! If you want to make great money go back to school.


Anyway...my 2 pennies for what they're worth.

We all wish the pay was higher .. I'm sure if you made $200G's/yr you'd still wish for higher pay. It is what it is for now and thats the reality. Another reality is that it all WILL change in the next couple of weeks.

1500hrs and a High School Diploma are the minimums ... It doesn't mean thats enough to get an interview ...

I know a fair number of people who spent years in school, and spent tons of money on degrees. All that dedication to end up working in a manufacturing plant. Why? Because the money, benefits, pension, are worth more then the career they studied for. Sad but true.

Cheers.

[whiteguy]

I think everyone situation is different,

Flying 1900 36K, on call, fly 20 hrs a month maybe, no pension, no travel benefits, and no raise for 2.5 years (so far).

Or go to Jazz for 36.5K, schedule, a lot more flying, pension, travel benefits, and a raise every year depending on the contract.

Sorry but guess what I would do, and if I can, I will.

[Seriously?]

I also wish the pay was better for starting pilots at Jazz, however...

... their requirements for hiring are 1500 hrs and a high school diploma. That's nothing.

A few hours and a high school education! If you want to make great money go back to school.


Anyway...my 2 pennies for what they're worth.

We all wish the pay was higher .. I'm sure if you made $200G's/yr you'd still wish for higher pay. It is what it is for now and thats the reality. Another reality is that it all WILL change in the next couple of weeks.

1500hrs and a High School Diploma are the minimums ... It doesn't mean thats enough to get an interview ...

I know a fair number of people who spent years in school, and spent tons of money on degrees. All that dedication to end up working in a manufacturing plant. Why? Because the money, benefits, pension, are worth more then the career they studied for. Sad but true.

Cheers.

People with 1500 hrs DO get interviews, and do get jobs there. College grads with 300 hrs. have as well.

We're not rocket scientists and sometimes we seem to create a slightly over-estimated sense of entitlement...1500 hours and a high school diploma isn't much and that's why it doesn't command a salary some people expect.

If you have a lot more time than those minimums and you're upset and so bitching about the pay...don't apply.



(sorry about all the quote windows...wasn't there a rant about that? )