New "Air Canada Pilots Private Forum"

[JayDee]

Has your union undertaken any such work?

When this issue first surfaced ACPA commissioned a former MEC Chairman to do a detailed study and report . The study revealed there would be minimum impact on the pilots and our contract provisions.

Guess What ?

ACPA kept the results secret as the results weren't what they had hoped for. Keep in mind the ACPA MEC is a very political animal basically controlled by the West Coast contingent. The study was eventually leaked and posted on the ACPA forum much to the dismay of the MEC.

You have to remember one thing in this whole saga. The MEC decided what direction they PERSONALLY wanted this file to head and then asked the membership if they wanted to come along for the ride. IOW, Here is the answer, do you like the question? when they should have presented --- Here is the question---- here is the research--- here are the options--- What do you want to do?

The "fix" has been in since day one from the ACPA MEC and the sheep have obediently stood in line waiting against all odds for the miracle to happen.

Everyone knows there will be an "initial" bubble of so called winners when this is implemented. You would have to a complete idiot not to accept and understand that. The plausible theory is that the MEC wants that bubble to occur when THEY hit retirement age and THEY become the group who are the initial winners.

Thats why every effort is being made to stall this as long as possible.

[accumulous]

When this issue first surfaced ACPA commissioned a former MEC Chairman to do a detailed study and report . The study revealed there would be minimum impact on the pilots and our contract provisions.

Was that study of minimum impact presented at the Tribunal hearings? Anybody know?

[Johnny Mapleleaf]

Other airlines have contracts/agreements that allow guys to go past 60. The majority of the ATPLs are welcome to work there or understand that in the compensation deferred seniority system at AC is structured on a normal retirement age of 60.

A more accurate way to make this statement is that no other airline in Canada has any contractual provision requiring it to discriminate on the basis of age in the way that Air Canada does. Your answer begs the question, because the whole issue before the tribunal and the court is the legality of that contractual restriction. And the current, valid law from the tribunal is that that age 60 limit is illegal. In fact, any age limit is illegal, according to the tribunal, because the tribunal says that the mandatory retirement exemption is invalid.

By the way, none of my friends who successfully underwent the interview, hiring and indoctrination process at Air Canada report ever receiving a briefing on the age discriminatory ultimate limit to their employment, or on any of the specific details of what you refer to as the compensation deferred seniority system, let alone being required to sign any agreement forcing them to waive any rights that they might have under human rights legislation.

[Takeoff OK]

Out of curiosity, what was the retirement age at Canadian?

[BLZD1]

Johnny Mapleleaf,

I never sign an agreement saying I could not be a 777 Capt when I got hired. Where is my 777 pay?

No difference if we use your argument!

[Johnny Mapleleaf]

Out of curiosity, what was the retirement age at Canadian?

60. Same as at all of its acquisitions, including PWA, Nordair, and EPA. But Canadian disappeared in 2000. ICAO changed in 2006. Most carriers in Canada other than Canadian and Air Canada either didn't have an age 60 restriction or removed it shortly after 2000.

[Johnny Mapleleaf]

Johnny Mapleleaf, I never sign an agreement saying I could not be a 777 Capt when I got hired. Where is my 777 pay?

You will have far greater chances of getting it when this litigation is over than you would ever have had, absent the change. Be patient. It is coming.