How to collect 1500 hrs

[ahramin]

All Your Base Are Belong to Us.

Ah, finally something from CS relevant to the discussion .

For the non computer geeks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVsijmCFs50

Haven't seen that in a decade, thought it died out years ago.

[ahramin]

Anyone notice that the original poster hasn't been here in almost a month? Who are you guys talking to?

[ahramin]

PS I hold two ATP's

I like to think that the plural of ATP is ATPs, but I digress. Just curious what types you have flown that require an ATP?

[iflyforpie]

Anyone notice that the original poster hasn't been here in almost a month? Who are you guys talking to?

We are talking to ourselves.... just hijack a dead thread and use it for our own purposes.

Plus... Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[ahramin]

Uh ... holy crapper. I've read that 5 times now and each time I read it, it either makes more sense or less sense and I can't figure out which one it is. Not sure what your goal was but if it was what I think it was you succeeded.

The fact that it's 1 am in London and I'm watching Fantastic Mr. Fox because I can't sleep doesn't help either.

[Boreas]

Oh no, not the jet pictures! I guess you've made some really
good points here, and feel you need to back them up with the
numbers of ATPs you have. I only have the TC one, but I'm sure
the differences exam for the FAA conversion was real challenging...

Alright, I should have said:
Don't pay for time building once you have a CPL.

The idea of 'buying' 1500h in order to get an airline job, whether
its on your own aircraft or not, is absurd.

[Colonel Sanders]

Congratulations! No more instructors in Canada,
because they sure don't give away instructor
ratings.

And according to you, no CPL should pay for
a multi endorsement or an instrument rating,
either. Or a float rating.

Do you get your stuff out of Mao's "Little Red Book"?
Or from Jack Layton or Buzz Hargrove?

[PilotDAR]

Alright, I should have said:
Don't pay for time building once you have a CPL.

The idea of 'buying' 1500h in order to get an airline job, whether
its on your own aircraft or not, is absurd.

Well I disagree with that!

To be a competent pilot you must have skill and experience. The skill comes from training and practice, and the experience is more of that practice in varying conditions and places. How would one expect to receive that training, and amass the flying experience, without paying for it? Trainers cost money, and so does the operation of an aircraft.

Sure, a new pilot might get some training and experience from an entry level pilot job, but it is certain that such a job would have opportunity constraints which would limit the skill building within a narrow band. The ONLY way to increase that will be paying the costs associated with more training, and operating and aircraft.

The suggestion that a "graduate" should no longer pay for more education does not work for post secondary education, why would it for flying?

[Boreas]

There's a fundamental difference between time building
you way to 1500h and getting a rating, and you both
know it.

Please don't advocate the former.

[rxl]

Owning and flying your own airplane or renting someone else's are valid ways to gain some very important "stick and rudder" experience and work towards that "magical" 1500 hours.

Flying an airplane for "hire or reward" adds another another dynamic to the experience of flying airplanes - a dynamic that can only be experienced by doing just that - being paid to fly an airplane.

The pressures felt when flying an airplane for your own enjoyment and on your own time are very different from the pressures felt when being paid by SOMEONE ELSE to fly THEIR airplane when and where THEY want.

One of the most important things ALL pilots need to learn is when to say NO.
It's a very different thing to say NO to the boss or to the customers than to say NO to yourself or your flying buddies.

By the way, I wear my four-bars with humility but with great pride because I have earned them.

[PilotDAR]

There's a fundamental difference between time building
you way to 1500h and getting a rating, and you both
know it.

Of course, and both are important (other than to say, we don't "time build" we "experience build" - unfortunately, some people try to quantify experience using units of time)

However, the notion that a new CPL, should now stand by dispatch and refuse to fly anything if they are expected to pay the cost of the flight is silliness. Sure, that new CPL might get a job, and go and fly, great. But if not, or in addition to, that pilot should initiate AND PAY FOR more more flying opportunities.

I think back to a tour operator I knew, who had a fleet of 206's for a very specific tour route, only about 10 miles long - with ZERO variation. He'd hire any reasonable CPL to fly that, because as he told me, there was nearly no opportunity for them to make a decision during a normal flight, so they would not get in too much trouble. So now we have our CPL pilot, with 1200 hours of doing that, with, in my opinion, very very little relevant flying experience to support a job application further up the ladder.

Piloting experience, which is valuable, is a mixture of many variations of experience, some of which a lesser experienced pilot should be prepared to pay for....

One of the most important things ALL pilots need to learn is when to say NO.
It's a very different thing to say NO to the boss or to the customers than to say NO to yourself or your flying buddies.

By the way, I wear my four-bars with humility but with great pride because I have earned them.

A valuable comment which I appreciate. It can be taken to support either side of the argument in context, and that is a part of the value I perceive....

[iflyforpie]

In general, this is how I rate 'paying for your own time' and 'flying for free'.

Paying for initial licenses, ratings, and endorsements. = OK

Volunteering for a non-profit organization (gliding club, Air Cadets, etc). = OK

Flying for your own pleasure to places that you want to go with people you want to be with. = OK

Paying to fly or flying for free for someone who is making money off of your efforts. = NOT OK!!

Paying for company-specific training required for someone to use you to make money. = NOT OK!!

Are you going to get a right seat on a Dash-8 or 737 with 1500 hours of 150 time? Probably not. But you will for sure get further than someone who got their licenses and didn't use them at all in the oversaturated low time market. Even 500 PIC opens up a ton of doors.