Man up.

[Nark]

Let me restate this to those of you who failed reading comprehension in high school.

I didn't start this rant to bash her high personal weather limits. I started this thread because she slapped, me and my fellow pilots across the face by accusing us of flying in below limits VFR. She couldn't handle it, she did the right thing and left. However over beers calling pilots out by name wasn't cool.

There is more to this story than I care to share.

As for working on days off: Flight and duty times are different than the Canadian regs.

If this person finds a job landing on nothing but 10 000' paved runways in severe clear, she'll excel.

[rooster]

If you doubt this person reads this board, why are you writing this as if you were addressing it to her? If you want this to serve as a lesson to others, then type it out as such, rather than to throw someone elses image in the fire. You may not be throwing names in, but you may be making that person recognizable to others who may know her or the situation and allowing them to put 2 and 2 together to determine who you're referring to. So don't sit here and tell us how she WAS a great person, but now shitty, because personally I think you are the 'shitty person' for posting this the way you did. Of course there is more to this story, but just because she may not have shown any class over beers, it doesn't mean you have to lower yourself to that same kind of level. I have no problem if you want to use real life scenarios to teach us all a lesson, just do it properly. Don't lower yourself by writing a complaint letter and then call it a lesson to the rest of us.

You're post could have gone like this:

"I just wanted to share something with you that happened recently. There was a situation where a pilot was asked to fly in conditions that weren't unreasonable. The pilot felt he was pushed beyond his limits and walked away from the job with no formal notice of resignation. This caused a disturbance in scheduling which necessitated a pilot, on his days off with out of town guests visiting him, to come in and fly for the pilot who left while accusing the rest of us of flying illegally."

[insert the moral of the story here and what you want us to 'learn' from this]

End you're post with a final thought and leave it at that.

Funny, my post as a lesson too!! Kid's, don't be a jackass like Nark!! Show a little class, even if others don't.

[Mr. North]

Sooooooo... Who do I address my resume too?

[Indanao]

" Rooster " : R U the same guy who landed the waterbomber wheels up on T.V.? If so, would kind like to hear your story on that one.

[toelessjoe]

No need to have a good story,, there is whats called equal opportunity and also a quota system in larger companies, wherein you need to hire more than a few token women and visible minorities,,the most obvious employers with those requirements are the provincial and federal governments! I remember working for Rusty Myers air service in Fort Frances Ontario awhile back, there was a female pilot before me who flew into deteriorating BAD weather and continued on till she finally "gave up" and took her hands off the controls and the beech 18 on floats flew into the trees, all survived rather well, the airplane burned ( a passenger told of this story and her taking her hands off the controls ) She was hired to fly for a small regional airline afterward!!!
When i flew for Rusty , i had an ace up my sleeve and most pilots laughed about it ,,,,, I had set up and practiced a 0-0 approach and landing onto the lake at rustys and KNEW it was only an emergency maneuver BUT it would work well!! I wish she had done the same and didnt wreck that beech and mentally damage 10+ customers. Ironic that the MOST experienced and wise pilots on this forum often refrain from judging another pilot quickly, those who would be in a position to judge, WISELY would rather learn themselves and teach others!

No need to worry about her career, she ended up at Transport. Funny 'cause its true.

[Nark]

Poetic Justice is great.

I'll leave it at that...

[industrypolice]

So what is the point of this thread? To simply vent? Not very professional. This needs to be discussed with the pilot and Transport Canada if she filed a formal complaint, not with strangers on avcanada, because you have no one else to talk to. Nobody forced you to hire the pilot, you should have done your research prior to selecting that pilot for the position, or was it simply a favour to a friend?

[Hedley]

to the self-proclaimed "industry police":

Could you do us all a favour and explain Transport's authority with respect to domestic part 135 ops in Alaska?

Because that's what Nark is talking about.

[Nark]

The point of this thread is don't be a douche bag.

[industrypolice]

to the self-proclaimed "industry police":

Could you do us all a favour and explain Transport's authority with respect to domestic part 135 ops in Alaska?

Because that's what Nark is talking about.

Is Transport Canada not the governing body for aviation? And thats besides the point, good or bad employees happen everywhere, but that is dealt internally in a professional manner, not going on a public message board venting about it...not very professional, who wants to work for a person or a company who goes on a message board and slams employees, so she quit, people quit all the time...Rogers, Bell, TD, RBC I dont think there HR department goes on a msg board to insult previous employees, grow up, someone needs to invest in some HR training

[Indanao]

to the self-proclaimed "industry police":

Could you do us all a favour and explain Transport's authority with respect to domestic part 135 ops in Alaska?

Because that's what Nark is talking about.

Is Transport Canada not the governing body for aviation? And thats besides the point, good or bad employees happen everywhere, but that is dealt internally in a professional manner, not going on a public message board venting about it...not very professional, who wants to work for a person or a company who goes on a message board and slams employees, so she quit, people quit all the time...Rogers, Bell, TD, RBC I dont think there HR department goes on a msg board to insult previous employees, grow up, someone needs to invest in some HR training

"Grow Up"..do you work for Transport? Get out in the real world..then comment. "HR training"..like "never give a sucker an even brake?"..she would never have got a chance at it. Where do people like you come from? Got an issue, write to Anne Landers.

[cdnpilot77]

to the self-proclaimed "industry police":

Could you do us all a favour and explain Transport's authority with respect to domestic part 135 ops in Alaska?

Because that's what Nark is talking about.

Is Transport Canada not the governing body for aviation?

In Canada yes, however, the fact that Alaska, where Nark operates, is not in Canada but rather in the United States puts it under FAA FAR Part 135 operations. Transport Canada does not oversee the entire aviation around the world!

[Hedley]

Is Transport Canada not the governing body for aviation?

I had no idea that TCA's authority extended to completely domestic ops of Alaska, Brazil and Tanzania.

[LegoMan]

Alaska should of been Canadian.

[g5]

There's two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[niss]

Is Transport Canada not the governing body for aviation?

I had no idea that TCA's authority extended to completely domestic ops of Alaska, Brazil and Tanzania.

They wouldn't call it Transport Canada if their authority was only in Canada would they?

[pen1]

Maybe people were flying below legal limits this day or before, maybe they weren’t, maybe the company was pushing and maybe it wasn’t—that part of the story has two sides and we definitely don;’t know them both, and its a whole other discussion about whether people/companies should or shouldn;t be called out when they pull that. Too bad that you used this forum to bash an individual, and one who may or may not have had legitimate concerns, but we’ll never know since she (alaska pilot) probably doesnt read avcanada.

Even if it was legal that day, maybe some people should have been flying and some not as much. What everyone (and especially with coastal flying background) knows is that technically legal doesn’t necessarily make for safe flying—depends on experience, airports, load, weather blowing in, etc.etc.etc. And there are all kinds of reasons that someone should make the wise decision not to fly in a particular case—not just weather, but mechanical, not enough training, pressure from the company, personal issues, etc that you might not know about. If conditions are marginal (and maybe getting worse in this case, which should be a headsup in any coastal/mountainous area) or a pilot is not safe to fly for whatever reason, that person shouldn’t fly just because other people with more experience or less common sense made it an hour ago or yesterday or back in the day. If thats how you think about it, I definitely don’t want to fly with you as a passenger. Its that kind of attitude that gets pilots and their passengers killed, and I think we could all use a little less of that (sounds like Alaska could too this year).

Sure its better to give notice whenever possible—better for the company, passenger scheduling, any future career in aviation, etc—but its even better to avoid problems by not flying when you’re not safe to fly. If this pilot felt she was being pushed by the company or coworkers to fly when it wasn’t safe (whether you think that’s correct or not) FOR HER, then quitting was probably the only solution she saw. If the person really wasn’t ready for the job like you thought and the company could see that, it should be the company’s responsibility to invest in more screening before hiring or more training, or just help move the pilot on to another company/flying situation/career before there are issues. I question why you didn’t call on the company to “man up” and take some steps to make sure this situation didn’t happen. Just like no pilot should want to fly for an unsafe company, no company should want an unsafe pilot flying their planes and passengers—they have a responsibility to acknowledge and do something about a problem that it sounds like everyone saw, before a pilot feels things are bad enough to walk off the job. At least the pilot took some initiative to make sure that she wasn’t flying unsafe for her (no matter if that was safe/legal for anyone else, which only you guys know)—a move that you seem to think should end her career as a pilot, but really shouldn;t if its the responsible decision.

Too bad your day off was interrupted but unless I’m wrong, its your own responsibility to take responsibility for your rest. Don’t answer the phone, tell your boss you have family in town and had a few beers, whatever it takes, but don’t blame the person who quit (when it sounds like this was for the best outcome for everyone) when the company can’t figure out any solution other than hoping you answer your phone and don’t insist on your rest.

We all hope that you’ll be around long enough to one day look back and realize that there were times you probably should have made exactly the same decision this pilot did.

[Tim]

The point of this thread is don't be a douche bag.

[. ._]

I think the moral of the story here is to not start a thread
while drinking.

[Castorero]

I wonder if this pilot had been a man, whether Nark, or the other Narks out there would have had the same reaction.

Surely there is more to the story, and some of it may be the shitty attitude towards women in aviation that still exists in some quarters.

Here we have a PILOT who has the intelligence, foresight, and good judgement to do what she feels is right, in view of the weather conditions, personal experience limits, and shitty company culture, and bails out.

People usually bail out with no notice when they feel under threat, and have lost all respect for the organization, for whatever reason.

She should not be slagged in public, but applauded for her courage.

She more than manned up, in my view, and Nark owes her an apology for being an ass.

[Nark]

You missed the entire point to what I wrote. I even re-wrote it several times, I broke it down "barney style" and you still don't get it.

You're simply an ass for not being able to comprehend basic English.

[5x5]

Hey Nark - you tried your best. Hopefully some people got the message.

It makes we weep though to see the number of people that thought this thread was about the pilot quitting because the weather was below their personal limits. Hopefully none of those respondents are pilots or responsible people in aviation because if they can't understand your post, there is no possible way they can understand CARs.

[jpilot77]

To show i know how to read, Nark wasn't mad about her deciding not to fly, he wasn't that mad about having to work on his day off, he was mad that the pilot who decided not to fly started saying they where flying VFR in IFR weather. There end of story.

[Slats]

There is more to this story than I care to share.

Don't dip your pen in the company ink. Never ends well.
Trust me.

[Nark]

One of the two golden rules I've been known to break.

The other is don't date pilots.