trey kule wrote:So where does one gain experience when you bastards only want to hire experienced pilots? Now how many times have I heard that? Foggy said it much more kindly and elegantly than I would of. But you asked.
Trey, I did not call anyone a "bastard", nor did I ever imply that you guys are wrong for doing it the way you do, just trying to understand. Regardless of how many hours someone has in the book, if they are new to the pressurized turbine environment, they are going to need some mentoring from the captain and if there is a decompression at fl220, the 5000hr f/o may still panic and start crying while going into shock, unlikely sure...but whos to know?
I also happen to agree that the "entitlement" is way out of control. Taking client requirements and contrails etc out of the equation, when is the right time to start the transition into more complex machines as f/o? 500hrs? 750? 1000? 3000? Is there a right answer?
He exercised "artistic licence" and inserted the word "bastard" into the quote. Mainly because that's the prevailing sentiment we get from low time pilots.
Bottom line? Companies can hire whoever they want to fly them around the friendly skies.
As for the actual time requirement to get your ass into a complex machine? Right place, right time has always been the mantra. I knew a flying instructor who got the right seat job on a G2, because he just happened to be walking through the hangar when they need someone. True.
And to the opposite end of the spectrum, I'm upgrading one of my guys to a Single Pilot position on the C441... @ 750hrs Total Time. It's a 702 ops though.
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--In his wrapup remarks, the FAA chief said, "If you think the safety bar is set too high, then your
standards are set too low."
We used to fly cantankerous, unreliable, complex, overloaded, and underpowered four engined bombers single pilot at night into war zones with 400TT. Pretty sure a 441 is a piece of cake in comparison.
We used to fly cantankerous, unreliable, complex, overloaded, and underpowered four engined bombers single pilot at night into war zones with 400TT. Pretty sure a 441 is a piece of cake in comparison.
And those guys wheren't even the top of there class (the best being moved on to fighters).
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Welcome to Redneck Airlines. We might not get you there but we'll get you close!
Red Bandit wrote:Having worked there I know from experience that things are exactly as others have indicated. The CP is unbelievably difficult to work with. For direct entry Captains (rare) I had a bond to cover the exact cost of Flight Safety (~$9K USD). This bond did not decrease over time and was 18 months. For FO's there is no bond as they do not send you to Flight Safety right away. Likely because they have a revolving door for the right seaters. What they don't tell the new FO's is that they are on a 3 month trial to see if they are "worth" sending to Flight Safety, at which time there will be a bond. I was fired without cause, given no notice and told to beat it. At least the bond was torn up.
I strongly caution all that are going to look at this place. Also, watch for "other duties as assigned" in the job description. This can include all kinds of ridiculous tasks.
Maybe if they tore up the bond, you WERE fired with cause!!
I would agree, I was fired with cause but they didn't/couldn't back it up with anything that's why it went the way it did. I am in no way happy with the decision that was made but like so many things in life there is nothing I can do about it.
Just like so many others with hours in the book and no job. The glories of being a pilot
I'm confused, "fired with cause" means justified, in which case they could hold you to the bond. I believe most bonds have a caveat that if you are fired due to your own actions you are still liable for the remainder of the bond.
That way if you want out of your bond for other employment, you can't just walk in and tell the boss to foxtrot oscar, to get yourself fired and off you go.
If you are fired "without cause" ie;they just don't like you,they cannot hold you to the bond.
It is not always about what you can do..Sometimes, from a company standpoint you want an indvidual gone so badly, and want absolutely nothing to do with them in the future, so you will cancel a bond, employment contract, pay unrequired severance...pretty much anything just so you never have to deal with them again.
This is particularily true in the corporate world where the pilots interact with company people on a continuing basis.
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Accident speculation:
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
