Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-2014

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Rudder,

Holders of most EU passports enter Canada without a visa if:

1) for leisure
2) studies of less than 6 months.

That is how they enter Canada: on false pretences.

Remunerated activities for a Canadian employer require :

1) work permit
2) resident status
3) Canadian citizenship.

None of this is Gilles Hudicourt's interpretation of Canadian law, it is Canadian law.

How it was allowed to happen falls in line with:

1) How Sunwing was provided with reciprocal work permits for its foreign pilots when all it sent overseas was wet-leases
2) How Airlines were able to obtain LMOs stating there were no qualified Canadian pilots in Canada
3) How foreign pilots were never declared to the CRA who never collected pay deductions from any of them.
4) How Foreign pilots were provided with FLVCs although regulations dont' allow it.
5) How a Slovak 737 was able to do a series of flights in Canada although its operator had no Foreign Airline Operator's certificate in Canada

So now foreign pilots, as rumour has it, without work permits, are training and doing line indoc while being remunerated by Sunwing. There is nothing new or shocking here. It's all perfectly in line with what has been happening all along.

Now with regards to TSC. Please be more specific and I will gladly reply for I don't follow you.

[rudder]

What does AT have to do with it ? I noticed you have been focusing on AT recently.

That is a long list of agencies to be accusing of incompetence.

In any case, the AT reference is that there seems to be a lot of change happening at AT, including an announcement of another B737 contractor for this winter (EnerJet). I hope that the change that is being implemented will have positive implications for the AT pilots but are you sure that there are not any threats closer to home?

Bonne chance a tout le monde.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

That is a long list of agencies to be accusing of incompetence.

Did I say incompetence ? Please quote me then.

I fear that you reached your own conclusions, conclusions you are now attempting to attribute to me.
There are many thing I could have talked about. But I'm afraid that I've purposely and intelligently stayed clear of all that. I stick to facts, and regulations mostly.

EnerJet ? Any foreign pilots there ? Not that I've heard.

As for the rest of your post, I'm afraid I'm clueless to what you are insinuating so unless you spell it out, you'll have to do without my input.

[Rogerdodger2]

How do you know these pilots are being payed by SW????

[Ender]

Rudder:

It seems to me that your idea of relaxing oversight due to the minimal changes that have occurred is at best naive. This issue will require constant vigilance for many years to come, until the new "norms" (whatever they may be) have been firmly established.

Kudos, Gilles. You are a true inspiration, and every pilot on this board owes you a substantial debt. I foresee many free beers in your future. Keep up the good work.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

The last word I got a few days ago, Sunwing foreign pilots were still waiting for their work permits. Any word on that? Are they still waiting ? There are 16 Sunwing aircraft in the air as I post this. Are they all being flown by Canadians ?

[Rogerdodger2]

The last word I got a few days ago, Sunwing foreign pilots were still waiting for their work permits. Any word on that. Are they still waiting ? There are 16 Sunwing aircraft in the air as I post this. Are they all being flown by Canadians ?

There are Brazilians, Jamaicans, French, Indian, NewZelanders, South Africans, Irish, Scotish, English and many more full time pilots from other countries at Sunwing. So no, they're not all being flown by Canadians.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

The Sunwing fleet is now at 21 aircraft:
13 permanent year round aircraft
7 recently arrived aircraft which seem to be short term dry leases
1 wet lease

With 250 Canadian pilots and 20 dry-leased aircraft, Sunwing's current fleet is about as large as it can operate without making use of Foreign pilots.

The wet-lease is that is already in country id the first of 5 approved by the CTA. If any other non-wet lease aircraft arrive these days, they can only be operated by foreign crews on work permits.

[wyndham]

I think it's time to call the UN

[Sunwing738]

Looks like Sunwing has a new marketing strategy this year featuring some of the major resorts that Sunwing Vacations offers packages too, with the exception of Worldline.ca. I'm sure these companies are paying to advertise on the plane though? Smart move by WG to garner some extra $$ over the winter?

To me this screams Skybus, the ULCC that went defunct a few years ago in the states, they had multiple advertisements on the interior cabin and on the outer paint scheme as well.

Personally I think it's very unprofessional for an airline.

[whipline]

Well Sunwing was paying a lot of money to cover up the travel service logo. Why not sell advertising? Those decals cost 60,000. Why not let someone else pay for them?

[Rogerdodger2]

I'm sorry I'm not sure why it is unprofessional to advertise the product you sell? Using the aircraft as an advertising tool, as well as making money doing it, seems like good business to me. Ugly, maybe. Unprofessional, no. Perhaps it's time to get out of the dark ages and start operating airlines as businesses instead of places soaked with entitlement and outdated ideas. Get on board or be left behind, or worse left on the unemployment line. SW isn't going anywhere, SW Vacations makes money hand over fist. The Airline is simply a TOOL for the travel company. It's NOT the money maker.

[Takeoff OK]

I'm sorry I'm not sure why it is unprofessional to advertise the product you sell? Using the aircraft as an advertising tool, as well as making money doing it, seems like good business to me. Ugly, maybe. Unprofessional, no. Perhaps it's time to get out of the dark ages and start operating airlines as businesses instead of places soaked with entitlement and outdated ideas. Get on board or be left behind, or worse left on the unemployment line. SW isn't going anywhere, SW Vacations makes money hand over fist. The Airline is simply a TOOL for the travel company. It's NOT the money maker.

Yep! Everyone get on board the Sunwing bus!!! Woohoo!!! Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, they do is scummy at all. Where do I sign up?

[Rogerdodger2]

Takeoff OK...
100% negative 100% of the time.

[Takeoff OK]

No I'm not.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Two Travel Service 737s are presently en-route to Canada for Sunwing. They are most likely a couple wet-leases. With the arrival of those two aircraft, Sunwing's fleet will be at 24 aircraft.

The 13 core fleet
8 short term dry-leases
3 wet-leases.

One of the aircraft has been in maintenance so Sunwing is now flying 20 aircraft under its own certificate. This is the maximum number of aircraft it can operate by using only its Canadian crews. Did Sunwing obtain work permits for its foreign pilots, some of whom have been in Canada since early Nov, I still have no idea. I hope to find out this week.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Someone has finally come forward and informed me that Sunwing finally obtained the work permits for its foreign pilots. I don't have numbers yet. I will have to wait for my ATIP request to go through before I obtain those numbers.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

OK-TVS, a 737 from Travel Service, is arriving in Canada today. This addition will bring Sunwing's fleet to 25 aircraft.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

C-FUAA, a dry lease from Jetairfly (a TUI company), arrived yesterday.

That puts the Sunwing fleet at 26 aircraft. Four of those are wet-lease, the rest are flown under the Sunwing AOC.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Two additional 737s were added to the Sunwing fleet yesterday and today, C-FRZJ, a dry-lease from Thomson, and C-FJAU, a dry lease from Belgium's Jetairfly.

That brings the Canadian registered aircraft to 24 and the wet-leases to 4, for a total of 28 aircraft.

With 250 Canadian pilots, Sunwing Can operate a maximum of about 20 aircraft. They sent 7 aircraft on wet-leases to Europe last summer, for which they are claiming reciprocity. That would allow them a fleet of 27 aircraft, one above the number they will reach with the arrival of these two latest aircraft.

Yet they announced a fleet of 32 aircraft, 5 aircraft above 27.

These five additional aircraft will be crewed by foreign pilots who will be in Canada in addition to the number of Canadian pilots who went to Europe last summer.

Once again, Sunwing is selling seats on aircraft that are flown by foreign pilots who do not come here under any form of reciprocity.

Thank you Transport Canada for not doing your job:

CAR 725.106(6)

A foreign licensed pilot may be granted authority for training and checking only when a Canadian licensed pilot is not available.

During revenue flights foreign licensed pilots shall not replace Canadian licensed pilots.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Ever since Dec 17th, the Sunwing fleet stands at 32 aircraft:

13 aircraft they had last summer
14 additional dry-leases
5 wet-leases.

32 aircraft with just 250 Canadian pilots.

The foreigners were issued with LMOs from ESDC on the basis that there were not enough qualified pilots in Canada.
Immigration Canada then provided these with Work Permits.
Transport Canada provided them with Foreign Licence Validation Certificates (FLVCs) and was very accomodating in allowing the foreigners who had not yet received their work permits to do their Sunwing training, including the line indoct, nevertheless.

The CTA approved 5 wet-leases although the new wet-lease policy would only have allowed 2 wet-leases.

This post will remain here as long as AvCanada exists to document what is going on with the hope that someday, some people of the caliber of Kevin Page or Sheila Fraser will decide to look into all of this.

Happy new year.

[gonnabeapilot]

Gilles... I find it very telling that this is a thread you started and is titled "Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots" and yet over the span of 3 months since the thread was started and with over 3 pages worth of posts, you have made ZERO mention of Canjet, their fleet for this winter or their utilization of foreign pilots. Seems to me this has less and less to do with the issue of foreign pilots and more and more to do with trying to keep Transat's competition in check....

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles... I find it very telling that this is a thread you started and is titled "Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots" and yet over the span of 3 months since the thread was started and with over 3 pages worth of posts, you have made ZERO mention of Canjet, their fleet for this winter or their utilization of foreign pilots. Seems to me this has less and less to do with the issue of foreign pilots and more and more to do with trying to keep Transat's competition in check....

Ok, I'll tell you what is happening at Canjet. Canjet and Air Transat reached an agreement where 72 Air Transat pilots would be doing their 737 training and line indoct at Canjet this winter (not at the same time), essentially taking the place of what would have otherwise been foreign pilots. It is my understanding that Canjet still applied to have some foreign pilots this winter, but I have no numbers yet (rumours stated around 30). I made ATIP request to both ESDA and TC to have the number of LMOs and FLVCs issued this winter but did not yet get a reply.

Another negative is that Canjet obtained the approval for two wet leases from the CTA when the language of the new wet lease policy should have only allowed one. The are companies and unions that are in the process of contesting that CTA decision.

gonnabeapilot, I find it very telling that you should use your posts for attacking what I do on this forum instead of contributing to it. You think that criticizing me and what I do is to be your contribution to this thread?

[Rogerdodger2]

So when they are finished Canjet training and line indoc using Canjet training syllabus and SOPs I assume they'll have to retrain to fly Transat aircraft and complete Transat line indoc. Or will that step be skipped?

[Localizer]

I really can't believe the people on here who thinks its completely ok of a Canadian company to use foreign labour, insides the boundaries of Canada, to be more cost effective against other Canadian companies that employ ... Canadians ... go figure. Your minds are really warped ...