Too cold for YYZ workers

[Marinth]

Marinth,

Except I spent time in the arctic and live in a city where this weather happens every year. I've done my fair share of work in this type of weather.

Fair. My second point still stands. Pay the minimum, expect the minimum.

[ahramin]

Even with the pathetic situation in YYZ this week, I still don't think they can compete with YEG for poor management.

[North Shore]

I want to move somewhere that people complain about how freezing cold it is because it's 5 degrees Celsius.

METAR CYYJ 092100Z 13009G16KT 15SM -RA FEW017 BKN037 OVC060 06/04
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Not only chilly, but windy, too!

[Bede]

Marinth,

I hate to let the inner old man inside me out but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JW1tJLRtsk

[Big Pistons Forever]

I want to move somewhere that people complain about how freezing cold it is because it's 5 degrees Celsius.

METAR CYYJ 092100Z 13009G16KT 15SM -RA FEW017 BKN037 OVC060 06/04
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Not only chilly, but windy, too!

That's my kind of cool

[dashx]

Thank god for heated seats (and snow tires). Big boots. Insulated coveralls. Ski goggles (especially ski goggles). Long underwear. Etc etc etc.

And a big thank you to the ground handlers that kept my airplanes moving throughout the day. Made my life easy.

[esp803]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQdXyKi ... pp=desktop

[complexintentions]

I thought that Toronto was full of douchebag Canada Goose jacket-wearers specifically to address this problem? Or was having a crack-smoking mayor just not quite enough to make the city the world's laughingstock?

http://canadadouche.tumblr.com

[rolly117]

Wow! fancy words for dam cold. Polar Vortex, flash freeze everybody in the the news must of watched The Day After movie . The world has gone in to a deep freeze/ice age. Wind chill is BS. it only gives you bragging rights, Its like the media is trying to scare you to death. The coldest i ever felt was Ross River Yukon, 52 below and we were operating a twin otter out of there and I didn't give a rats ass what the wind chill was, we dressed accordingly and worked thru it. Not once has the media mentioned Yellowknife which in fact is the coldest city in Canada. Half of North Americas land mass is affected by the weather that comes from the Arctic that blows right thru the Knife. I am willing to bet the Japanese tourists that visit the knife to see the Northern lights have seen colder weather than the majority of Canadian that live in southern Canada. And they pay for it!

[Rockie]

In The arctic you are not only used to that type of weather but equipped for it. Not so in Toronto. I'll bet if you had to work the Dubai ramp in July you would be crying like a baby and people would be scoffing at you.

[FighterPilot]

How are they not prepared for it in Toronto. They're already wearing their Canada Goose jackets when it dips below -10.

[godsrcrazy]

This should be no surprise to anyone. I said this in different post. The Toronto Ground crew and baggage handlers are a bunch of spoiled kids protected by their union. I sat waiting for bags one day for over 2 hours while every flight behind us got their bags. The baggage handlers would not go near the plane as there was snow around it. I recall looking out the window while pulling up to the gate. You could hardly see snow on the ramp. These guys are protected by their Union. Be careful they will wild cat strike like they March 2012 when they Heckled Lisa Riatt. There was no repercussion to the Union for this Wildcat strike that effected thousands of innocent travellers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canad ... -1.1138527 So why would anyone think there will be one for this BS.

[av8ts]

Yes polar vortex, i remember when it was called a "cold snap" or just winter

[Rockie]

How are they not prepared for it in Toronto. They're already wearing their Canada Goose jackets when it dips below -10.

Not correct. From my observations they wear layers that also permit freedom of movement allowing them to work at a pace that will get the airplane back out within a day.

This should be no surprise to anyone. I said this in different post. The Toronto Ground crew and baggage handlers are a bunch of spoiled kids protected by their union. I sat waiting for bags one day for over 2 hours while every flight behind us got their bags. The baggage handlers would not go near the plane as there was snow around it. I recall looking out the window while pulling up to the gate. You could hardly see snow on the ramp. These guys are protected by their Union. Be careful they will wild cat strike like they March 2012 when they Heckled Lisa Riatt. There was no repercussion to the Union for this Wildcat strike that effected thousands of innocent travellers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canad ... -1.1138527 So why would anyone think there will be one for this BS.

Baseless, factless, misleading anti-union rant

[fish4life]

Ok maybe a not so extreme example how about YWG it's routinely cold and windy and they don't close down the airport you can't tell me YYZ is less equipped than YWG

[teacher]

Ok maybe a not so extreme example how about YWG it's routinely cold and windy and they don't close down the airport you can't tell me YYZ is less equipped than YWG

The ramp crew are better equipped I have no doubt but regardless of ramp crew, YWG does not get 30'C swings in temperature in 24 hours from above freezing to below. It's cold and stays cold. YWG probably doesn't get the amount of freezing rain that YYZ got or snow turned to rain (ie slush) than snow than -20'C freezing everything solid with an inch or more of ice. There was 1-2 inches of ice on all aprons and taxi ways. Push backs from gates was near impossible, aircraft were weather cocking due to near zero traction while taxiing and even when parked. That was the biggest problem. Even heard of equipement or baggage container sliding across the ramp due to the wind and hitting a Westjet '37. I would have prefered snow to the ice rink we got.

[Rockie]

Ok maybe a not so extreme example how about YWG it's routinely cold and windy and they don't close down the airport you can't tell me YYZ is less equipped than YWG

Routinely cold and windy is easier to deal with because people are used to it and the operation is set up to accommodate it. YWG also doesn't have near the quantity or tempo of activity YYZ does so the snowball effect (pun unintended) when things go off the rails is much less dramatic.

This gong show was also mainly due to freezing rain then flash freezing to solid ice, then snow, then wind and very low temperatures. All the surfaces were a skating rink and the taxiways are still very uncomfortable and tricky to taxi on due to ice.

[TheStig]

I'm with Teacher and Rockie. The working conditions at Pearson were dangerous; plain and simple. I know its fun for all Canadians to take shots at all things Toronto whenever possible, but if you seriously want to consider what happened this week I'd re-read their posts.

Something that hasn't been mentioned is that 20+diversions (from YUL, YTZ, and YOW) ended up in YYZ right before the FZRA on sunday night resulting in no gates being available Monday morning as conditions in YYZ continued to deteriorate.

I'd hope that both the airlines and GTAA can learn co-ordinate their operations during IROPS and utilize weather forecast to call in extra staff. Events like these should be used as a stress test to find weakness that cause the system to breakdown. Find root causes, find resolutions, prevent future compounding failures.

It's hard to accurately describe the huge effect on AC and WJ's operations delays in YYZ can cause alone, now add YOW, YUL, YHZ, and YYT to the mix. Over a 48 period there would barely be any aircraft in the fleet not planned through any of those stations (most multiple times). Utilization of billions of dollars worth of assets (aircraft) dictates 14+ hours a day in the air, anyone who actually see how much an aircraft is flown within an airline environment is flown would be amazed, there simply isn't enough elasticity to cope with massive disruptions.

I'd be amazed if their wasn't a staffing shortage at YYZ this was the first week back to work for most commuters and the highways were a nightmare flash-frozen ice caused semis to get stuck spinning there tires going up even the slightest grades. I'd think that 2-3 hours became an average commute. Once again, this isn't the north, most employees can't see the airport from their house.

Ridicule as you see fit, but Toronto is the centre of the Canadian business world and its commercial airline world. Keep some things in perspective, like the fact, that even with the closure, more passengers departed YYZ everyday this week than the departed YVR the day after the Olympics.

[MrWings]

Toronto is the centre of the Canadian business world and its commercial airline world.

Exactly. And being such, it should be better prepared.

Was the ball dropped? The CEO of the GTAA thinks so: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/t ... -1.2491343

[godsrcrazy]

Baseless, factless, misleading anti-union rant[/quote]

And this is a typical Pro Union response. The fact is everyone of these people should have been followed around and heckled by every passenger they screwed over from the East coast to the West coast with their childish actions.

Let alone all those people that missed their connecting flights because there was a skiff of snow on the ramp and the baggage handlers would not go near the plane. We were all in a customs baggage area they needed their bags to continue on.

[Rockie]

And this is a typical Pro Union response. The fact is everyone of these people should have been followed around and heckled by every passenger they screwed over from the East coast to the West coast with their childish actions.Let alone all those people that missed their connecting flights because there was a skiff of snow on the ramp and the baggage handlers would not go near the plane. We were all in a customs baggage area they needed their bags to continue on.

"Those people" as you refer to them, in fact all Air Canada employees, Canada Post employees, Maritime employees and others all had their rights and protections under the Canada Labour Code trampled and then stripped from them by the government through Lisa Raitt. Unless the government is unbelievably stupid they would have predicted the anger that would naturally result and went ahead and did it anyway. You know nothing about any of that I'm guessing.

You also as a passenger in the baggage hall have no clue whatsoever what was going on in YYZ the last week. Your little view from an aircraft porthole doesn't cut it.

[Beefitarian]

Tastes great! Less filling!

It's not a union problem. They're just taking orders.

Lousy snow removal is a management issue. YYC gets those hot cold melt freeze conditions, my wife's sidewalk is suffering from it right now. But surprise, they are still running the airport here.

[Married a Canadian]

I work Air traffic control at YYZ which means I should be the most vocal GTAA critic out there...and for most of the year..I am....but this time...I really cannot believe all the sniping made about YYZ and the GTAA in the conditions this week..and the comparisons to YXE and YEG and YWG etc.

If the armchair critics out there really believe that the GTAA should have kept ALL the runways ploughed, clear of ice, ALL the taxiways ploughed and clear of ice, kept ALL the ramp areas clear and clean of ice while dealing with 1200 movements plus a day PLUS the diversions from Ottawa, Montreal and the Island (which the media dosen't mention), while deicing all the departures who were freezing up in line, finding room for all the heavies like the A380 and 787s (which they have in YXE and YWG!), making sure all the gates are vacated for the 20+ diversions etc etc
Winter ops at YYZ are more efficient than MANY airports round the world..and I have worked in the UK where they should know how to do it better...but don't!.

So the weather is worse elsewhere eh? So other airports do it better than YYZ eh? Show me like for like that does it better than YYZ (420000 movements plus please) and we can discuss it.

Leave criticising the GTAA to the airlines and air traffic control

[Bede]

Married a Canadian,

No one is saying there should have been no delays. Yes it sucked. Delays were inevitable. However, what I have said is that the delays were completely unreasonable given the conditions. All I want to know is why there were only 2 fuel truck available that night holding up departures and leaving my passengers and me sitting on a taxiway for 4.5hrs.

BTW, Great work running YYZ ATC- it's a very well run center for the amount of traffic it handles. Cheers.

[co-joe]

Well those wimps up in YFB aren't much better. Shut the airport down because it got a little breezy yesterday.

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Then after the wind calmed down it was something about an altimeter settting being so low the altitude sensing thing-a-ma-bob wouldn't work on the planes. Excuses excuses.

CYFB 080600Z 09045KT 1 1/2SM -SN BLSN VV003 A2786 RMK BLSN8

27.86? Seriously? Hurricane eyes don't get that low!

I remember one of those storms in YFB when I was there. Nobody flew for 3 days. I went for a walk just to get out of the crew house and every three blinks my eye lashes would freeze together and I'd have to take my glove off to thaw them with my fingers.