Beaver down off Saturna island (Updates)

[ajet32]

"Prop Feather" Never heard of a Beaver with a feathering propellor. I imagine that is damage from hitting the water with the engine making close to full power. Certainly stand to be corrected if anyone has more information.

[Kilo-Kilo]

"Prop Feather" Never heard of a Beaver with a feathering propellor. I imagine that is damage from hitting the water with the engine making close to full power. Certainly stand to be corrected if anyone has more information.

With the top two prop blades in the photo being bent in opposite directions I would imagine full power not likely. But in all honestly I have no idea how props react to water strikes.

[glorifiedtaxidriver]

"Prop Feather" Never heard of a Beaver with a feathering propellor. I imagine that is damage from hitting the water with the engine making close to full power. Certainly stand to be corrected if anyone has more information.

With the top two prop blades in the photo being bent in opposite directions I would imagine full power not likely. But in all honestly I have no idea how props react to water strikes.

Well, It looks like two of the blades are bent as if they contacted the water at high power. The one blade that is bent the opposite direction likely contacted something on impact. I noticed the right wing is no longer attached. It may have come forward and bent the blade back. Also, the engine is significantly angled down which indicates a fairly heavy impact in a downward motion, not forward, as if the airplane got airborne and came down heavy on a swell and broke the engine mounts. All speculation of course. Either way, a tragedy for all involved.

[NWONT]

I hate to stir up more spectulation but...if that is a counterweight prop there are pins that can fail, and individual blades can go to the feather position. The few times I've seen this happen was always on takeoff. If its a hydromatic prop then a different story. I have never seen a spinner on a counterweight prop but there is a lot of things I've never seen.

[light chop]

With all due respect to everyone involved - how come this Beaver is being pulled up so quickly and it seems like the TSB is all over this one as compared to Widow's accident where it seems the TSB wasn't even interested in getting the plane out of the water? Am I missing something?

[flyinthebug]

With all due respect to everyone involved - how come this Beaver is being pulled up so quickly and it seems like the TSB is all over this one as compared to Widow's accident where it seems the TSB wasn't even interested in getting the plane out of the water? Am I missing something?

Id like to think that Widow and many others efforts with the TSB and TC are finally starting to make a difference? Just a thought.

[Bulawrench]

It is important to raise the aircraft as soon as possible. The magnesium goes on the engine very quickly.
There was no sign of engine failure. the TSB will report clearly what happened. Give some distance on speculations in respect of the departed. A very sad time for all in the industry. We must carry on but please be safe out there.

[Olpucker]

With all due respect to everyone involved - how come this Beaver is being pulled up so quickly and it seems like the TSB is all over this one as compared to Widow's accident where it seems the TSB wasn't even interested in getting the plane out of the water? Am I missing something?

I would like to hope that Widow's efforts along with others is making a difference as well.

Other factors to consider is the fact that they had a pretty good idea of where the plane was from witnesses, it was in shallower water and the pilot survived. Not too many times are the TSB going to be able to fully investigate an accident where a float plane crashes, and for that matter crashed in to water. By a full investigation I mean one in which they can not only analyze the aircraft, but the pilot's story and that of a passenger. Small aircraft crashes normally kill the pilot on impact.

[RatherBeFlying]

News reports have a witness stating he saw a flash and turned his head to see the a/c in a nose dive.

Possible sources of a flash are: wire strike, structural failure, sun glint perhaps from piece coming off.

The AP pics show a wing missing.

There was a spar failure on a seaplane in Florida not long ago.

[MichaelP]

There are many concerned people reading this thread, I had a PM from one saying the weather conditions were good enough for normal operations.

Sunday
On my note pad I was airborne from 13:00 to 13:52 PST at Boundary Bay in the Citabria.
I commented: "A lot of windshear" on my pad... I have notes for every flight I make.

I was airborne again from 15:14 to 16:26. At around 16:20 the wind was reported between 150 and 160 degrees 10G15. I looked at the windsocks and there was between an 80 degree and 90 degree crosswind on 25. It was not outside my ability to land with this amount of crosswind.
But
On finals the wind was very different to that shown by the windsocks, gusty and backed... I went around and landed on 12.

What I saw that afternoon was winds that were inconsistent and very difficult to predict.
If you combine terrain with such winds it would be very difficult to judge.

On the lee side of the buildings here it was calm, yet step out and there was the wind, climb a little and there was more wind and from a different direction.

Propeller.
The propeller on the R985 on the front of the Stearman I used to fly always stopped in coarse pitch.

Accidents we are told are caused by a chain of events.
How many things contributed to this chain?

We await the accident report, and regardless of the media reports discounting this and that, I am sure the investigators will take everything into account.

[viccoastdog]

"Propeller.
The propeller on the R985 on the front of the Stearman I used to fly always stopped in coarse pitch."

The three bladed prop mod often seen on Beaver around these parts normally stops in fine pitch and is moved to coarse pitch by oil pressure. There is most certainly no way to feather a prop on a Beaver.

[viccoastdog]

"Someone mentioned Gross Wt and CG issues - does anyone have a Beaver manual to run those figures, using full front, say? (not saying this was the cause, just curious as to whether it works on paper..)"

It works on paper. From a W & B I have for a Beaver that's worked on the coast with the same types of mods as the accident plane: With 150 lbs in the front tank, 4 male, 3 female, plus 1 infant and 100 lbs of bags the plane would still be almost 300 lbs shy of gross weight (not assuming an up-gross mod) and right at the rear C of G limit.

[North Shore]

^OK, thanks. According to this morning's paper, w&b and Cg has been ruled out.

Possible sources of a flash are: wire strike, structural failure, sun glint perhaps from piece coming off.

No wires across that area.

[xsbank]

On the counterweight Beav prop whenever we shut down for the night we used a bit of power and pulled the prop into coarse to retract the piston inside the drum to prevent corrosion on the barrel. You were also taught to pull the prop into coarse in the event of an engine quitting - you would get a better glide. That prop in the photo would appear to be severely damaged from hitting something while the blade tips were at T/O speed - those blades are soft and those tremendous crash forces will just twist everything into junk. It shed its wing and floats so it hit hard.

Gust of wind? Shear? All more likely than a prop failure, IMHO.

Terrible loss.

[HS-748 2A]

I have extreme doubts about the witness accounts.

Every airplane has to emit fire balls, cough and bang, shed a few parts and then "nose-dive" before it crashes. People have just seen too many movies.

There's no point really in my saying that though untill the investigators release their findings but I doubt I will be eating crow.

RE: The prop, The impact damage to me looks pretty consistant with it chewing into the floats / water / cowling while producing high RPM. The one blade which has been commented on appearing to be bent backwards is actually bent the same as the other one but has completely broken it's lock and is turned 180'

Those Hartzells are rather wimpy compaired to the Hamilton Std 2Ds.

'48

[Taxi Driver]

The three bladed prop mod often seen on Beaver around these parts normally stops in fine pitch and is moved to coarse pitch by oil pressure. There is most certainly no way to feather a prop on a Beaver.

I believe that an operator on the mid Island got in trouble for installing a three blade prop off of a Goose or Beach on his beaver. I could be wrong but that prop would be able to feather. Right?

[HS-748 2A]

The three bladed prop mod often seen on Beaver around these parts normally stops in fine pitch and is moved to coarse pitch by oil pressure. There is most certainly no way to feather a prop on a Beaver.

I believe that an operator on the mid Island got in trouble for installing a three blade prop off of a Goose or Beach on his beaver. I could be wrong but that prop would be able to feather. Right?

The accident prop is not in 'feather'.



NEXT

[Taxi Driver]

Sorry I was unclear. I do not believe that accident one is. I think that that is bending the cause the engine was at high power when it contacted the water.


I was just saying that it may be possible to have a prop on a beaver feather.

[JOE BOY]

Has anyone heard the off camera statement from an eye witness regarding the treeline not being cleared a loud pop a/c banking sharply to find itself in a nose down attitude? Any of you guy's out there that know the area and wind direction that could cause this direction of take-off? Any validity to this witness comment?

[North Shore]

Here are the google earth coords of the Saturna ferry dock. The floatplane dock is at the end of the longer jetty just to the East of the dock..Saturna Ferry dock located at 48 deg 47min 53.40sec North, 123d 12m 05.21sec West. Take off zone in the channel to the North of that

[JOE BOY]

Thanks north shore! I guess the question remains are these in your or any av canada poster's eye witness account/explanation seem plausable or succinct with the accident pics? Curious as to all opinions and thoughts...

Thanks,

[PAXUNK]

As a Beaver floatplane passenger, flying with any operator, there are two things that bother me:
1) Given the importance of weight and balance, how can the pilot be sure of the load unless he weighs each passenger and their baggage?
2) Evacuating the Beaver requires exceptional cooperation from all the passengers. The rear seat passengers cannot exit unless the middle seat passengers are able to exit first.

[xsbank]

We use standard weights for passengers based on season, sex and if they are children, as mandated by Transport Canada. If the seats are filled from the front first, logic puts the smallest in the back but so does comfort. You cannot load a Beav out of C of G if its full of passengers and the cargo area is not full of rocks.

Its true about evacuating a Beaver in sequence, but that's true for every aircraft - just think of the flight attendant standing in the aisle during a pre-take-off brief when she points to 6 exits in the Airbus you are riding in. You would have to wait for others to exit first depending upon where you sit in proximity to the exit. It would have to be a very small aircraft for each passenger to have his own exit!

[JOE BOY]

I work for an operator who weigh's everything...something very new to me. Great practice in my opinion as compared to using the standard Transport weights. As we all know our southern neighbour's are never for the most part within transport's numbers. I also think that the beaver pax door lever should have been moded to the forward position of the door. I would always brief my right hand pax to reach over and open the left door and the reverse for the left hand side pax. In all honesty these pax were so big that even reaching over while the a/c was static proved to be a chore let alone in an egress situation. In my humble opinion...anyone else see this as being a problem with the rear door?

[Widow]

Is anyone familiar with the quick release door of the military Beaver? Or why it was removed for civilian config?