khedrei wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 12:14 pm
I dont think there is a single thing in this country that could be considered "world class" at this point. I really doubt a pilots contract at AC (the western world's most pathetic national carrier) is going to to be the first thing to achieve that status.
I do hope I'm wrong because it will help all the pilots out, but the pragmatist in me doesn't see it.
Ill put my prediction here for future reference...
WJ +5-10%
The majority of the AC Pilot group won't accept anywhere close to that and has more to gain than the company has to lose.
There's no way we come back from a strike/lockout scenario for less than 2003 plus inflation and a rollback of 20 years of concessions on quality of life, scheduling, vacation, reserve, and more.
About 1/3 of the AC list will earn more on strike than at work today.
AC can FAFO or get real, and they better real quick. 60 day timer starts this week. Now is the time. Whatever it takes.
The majority of the AC Pilot group won't accept anywhere close to that and has more to gain than the company has to lose.
There's no way we come back from a strike/lockout scenario for less than 2003 plus inflation and a rollback of 20 years of concessions on quality of life, scheduling, vacation, reserve, and more.
About 1/3 of the AC list will earn more on strike than at work today.
AC can FAFO or get real, and they better real quick. 60 day timer starts this week. Now is the time. Whatever it takes.
I am prepared to walk for months if needed. I have more than enough money saved up, and am ready to do what is nessicary to regain a industry standard contract.
Everyone download a Delta contract copy. If its not the same keep voting NO. Alpa strike is better anyway for a major chunk of pilots. A lot have already saved up for strike. We will not undervalue ourselves. What is a reasonable year one FO pay? Is it 100k, 130k, $150k or $170k? What is a reasonable year 2 FO pay? Is it 170k? Is it 200k?
khedrei wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 12:14 pm
I dont think there is a single thing in this country that could be considered "world class" at this point. I really doubt a pilots contract at AC (the western world's most pathetic national carrier) is going to to be the first thing to achieve that status.
I do hope I'm wrong because it will help all the pilots out, but the pragmatist in me doesn't see it.
Ill put my prediction here for future reference...
WJ +5-10%
I’ll put my prediction here as well then.
WJ +5-10% is substantially less than we made prior to 911. This group, for various reasons, has not been able to recover from bankruptcy protection. This is our first opportunity.
So if you are right. That the BOD will refuse to give back what we gave for the survival of this company.
There will be a strike in September.
The window is getting narrower. Anywhere from September 17-21 depending on when a conciliator is appointed.
altiplano wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 8:36 am
I would expect that a conciliator will be appointed today.
If the feds wait until next week it won't be until Tuesday and that makes the 16th day.
I believe once the notice is given (on a business day), the 15 day clock starts regardless of weekends or holidays. Therefore the deadline is July 1 (Monday).
I like the Idea and Im not planning on voting yes on anything less than Delta contract. Everyone seems to think that a strike will be enough to get what we deserve. But are the feds really gonna let us strike, if so for how long. I really doubt the government will let us walk for more than few hours because it will affect the economic security of the country and the company probably know more on this. So once the government vote for that back to work legislation, what leverage do we have left? What is the next play. I think we should all be on the same page on this and know exatly what will need to be done at this point to get this wcc.
nowind wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 3:55 pm
I like the Idea and Im not planning on voting yes on anything less than Delta contract. Everyone seems to think that a strike will be enough to get what we deserve. But are the feds really gonna let us strike, if so for how long. I really doubt the government will let us walk for more than few hours because it will affect the economic security of the country and the company probably know more on this. So once the government vote for that back to work legislation, what leverage do we have left? What is the next play. I think we should all be on the same page on this and know exatly what will need to be done at this point to get this wcc.
You have to understand how legislation gets passed. This is a minority government. They can’t pass legislation by themselves, they require support from another party. Currently they have a confidence and supply arrangement with the NDP. The NDP will never support back to work legislation, it would be political suicide. Jagmeet has publicly stated this on several occasions. The conservatives won’t support anything the liberals propose, they will literally just do the opposite.
So they will have an extremely difficult time trying to pass legislation to get us back to work, and even if they somehow pull it off it will not be a quick process, as the constitutional right to strike has been confirmed by the Supreme Court. They can draft legislation after a strike has begun, but not preemptively prevent one from happening.
Yeah I get all that but Im still convinced they will find a way to get us back to work…you forgot about the bloc quebecois….and Im still not sure the conservative would not approve it. Once we give that 72 hours notice, things will move fast and we need to stop thinking that it wont happen and start thinking ahead. They might give us few days to get a ta but the feds will intervene a some point.
nowind wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 4:23 pm
Yeah I get all that but Im still convinced they will find a way to get us back to work…you forgot about the bloc quebecois….and Im still not sure the conservative would not approve it. Once we give that 72 hours notice, things will move fast and we need to stop thinking that it wont happen and start thinking ahead. They might give us few days to get a ta but the feds will intervene a some point.
Nobody has stopped thinking that it won’t happen. The MEC has said they have contingency plans for as many scenarios as they can think of. They are not just sitting around with their fingers in their ears pretending it could never happen. They expect it to be unlikely but are prepared for every eventuality they can.
AMEs just walked off the job. Their claim is that even with the arbitration ruling, the government was silent on their strike notice and therefore is still valid.
nowind wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 4:23 pm
Yeah I get all that but Im still convinced they will find a way to get us back to work…you forgot about the bloc quebecois….and Im still not sure the conservative would not approve it. Once we give that 72 hours notice, things will move fast and we need to stop thinking that it wont happen and start thinking ahead. They might give us few days to get a ta but the feds will intervene a some point.
Nobody has stopped thinking that it won’t happen. The MEC has said they have contingency plans for as many scenarios as they can think of. They are not just sitting around with their fingers in their ears pretending it could never happen. They expect it to be unlikely but are prepared for every eventuality they can.
I'm an optimist.
*conspiracy mode on*
I think the government might actually work in the pilots' favor behind the scenes. Especially if this WestJet strike turns ugly. They'll want to avoid a long strike. I suspect there won't be a strike, there'll be a deus ex machina a few hours before the strike. And then a few months later some weird regulation or fee structure will be changed, which will seem neutral but will benefit AC hugely at the expense of the other operators. Perhaps something like an increase in passenger taxes that will be capped for certain wide body airplane types of a certain size etc. Of course those new rules will have been in the making for years and will have no relation whatsoever to the recent labour actions.
*conspiracy mode off*
---------- ADS -----------
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
altiplano wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 8:36 am
I would expect that a conciliator will be appointed today.
If the feds wait until next week it won't be until Tuesday and that makes the 16th day.
I believe once the notice is given (on a business day), the 15 day clock starts regardless of weekends or holidays. Therefore the deadline is July 1 (Monday).
It came down yesterday anyway... but my only point was that July 1st was the deadline, but it's a holiday. There's nobody in the CIRB office to make announcements on a long weekend.
