Diadem wrote:The decision is a lot more complex than "I refuse to accept any position that pays below the industry mean".
I think people are venting about how sad the state of the industry is, that in an example like yours, it indeed becomes a complex decision to accept such jobs as you technically enter the race to the bottom.
My big question mark of the year is why somebody at 5000 hours total time, with all the nice mpic and qualifications, a good head on his/her shoulders, has to make a salary that is alike the time when he/she was paying his dues? That's the biggest mind boggling point that I am struggling with. I already know the answer to why, it's just how sad things have gotten that this is what it's getting to.
Almost makes you want to stay in your 1900 and King Air jobs, and revisit those dreams to fly for the airlines.
If you stay in your King Air and PC12 positions you will make nearly double the Salary. The problem is in Airline operations plain and simple. Race for the cheapest fairs for customers at the expense of Pilots.
X-Savior wrote:If you stay in your King Air and PC12 positions you will make nearly double the Salary. The problem is in Airline operations plain and simple. Race for the cheapest fairs for customers at the expense of Pilots.
Shhhh keep it on the down low! some of us are actually doing this and we don't want the airline mentality coming this way.
X-Savior wrote:If you stay in your King Air and PC12 positions you will make nearly double the Salary. The problem is in Airline operations plain and simple. Race for the cheapest fairs for customers at the expense of Pilots.
Shhhh keep it on the down low! some of us are actually doing this and we don't want the airline mentality coming this way.
I am always amazed to read how some people here think that all one has to do is band together, say no, and "voilla" the pay scales will begin to rise. Could that thought get any more simplistic! We live in a competitive environment, be it aviation, mining, telecomunications, etc. Wages are derived based on many factors. Let's not forget that some companies, like GGN, negotiate with AC for the cost of their seats among other things. At the end of the year there also has to be a profit for the company otherwise, what's the point of taking on that kind of risk to begin with. When you have a few of these important cost values established it really isn't that difficult to calculate what a company can pay its employees. Would it be nice if everyone who worked at GGN, (or any other similar operation), made let's say, 25% more per annum? Of course, but does anyone understand the implications of that? Salaries are what they are and for good reason. We may not agree with all those reasons or even understand them all. I doubt the executive team at ANY company is sitting in a board room thinking up ways to reduce the pay scale of their employees. I hold only a PPL so I have no aspirations (anymore) to fly for a living. I have however, been in many board rooms in my life and have an understanding of what makes a company operate in the long term. Easy, heck no! Sometimes really tough decisions have to be made. My experience has always been that the decisions are made looking to the future of the company and not against any of its employees per se. Although, I realize how it often looks that way from the other side of the fence. I wonder how many of the people reading this forum would suggest how a company go about raising the salary of ALL its employees (not just the pilots, right) and still operate a profitable operation that satisfies those who have risked their own finances to start up the company in the first place.
You get ignorant post of the year and it's only January 6, wow.
Let's start with the fact GGN bid on this work knowing what they would be paying the pilots, so the tough decisions were made with that in mind.
This is work that was already being done by another company(Jazz) and since wages are pretty much the only controllable cost, I think it is very likely the conversation in the board room had to do with how much they could drives the wages down and it had everything to do with why AC wanted this work outsourced away from Jazz.
By the way, for the last 2 years or so, all the memos from upper management has been how we are too expensive and the latest had a reference that alluded to a B scale for new hires, but I'm sure the board meetings are focusing on how they could drive down the price of fuel!
Delta Air Lines said on Monday that it had agreed to buy a refinery near Philadelphia from ConocoPhillips to offset the risk of higher jet fuel prices.
Nice to see your thoughts are only one sided. I wouldn't normally spend the energy to push the keyboard on anyone who chooses to call another person "ignorant" but in your case I'll gladly make an exception.
Go ahead and put your money where your mouth is and dig deep into your pockets, (very deep), and go start up your own airline. Let us all know how much you plan to pay your pilots, maintenance staff, clerical workers, schedulers, etc. Add in the cost of the aircraft lease, fuel, landing fees, maintenance, (scheduled and non-scheduled), etc, etc, (the list of costs is long), then let us know what a seat will cost joe passenger to fly on your airline. As I stated, wouldn't it be nice if everyone earned 25% more in their wages. There is always a flip side. Until you are actually in their shoes don't presume to know anything but what you read.
Nice to see your thoughts are only one sided. I wouldn't normally spend the energy to push the keyboard on anyone who chooses to call another person "ignorant" but in your case I'll gladly make an exception.
Go ahead and put your money where your mouth is and dig deep into your pockets, (very deep), and go start up your own airline. Let us all know how much you plan to pay your pilots, maintenance staff, clerical workers, schedulers, etc. Add in the cost of the aircraft lease, fuel, landing fees, maintenance, (scheduled and non-scheduled), etc, etc, (the list of costs is long), then let us know what a seat will cost joe passenger to fly on your airline. As I stated, wouldn't it be nice if everyone earned 25% more in their wages. There is always a flip side. Until you are actually in their shoes don't presume to know anything but what you read.
What about the CEO 's and upper management making million dollar salaries followed by bigger bonuses? Is that nessisary? Stick to your other job!
You're aboslutely right in many cases. Executives enjoy significant salleries and bonuses. They are also taking much of the risk. Is it fair? Of course not. Do you think it is going to change any time soon. Of course not. That's capitalism at its best........
It's a small industry! Don't do something today that you may regret tomorrow. Nice to see you have that much conviction though. I truely commend you. Assuming you knew what you were getting into when you became a pilot, what was your reasoning in not changing careers? Is it possible that money, while important, isn't as important as doing something you love, as an earlier post suggested?
Inverted2 wrote:I'm thinking of applying just so I can tell them to take their lousy pay and shove it!
Omgyou're sooooo funny. I'm really sure that will accomplish something. I highly doubt they will up the salary just because inverted2 shows up to waste his own time at an interview to tell Georgian what he thinks of the pay..
leftoftrack wrote:Thought it was already announced at 76000 left seat and 40000 for the right
If thats true its disgusting! I recently took a hiatus from flying in Canada for this very reason (Yes I have significant experience). Why would anyone gain the experience needed for this sort of position and go to work for that sort of crappy pay. When I tell people in the general public how much pilots make in Canada they just don't believe it. Take your skills and go somewhere abroad where you will be payed accordingly! There are plenty of places in this world where 14 hour duty days 20+ days a month is unheard of. 76000 for a captain in Toronto is a joke and the joke is on the fool who would do that.
Censo wrote:At least its a foot in the door. Lets not complain when things start going the way we want it to be.
Oh? And who wants it to be this way exactly? How low would you go for a 'foot in the door'?
+1, Censo has no idea what he is talking about.... A foot in the door? What are you talking about? Thats the attitude that keeps getting us deeper into these shitty wawcons.
Censo wrote:At least its a foot in the door. Lets not complain when things start going the way we want it to be.
Oh? And who wants it to be this way exactly? How low would you go for a 'foot in the door'?
+1, Censo has no idea what he is talking about.... A foot in the door? What are you talking about? Thats the attitude that keeps getting us deeper into these shitty wawcons.
Sorry maybe I should of clarified for the both of you. What I meant of said was, if I was a student that just finished flight college and went off to better things, I wouldn't turn down a deal with Air Georgian, i'd consider it. Although pay might be low for a couple years, but that's not what flying is about. People get into this industry for the passion not money.
Censo wrote:
Sorry maybe I should of clarified for the both of you. What I meant of said was, if I was a student that just finished flight college and went off to better things, I wouldn't turn down a deal with Air Georgian, i'd consider it. Although pay might be low for a couple years, but that's not what flying is about. People get into this industry for the passion not money.
Censo, out of curiosity, what amount per credit hour would YOU be willing to accept to fly right seat on a Georgian RJ? Serious question.
You know, I'm guessing here that every pilot does not want to be employed by Air Georgian. I would like to hear what current pilots have to say about Air Georgian just by curiosity.
Censo, out of curiosity, what amount per credit hour would YOU be willing to accept to fly right seat on a Georgian RJ? Serious question.
