Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

[chesty]

How did Mickey end up with a good lookin girl like that? Way to go Mickey!

[Stevo226]

Here's a question:

The crews keep talking about what if they had to ditch in the north atlantic. I realize the waves would probably rip them apart, but can't those waterbombers land on water? or when they scoop up the stuff, do they have to keep the speed up and just ride along the surface?

[highlander]

CYXE- I think you missed my point or part of my explanation. I'm not saying that every profession requires you to do different tasks.....but what i am saying is that if you want to get ahead, it's often not just seniority that people take into account. That might not be fair but it is reality. Yes, unfortunately, in aviation, to get ahead you have to often prove yourself in other jobs....many of us have done this, myself included. If anything I think it keeps you honest, humble and grounded (pardon the pun)

But since you asked, and I mean no disrespect CYXE- Here are some professions where often to get to the top you start at the bottom.

Executive Chefs- Often start as servers, dishwashers, sous chefs before they can lead a kitchen

Lawyers- Articling or research

Doctors- Often must complete residency in medical areas that are not their choice in order to work in their chosen fields. Some often start as lab assistants or orderlies to gain experience in the medical field.

School Principal- Often starts as a teacher who often starts as a volunteer or teacher's assistant.

Director/Manager for financial institution- Often starts as an analyst and works up. My brother is in this industry and he works even longer hours than we do.

I'm not sure I agree with your use of the term Trained Professional. I think this term is easy to apply but really, what does it mean, how is it interpreted? I know this next bit will really upset you and some people but here it goes- I would be very careful calling a 200 hour pilot with a multi-ifr and CPL a trained professional. I'm not saying they are not a good pilot, or are not professional in their manners or abilities.....but I would think the grey area in this interpretation is experience?

I have worked on many a ramp and in the office and I believe that the skills I learned from those positions (as well as what you learn about the iner workings of the company) have helped me with my job as a pilot.

[ChallengerDan]

These CL215 are designed to skim across calm strectches of water, will probably stay afloat on a calm sea, but definately not designed to float on the rough winter north atlantic.
The problem is not getting down, but to survive once you are down there.

And of course the TV show overemphasize the possible outcome.

You still need good size balls to ferry 215s across the pond in winter though, no doubt.

[The Old Fogducker]

If I recall correctly, max wave height for scooping is 24 inches according to the manual ... but it is a few years since I looked at the book.

OFD

[cyxe]

CYXE- I think you missed my point or part of my explanation. I'm not saying that every profession requires you to do different tasks.....but what i am saying is that if you want to get ahead, it's often not just seniority that people take into account. That might not be fair but it is reality. Yes, unfortunately, in aviation, to get ahead you have to often prove yourself in other jobs....many of us have done this, myself included. If anything I think it keeps you honest, humble and grounded (pardon the pun)

But since you asked, and I mean no disrespect CYXE- Here are some professions where often to get to the top you start at the bottom.

Executive Chefs- Often start as servers, dishwashers, sous chefs before they can lead a kitchen

Lawyers- Articling or research

Doctors- Often must complete residency in medical areas that are not their choice in order to work in their chosen fields. Some often start as lab assistants or orderlies to gain experience in the medical field.

School Principal- Often starts as a teacher who often starts as a volunteer or teacher's assistant.

Director/Manager for financial institution- Often starts as an analyst and works up. My brother is in this industry and he works even longer hours than we do.

I'm not sure I agree with your use of the term Trained Professional. I think this term is easy to apply but really, what does it mean, how is it interpreted? I know this next bit will really upset you and some people but here it goes- I would be very careful calling a 200 hour pilot with a multi-ifr and CPL a trained professional. I'm not saying they are not a good pilot, or are not professional in their manners or abilities.....but I would think the grey area in this interpretation is experience?

I have worked on many a ramp and in the office and I believe that the skills I learned from those positions (as well as what you learn about the iner workings of the company) have helped me with my job as a pilot.

I certainly agree that it's not just seniority that comes into play. And I completely agree that things you learn from working the ramp and the office are valuable down the road. It's the notion that this "has to happen" and that's "the way it's done" that I take issue with.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree with your examples. Lawyers - yes they start "at the bottom" articling - but they are practicing law. They aren't hired to work reception in a law office at the start of their career (after getting their degree). Sure they might "hang out" at the law office before law school sweeping floors and shining shoes, and maybe even during their training, but not when they're done their training. Doctors - there isn't a single MD grad that starts work as anything other than an MD. Junior MD sure, resident yes. Need plenty of mentorship? You bet. Want one taking out your appendix? Probably not - at least not without someone more experienced in the "left seat". But they are practicing physicians, doing what they trained to do. Same with education / principals. Once they are done their training and get their credentials - they start working as what they are trained as (well...assuming they find a job). Not as a receptionist or a housekeeper or what have you. With equal respect Highlander I don't think those examples are comparable and I stand by the notion that aviation is one of the only (I would say only but there must be a few others) careers where after your training is done and you have your credentials (muti ifr cpl whatever) you need to then work as something else to pay your dues.

I would disagree that a 200hr CPL multi IFR is not a trained professional. Tell that to the passenger in the 185 on floats that Mr. (Mrs) 263 hr CPL is flying up to Upchuckmatuk. Maybe that's part of a bigger problem really - the perception that they're not. Of course they are low experience, juniors, novices, ham fisted whatever you want to call them and need plenty of mentorship, guidance, experience and wisdom...and hours. But they are professionals. IMHO.

I was expecting to have my head ripped off so I appreciate the civil response

I also realize this is a bit of a tangent for the thread - sorry.

[C-GGGQ]

I was gonna say the same the CYXE but apparently it didn't post. thanks for not making me have to do it again

[North Shore]

If I recall correctly, max wave height for scooping is 24 inches according to the manual ... but it is a few years since I looked at the book.

OFD

Not bad memory for an old dog... 'course there's the Bombardier caveat of 'not considered limiting..'

ETA: "Never made a cake" wow. How do you get to be 20 (30?)-something without ever making a cake?

[_dwj_]

ETA: "Never made a cake" wow. How do you get to be 20 (30?)-something without ever making a cake?

What amused me more was him saying in the grocery store "where the f*k is the vegetable oil here...I can see canola oil, maize oil, ...., but no vegetable oil". Or did I just imagine that? (I wasn't paying too much attention while watching that bit).

[Kilo-Kilo]

What I don't understand is why they found it necessary to dedicate 20 or so minutes of airtime through the show to cake making and a wedding. With the 215 trip, the Cougar disaster, and the 188 re-config, you would think they would have had enough aviation related footage to make an interesting episode instead of "Arctic's Lamest Home Videos".

[allblueskies]

I thought the comedy relief of Mickey's cake making was great. It would seem that they are trying to make at least half of this about the kind of guys who work there and what they are really like rather than have the whole thing about the actual airplanes. Based on what they have shown in other episodes of the guys and their personal lives, I didn't think anymore time was really spent on it in this episode as compared to others. The point with AJ's wedding is that the Snow King Castle is a well known annual celebration here in Yellowknife and maybe not what the viewers are used to seeing. I think they are just trying to give the viewers a little glimpse of what YK is like.

[North Shore]

a little glimpse of what YK is like.

Expensive, really expensive, if the two packs of Betty Crocker + assorted other cake-making bits came to $65!

[longjon]

Did you notice that when Mikey was shopping and checking out he was weating his leather work gloves, Michael Jackson had nothing on Mikey. Ya gotta love Northeners.

[Cat Driver]

Do you need to bring KY to YK?

[Brewhouse]

NorthShore,

I am over 30 and I have never baked a cake. I bought one just the other day though.

[North Shore]

NorthShore,

I am over 30 and I have never baked a cake. I bought one just the other day though.

Here, try this: (Thanks, BMC)

5 MINUTE CHOCOLATE MUG CAKE
4 tablespoons flour
4 tablespoons sugar
2 tablespoons cocoa
1 egg
3 tablespoons milk
3 tablespoons oil
3 tablespoons chocolate chips (optional)
A small splash of vanilla extract
1 large coffee mug (MicroSafe)

Add dry ingredients to mug, and mix.
Add egg.
Pour in milk and oil.
Add the chocolate chips and vanilla extract.
Put mug in microwave for 3 min

Add a bit of vanilla ice cream, and off you go..

[Rubberbiscuit]

CYXE- I think you missed my point or part of my explanation. I'm not saying that every profession requires you to do different tasks.....but what i am saying is that if you want to get ahead, it's often not just seniority that people take into account. That might not be fair but it is reality. Yes, unfortunately, in aviation, to get ahead you have to often prove yourself in other jobs....many of us have done this, myself included. If anything I think it keeps you honest, humble and grounded (pardon the pun)

But since you asked, and I mean no disrespect CYXE- Here are some professions where often to get to the top you start at the bottom.

Executive Chefs- Often start as servers, dishwashers, sous chefs before they can lead a kitchen

Lawyers- Articling or research

Doctors- Often must complete residency in medical areas that are not their choice in order to work in their chosen fields. Some often start as lab assistants or orderlies to gain experience in the medical field.

School Principal- Often starts as a teacher who often starts as a volunteer or teacher's assistant.

Director/Manager for financial institution- Often starts as an analyst and works up. My brother is in this industry and he works even longer hours than we do.

I'm not sure I agree with your use of the term Trained Professional. I think this term is easy to apply but really, what does it mean, how is it interpreted? I know this next bit will really upset you and some people but here it goes- I would be very careful calling a 200 hour pilot with a multi-ifr and CPL a trained professional. I'm not saying they are not a good pilot, or are not professional in their manners or abilities.....but I would think the grey area in this interpretation is experience?

I have worked on many a ramp and in the office and I believe that the skills I learned from those positions (as well as what you learn about the iner workings of the company) have helped me with my job as a pilot.

Well said, and I agree for the most part. I'll throw in what I said in the other thread. You don't take a job like that on the ramp because you " have to do it"! You take it because you are looking for a flying job and the option might be working at Wal-Mart. You are far better off being in aviation meeting other pilots and get the wheels turning on building up your reputation as a hard working honest fella. Keep looking elsewhere in the meantime for that elusive first flying job and if it comes you obviously take it.

As far as the non-flying scenes go, remember this show wasn't made for pilots but the average public. The aforementioned average public would without a doubt loose interest quickly if it was all flying and airplanes.

[Solaris]

I am really enjoying the show, wish it were longer than one hour.

I found it hilarious that Mickey just had to put on the cake "Happy Birthday Dad This Cake Cost $65.00" Priceless !!!!

P.S. Thanks for that 5 min. choc. mug cake recipe North Shore,,,I'll try it later

[Brewhouse]

NorthShore,

I am over 30 and I have never baked a cake. I bought one just the other day though.

Here, try this: (Thanks, BMC)

5 MINUTE CHOCOLATE MUG CAKE
4 tablespoons flour
4 tablespoons sugar
2 tablespoons cocoa
1 egg
3 tablespoons milk
3 tablespoons oil
3 tablespoons chocolate chips (optional)
A small splash of vanilla extract
1 large coffee mug (MicroSafe)

Add dry ingredients to mug, and mix.
Add egg.
Pour in milk and oil.
Add the chocolate chips and vanilla extract.
Put mug in microwave for 3 min

Add a bit of vanilla ice cream, and off you go..

I think I will wait untill next May and you could treat us to that cake at the hanger

[North Shore]

^ Well, now that you at least know who I am, c'mon, man, even Fastlane managed to read the directions on a box of KD, and cook it up. Betty Crocker is the kd of the cake world. April 1st, I'm rolling into T-5 with a pack of Betty Crocker for you.. You do know what vegetable oil is?

[whistlerboy02]

Just looked at the video off the Ice Pilots website of the Electra landing. Look at the gravel the inboard props are picking up once reverse thrust is applied. Man the north is hard on props.... I think on last weeks show they said a prop overhaul was $75,000.
http://www.icepilots.com/fleet_electra.php
you"ll have to scroll down the page to the video box and its the 3rd video.

[highlander]

CYXE- I a respect your ideas Now with that said: hehehehe.

1) How can we define a trained professional? How can we define a trained professional in the context of aviation? (This is probably a totally different thread)

2) Ask yourself why a pilot with 200-250 hours is NOT OFTEN sought for an entry level flying position- I would suggest that insurance companies play a part in this. Our

3) Why do other professions (as you have suggested) not have similar "paths" that we as pilots generally go through? I would venture to say that some of it has to do with risk assessment. I still argue, that all of the professions I stated, have some form of entry level position that may/may not conform to what they actually want to be paid to do.

[ei ei owe]

Just looked at the video off the Ice Pilots website of the Electra landing. Look at the gravel the inboard props are picking up once reverse thrust is applied. Man the north is hard on props.....

Might not be all gravel. Could be some snow on the surface that's being whirled up? If it is all gravel, I can't imagine a prop being able to survive long.

[Kilo-Kilo]

C'mon....this thread has been idle for too long..

They were 'round filing resumes on the episode tonight and there are no cries of indignation?

[North Shore]

They are doing a pretty unsympathetic editing job on rampie whiner. I kinda felt sorry for him last week - this week, not so much. Yah, you're getting screwed, suck it up and get on with it..

They can't hire every resume that comes across their desk, so where do they put them? It'd be nice if they lived up to their green colour and recycled, but failing that, into the circular file. Mikey had a good point about preferring mailed resumes to faxed ones.

Man, I'd give my left nut to ferry a 215 across to Europe. This week's episode was really interesting from that point of view....