Malaysian plane shot down, crashes in Ukraine

[Mig29]

you are so convinced in your own ideas that you fail to see the obvious in front of you!

those so called "rebels" have actually GIVEN the black box over to the Dutch and the international group who will examine the fdr/cvr tapes. If THEY were at fault, I bet they would hide or destroy it in the first place....but you say they were looting and moving evidence around....

If the West is so sure about Russian involvement in this shoot down, they would have created 3-D videos of this tragedy by now .

Do you guys think that over in Europe, communities of same ethnic backgrounds are segregated by borders?? The Russian speaking Ukrainians have families on both sides of the border for decades if not centuries....it's no surprise some have crossed over in uniform to fight against Ukrainian army to protect their relatives who are being shelled day and night by their OWN government! We are not talking about attacking only rebel positions, but actually cities full of civilians. And the west hasn't reported one newsworthy story about their struggle...

I can't understand a government who uses Su-25s in order to impose democracy on their own people!!?? But when Assad does this to fight off the obvious terrorists, then he's a tyrant and a threat to world's peace! pathetic

[FICU]

You seem to think the FDR and CVR will reveal the cause of the accident. Sorry but they will show only that the jet had an in flight break up. They will not have information that a Su-25 or a SA-11 shot it down I'm afraid. Let's patiently await for the report.

[Mig29]

Potentially, but I'm no expert, like most if not all of us here on Avcanada:) I hope time will tell the truth...

But I'm pretty sure if someone purposely messed up, they would try to hide any evidence.

[2R]

I can just imagine the panic if the Russians were to withhold ATC RADAR tapes of any aircraft that was shot down in their territory ,Radar tapes that might offer clues to what did bring down the plane .
Ground to air, or air to air missiles ?.Radar tapes that would show any unusual fighter aircraft in the vicinity of foreign VIP flights.
The fact that the Kiev regime continues to refuse all requests made in the United Nations to produce the evidence means we should keep our powder dry until we have all the facts and know the truth.

Why does Kiev think it can ignore multiple UN requests for the ATC RADAR tapes ?
Are they not required by ICAO to produce them in a timely fashion ?

Can you imagine the chaos if Ottawa was to ban the use of French ,the way the those who staged a coup in Kiev banned Russian by Russian speakers in the Ukraine ?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

MH17 crashed 17 NM from the Russian border and 67 NM from the Rostov-on-Don airport, Russia, a major Russian International airport serviced by many international Airlines including (Lufthansa (Star Alliance). The crash site was, however, 350 NM from Kiev.

The Russians should have RADAR tapes as well.

I can think of 4 airliners that were shot down by the military. Two Korean airlines aircraft, both shot down by the Russians, both by intercepting fighter aircraft, an Iranian Airliner shot down by the Americans, and a Russian Airliner shot down by Ukraine. Both of these last two shot down by Navy missiles.

The truth has always surfaced in these past cases, the truth will surface again this time, its just a matter of time.

[7ECA]

The Dutch Safety Board, released their preliminary report into the crash of MH17.

"Based on the preliminary findings to date, no indications of any technical or operational issues were found with the aircraft or crew prior to the ending of the CVR and FDR recording at 13.20:03 hrs.

The damage observed in the forward section of the aircraft appears to indicate that the aircraft was penetrated by a large number of high-energy objects from outside the aircraft. It is likely that this damage resulted in a loss of structural integrity of the aircraft, leading to an in-flight break up."

http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/ph ... actief.pdf

[Johnny#5]

Fernandes is the money behind Air Asia - a fierce and major competitor to Malaysian.

His good buddy is Bush Jr. and the rest of that shady bunch.

Malaysian has had some weird shit happen to them as of late...

Hmmm.....

[Whisperjet]

English video about the Dutch Safety Board's investigation: https://youtu.be/KDiLEyT9spI

[Strobes]

I personally find the report made by the SA11 Buk missile manufacturer more interesting than the DSB one. That they went through the trouble to actually detonate a missile beside an IL-86 cockpit shows that they definitely put the effort to demonstrate that the missile model was not the one described in the DSB report. If we are to believe the claim that the newer warhead creates butterfly-shaped shrapnel, and the pictures from the investigation, combined with the fact that Ukraine has the older version but Russia and the rebels do not, then it is a very plausible conclusion that the missile was indeed fired from withing UKR government territory.

I, for one, believe in Russians and the Ukrainian rebels more in this story than the regime in Kiev.

And, I know it was a year ago, but Gilles' comment a year ago about Russian radar tapes... They were released, and show a Ukrainian Air Force Su-25 radar return behind MH17. Google "MH17 russian radar tapes".

[CpnCrunch]

combined with the fact that Ukraine has the older version but Russia and the rebels do not

Where does that "fact" come from? I thought the rebels stole a BUK from Ukraine.

I, for one, believe in Russians and the Ukrainian rebels more in this story than the regime in Kiev.

I believe the DSB a lot more than I believe anything from Russia's propoganda machine.

[cncpc]

I personally find the report made by the SA11 Buk missile manufacturer more interesting than the DSB one. That they went through the trouble to actually detonate a missile beside an IL-86 cockpit shows that they definitely put the effort to demonstrate that the missile model was not the one described in the DSB report. If we are to believe the claim that the newer warhead creates butterfly-shaped shrapnel, and the pictures from the investigation, combined with the fact that Ukraine has the older version but Russia and the rebels do not, then it is a very plausible conclusion that the missile was indeed fired from withing UKR government territory.

I, for one, believe in Russians and the Ukrainian rebels more in this story than the regime in Kiev.

And, I know it was a year ago, but Gilles' comment a year ago about Russian radar tapes... They were released, and show a Ukrainian Air Force Su-25 radar return behind MH17. Google "MH17 russian radar tapes".

The flaw in the manufacturer test was that it was static. In the real event, the closing speed of the two objects may have been over 1000 mph.

[7ECA]

The flaw in the manufacturer test was that it was static. In the real event, the closing speed of the two objects may have been over 1000 mph.

That and the fact that they are trying to continue on with the party line...

A tragic loss of life, and sadly the people in the back knew what was going on, as passengers were found with O2 masks on.