Who needs F-35

[2R]

These F35 threads always boil down to
1. "I like ____ airplane, it's super neat"
2. "No, this one is way better"
3. Government/mil purchasing is stupid, or let's have a vote and pick what the layman non pilot (and non fighter pilot) public likes
4. Let's build our own (ha)

And then the cycle repeats itself.
.

Canada built one of the most advanced aircraft of the day. The military wanted it, some politicians wanted it ,but some of the Allies did not want Canada to have it .
Even if Canada was to design another first class aircraft ,We would never be allowed to build it or fly it.
Just like the Avro Arrow.

[Tom H]

bang for your buck is much worse if it doesn't work right.

Gannet167

While I tend to agree with most of your post this last piece is what is driving the F-35 discussion and the politics around it.

Yes if we buy a existing in production design and it doesn't work for as long as we want or as well as we need its a problem.

But it is also a problem if we spend more for a "New" design that doesn't deliver.

In this case "I believe" the later is just as possible as the former.

In my highly biased personal opinion

[frosti]

Canada built one of the most advanced aircraft of the day.

50 years ago.

Even if Canada was to design another first class aircraft ,We would never be allowed to build it or fly it.

We would never want to fly it, nor could we build it.

[Tom H]

We would never want to fly it, nor could we build it.

Thank you frosti for demonstrating precisely why Canada remains a hewer of wood and hauler of water to the world.

This is why we fail.

In my highly biased personal opinion

[2R]

We would never want to fly it, nor could we build it.

Thank you frosti for demonstrating precisely why Canada remains a hewer of wood and hauler of water to the world.

Actually, the Chinese are bringing their own workers to mine Canada, as the Chinese mining companies do not want to train or employ Canadians. They are treating Canada just like their mining operations in Africa.
At least the Americans exploiting the resources in Canada train and employ locals and are willing to work with the locals to ensure dignity and safety in the workplace.

[Beefitarian]

Too busy fighting with ourselves to make our own syrup and felt top hats. Just drill a hole in a tree boil that for your bannock. Then make sure you send the best beaver pelts home to the King fellas. They will send flour and baking powder in exchange.

Oh right it's the 21st century. Send the oil to China in exchange for trinkets and buy F-35s on your American Express cards. The taxes will keep coming to make interest only payments.

I'm sure China will be kind enough to give us Jet-A.

[bizjets101]

Interesting, guess this is what happens when you get caught spying on your friends???

Brazil buys the Grippen over the Super Hornet; click here. After a decade of discussion, Brazil’s President Dilma Rousseff announced on Wednesday the acquisition of 36 Gripen NG fighter jets, from Sweden.

[frosti]

Interesting, guess this is what happens when you get caught spying on your friends???

Brazil buys the Grippen over the Super Hornet; click here. After a decade of discussion, Brazil’s President Dilma Rousseff announced on Wednesday the acquisition of 36 Gripen NG fighter jets, from Sweden.

Great news, means another blow for Boeing and their Super Hornet. If they don't get any more orders by 2015 the line shuts down for good.

[Rockie]

Did Boeing not hire you or a member of your family or something? This seems personal for you.

[bizjets101]

[frosti]

[bizjets101]

Frosti is a good name for you because it'll be a cold day in hell before Canada orders F-35's hah.

Harper isn't going to touch it again during his term, I doubt very much he'll run again - considering the tide has finally (thank god) turned against him.

Trudeau - is very likely the heir apparent - and he will not bow down to America - so maybe when you turn 18 your parents will let you move to America - and you'll already have F-35's.

[Mach1]

Trudeau - is very likely the heir apparent - and he will not bow down to America - so maybe when you turn 18 your parents will let you move to America - and you'll already have F-35's.

With no record at all to stand on, how do you know what Trudeau will or will not do? I know the Trudeau fan club thinks that this man will be the clone of his father... a man who did no favours for any part of the country other than Ontario and Quebec... but the truth is, he is an absolute unknown in terms of what he will or won't do if elected to office.

Harper isn't going to touch it again during his term,

This is very likely to correct.

[2R]

The F-35 programme has failed to meet the expectations that the sales teams whispered.
The bait and switch begins. Typical sales bullshit.

I have heard that the next generation fighter aircraft will spread pixie dust and cure world hunger, disease and it is so effective that you only need one

[kamikaze]

"Harper isn't going to touch it again during his term"

That's still a while away ... The "committee" that was tasked to investigate the F-35 and other alternatives really should come back with something to say before then.

If they don't it'll stink.

And I'd suggest that it's likely they're thinking maybe the F-35 ain't their first choice anymore, behind closed doors, what with the political and fiscal realities, like all the slashing and cutting going on at DnD, and the continuing failure/doubt of all his major military purchases, the latest being the LAV III replacement that's now dead.

If they keep going with the F-35, it'll be luxury we can't afford, if doesn't, it'll be another black eye on his supposed "Good management" image (though I don't know why anyone thinks that in the first place).

[bizjets101]

That's still a while away

Not really, 20 months of which the final 12 are for campaigning - that leaves a 8 month window, at a time that Harper is experiencing the lowest support of his entire political career. The F-35 has been a Black Eye to his party, and very un-popular with Canadian Taxpayers.

There are far greater odds that Harper will resign, than touch the F-35 programme - which at this point could be a death blow to his party, never mind Harper.

Obama who is equally on his way out, is entering his lame duck session, and doesn't have that much arm twisting power left on either side of the boarder.

[2R]

Chinese military forums on the Internet were abuzz recently over the posting of the first photo of China’s latest test flight of a prototype jet.

The photo identified the aircraft as the next-generation heavy stealth fighter, the J-20 Dragon — the third J-20 prototype Beijing has revealed to the public since its debut in 2011.

The J-20’s key features resemble those of the top-of-the-line U.S. F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning.

In fact, the official Communist Party newspaper Global Times bragged about how key technologies used for the F-35 Lightning were “completely obtained” by China and how the J-20 is equipped with these technologies and features.

In a Jan. 20 article titled “Six of F-35’s Crucial Technologies Have All Been Obtained by China; J-20 Epitomizes All the Six Technologies,” the Global Times confirmed that the advanced designs and features include a diverterless supersonic inlet, an electro-optical distributed aperture system, an electro-optical targeting system, an AVEN nozzle, and a fire-control array radar system.


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z2rHuvL4Dv
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

I wonder what the price of a J-20 would cost Canada ?

[North Shore]

I wonder what the price of a J-20 would cost Canada ?

Probably cheap, just like anything else built there. Go to Canadian Tyre, and buy some of that stuff - see how long it lasts under even light-to-normal use..

[Old fella]

http://rt.com/usa/pentagon-us-defense-l ... artin-129/


Still ongoing issues with this fighter.........

[azimuthaviation]

I wonder what the price of a J-20 would cost Canada ?

Probably cheap, just like anything else built there. Go to Canadian Tyre, and buy some of that stuff - see how long it lasts under even light-to-normal use..

China was once known for, and the nation was synonymous with high degree of quality (fine China). And their engineering feats were quite impressive, the great wall, the grand canal to name the prominent two. All the junk made in China by North American companies, for the north American market, have degraded the confidence in the eyes of the world of Chinese capabilities that now "Made in China" is synonymous with poor quality when in fact that is far from true. I guess the effect of the bad PR doesnt outweigh the financial benefits of keeping so many people employed and the populace productive.

[xchox]

I wonder what the price of a J-20 would cost Canada ?

Probably cheap, just like anything else built there. Go to Canadian Tyre, and buy some of that stuff - see how long it lasts under even light-to-normal use..

China was once known for, and the nation was synonymous with high degree of quality (fine China). And their engineering feats were quite impressive, the great wall, the grand canal to name the prominent two. All the junk made in China by North American companies, for the north American market, have degraded the confidence in the eyes of the world of Chinese capabilities that now "Made in China" is synonymous with poor quality when in fact that is far from true. I guess the effect of the bad PR doesnt outweigh the financial benefits of keeping so many people employed and the populace productive.

True.

[cbty]

Personally, I believe it was better if it was never going to be done. It a huge waste of money and its effectiveness is not so clear.

[frosti]

Personally, I believe it was better if it was never going to be done. It a huge waste of money and its effectiveness is not so clear.

An aircraft that has never been combat proven has its effectiveness in question. You don't say.

[Troubleshot]

I am in favor that we need an upgrade to some degree but the F-35 program seems like it is more about money rather than protecting skies. I found this video on LiveLeak...I know that you can make argument for either side but it is still an interesting video on the subject.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1e1_1391688665

[Richard_K_Spyte]

OMG! The damned thing has turned on us!

http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/02/f35-delays-sentience/