No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

[iflyroads]

At what point are the deferred recalls obligated to return? Or are they on LOA?

Next VPS will be "accept the position or request an LOA"

After which, hiring will one again commence.

Still on track to have everyone back by summer/mid summer. Hoping to run a new hire class late summer/early fall.

If there are a significant amount of LOAs granted on the next VPS those timelines can move up.

[bob99]

AC ran bids showing 1000-1500 vacancies for years and years prior to covid and never intended to staff them all. I’d be more surprised if they did plan to hire the -300 this bid shows than if they just ran with the deficit.

None of this is true at all. The largest bid ever was in the 900s. That was in 2019 and they were hiring and training as much as they possibly could. In 2018 every bid was less than 500.

[Flatline]

Anyone knows when VPS4.0 is going to take place?

[PostmasterGeneral]

Anyone knows when VPS4.0 is going to take place?

22-01 closes March 17. Give it a week or two after that for the results to be published, and then they’ll run a VPS probably a week after that to backfill the vacancies.

[Ash Ketchum]

Any guesses when and if AC will start hiring in 2022?

[bob99]

Recalls will be back by July. Hiring will begin after that. Update from Feb was 250 new hires this year.

[Malfunction]

Are RP spots being offered? How long are new pilots on res if they are able to hold a rp spot?

[PostmasterGeneral]

Spots on pretty much everything aside from YVR this bid. Some positions going strangely senior.

My guess is lots of YYZ 320 spots and freighter will go to new hires this summer. RP can be weird, (more so wide body FO) there is often a big “jump” in seniority between the bottom group on the list and the others, because if you’re not senior enough to hold a block, most tend to bid off and the bottom 30% can be a bit of a rotating door on some fleets.

To answer your question, budget 12-18 months on reserve unless things really spool up.

[Admiral Benson]

I'm sure it's very type dependent. But how long would it take to be able to hold YVR base these days? Seems like the recovery has been fairly eastern focused.

[PostmasterGeneral]

I'm sure it's very type dependent. But how long would it take to be able to hold YVR base these days? Seems like the recovery has been fairly eastern focused.

It could be years if the Asia flying stays stagnant. That’s the lions share of the stuff done out of YVR, and if there’s no widebodies going to Asia, there’s no need for narrowbodies to feed them.

If the Asia flying returns quickly, it could be sooner.

[altiplano]

I'm sure it's very type dependent. But how long would it take to be able to hold YVR base these days? Seems like the recovery has been fairly eastern focused.

There's 52 vacancies in YVR on this bid... We'll see when it closes what's left.

It may seem like YYZ is ahead on the recovery, I think that's incorrect though. It was by far the hardest hit base in number of lost positions and also the hardest hit in terms of relative number of positions lost in the first big 2020 down bid.

YYZ 2999 to 1828, 1171 positions lost, 39%.
YVR 1149 to 846, 303 positions lost, 26%.

Of the YYZ 1171 lost positions, 461 - 40% - were Captain positions versus YVR, 54 - 17% of the 303 were Captain positions, a large proportion of the YVR losses were RPs.

Now?

YYZ 2461 82% of its prepandemic positions.
YVR 957 84% of its prepandemic positions.

It's not a contest, but those are the numbers...

[JoeyBarton]

For all the TS drivers YUL has fully recovered and attained its best crewing requirements ever. Even surpassed pre pandemic levels with captain positions so far going to 2018 DOH.
Good luck to all.

[Blueontop]

With all the hiring planned coming up, what’s the chances for the OTS hires? Will there be more percentage wise or will it still be the usual 80-90% jazz?

[Kapitanov]

With all the hiring planned coming up, what’s the chances for the OTS hires? Will there be more percentage wise or will it still be the usual 80-90% jazz?

The new collective agreement signed between Air Canada and Jazz in 2018 states that a minimum of 60% of new Air Canada pilots have to come from Express (only Jazz now). Since this is written in the contract the percentage won't change.

That leaves only up to 20% for OTS hires. And looking at the last few OTS hires in 2019, lots of 10K+ hour guys, but that should change. Not sure if a lot of experienced guys would apply at AC now that things are moving slower in terms of seniority and upgrades.

It seems like the (25-50?) guys that had their groundschool cancelled back in March 2020 will be (re)hired first, so if that 250 new hires plan in 2022 is accurate, that would leave about 80 OTS spots for 2022, and I guess it's going to be very competitive.

[a220hereicome]

With all the hiring planned coming up, what’s the chances for the OTS hires? Will there be more percentage wise or will it still be the usual 80-90% jazz?

Not sure if a lot of experienced guys would apply at AC now that things are moving slower in terms of seniority and upgrades.

The latest equipment bid shows the junior NB CA positions in UL, YZ and VR at about 4 years seniority. Historically, that’s on the better end. Even hired at age 50, that would still give 10 years in the left seat.

I guess it depends on what you define as “slow” advancement.

[sstaurus]

I would be surprised if Jazz can afford to give up enough pilots to maintain that 80% or whatever the number is, and keep the operation properly staffed.

Working conditions aside, is it really only Encore that can’t sustain flow to the mother ship?

[rudder]

The new collective agreement signed between Air Canada and Jazz in 2018 states that a minimum of 80% of new Air Canada pilots have to come from Express (only Jazz now). Since this is written in the contract the percentage won't change.

60%

SKV used to have 10% (for an Express total of 70%) but that disappeared with the consolidation of the SKV E75 flying in to Jazz.

[rudder]

I would be surprised if Jazz can afford to give up enough pilots to maintain that 80% or whatever the number is, and keep the operation properly staffed.

Working conditions aside, is it really only Encore that can’t sustain flow to the mother ship?

Under normal circumstances, Jazz has annual training capacity for up to 500 new-hire Initial Type courses, plus resulting internal upgrades both on type and Initial Type course associated with attrition due flow, retirement, or resignation.

Jazz hiring of 300-500 per annum was the norm pre-COVID.

[MontrealCanucks]

With all the hiring planned coming up, what’s the chances for the OTS hires? Will there be more percentage wise or will it still be the usual 80-90% jazz?

Not sure if a lot of experienced guys would apply at AC now that things are moving slower in terms of seniority and upgrades.

The latest equipment bid shows the junior NB CA positions in UL, YZ and VR at about 4 years seniority. Historically, that’s on the better end. Even hired at age 50, that would still give 10 years in the left seat.

I guess it depends on what you define as “slow” advancement.

They are junior because ACPA has been unable to make those positions attractive. Pathetic reserve rules after a gift from the government combined with zero commuting policy. Truly sad to see that people are pumping up bids with a false narrative.

If you can make it work to live near those airports, all the power to you. Those cities are some of the most expensive cities in the world. Its not for everyone.

With a labour shortage in all industries, its amazing the Koolaid some people will drink.

Pilots deserve better.

[rudder]

Not sure if a lot of experienced guys would apply at AC now that things are moving slower in terms of seniority and upgrades.

The latest equipment bid shows the junior NB CA positions in UL, YZ and VR at about 4 years seniority. Historically, that’s on the better end. Even hired at age 50, that would still give 10 years in the left seat.

I guess it depends on what you define as “slow” advancement.

They are junior because ACPA has been unable to make those positions attractive. Pathetic reserve rules after a gift from the government combined with zero commuting policy. Truly sad to see that people are pumping up bids with a false narrative.

If you can make it work to live near those airports, all the power to you. Those cities are some of the most expensive cities in the world. Its not for everyone.

With a labour shortage in all industries, its amazing the Koolaid some people will drink.

Pilots deserve better.

Aren’t many of the NB CA awards simply RIR’s from the last 2020 pre-COVID equipment bid? Or was that award cancelled (then the Reduction Bid was run)?

[a220hereicome]

Most of them are probably reinstatement rights, the interim bids don’t show that information (or at least I don’t know where to find it).

RIR or not, the time frame is currently 4 years for NB CA. As has always been the case, some bid the promotion and accept the loss of bidding seniority for higher earnings.

[a220hereicome]

They are junior because ACPA has been unable to make those positions attractive. Pathetic reserve rules after a gift from the government combined with zero commuting policy. Truly sad to see that people are pumping up bids with a false narrative.

With a labour shortage in all industries, its amazing the Koolaid some people will drink.

Pilots deserve better.

False narrative? Koolaid? An outsider is asking about advancement at the company. A few numbers showing the time frame to NB CA on the latest bid.

By your logic, things must be really crappy at UA or DL if their NB CA are going to pilots with only 2 years on the property.

If you can make it work to live near those airports, all the power to you. Those cities are some of the most expensive cities in the world. Its not for everyone.

Then I guess it’s Winnipeg for you!

[rudder]

Most of them are probably reinstatement rights, the interim bids don’t show that information (or at least I don’t know where to find it).

RIR or not, the time frame is currently 4 years for NB CA. As has always been the case, some bid the promotion and accept the loss of bidding seniority for higher earnings.

4 years is a recent reality. I think in the last ‘growth’ bid before COVID the award was even more junior (which never came to fruition).

I have a buddy who was a 1979 hire that waited 17 years for junior DC9 CA position. Times have sure changed. Now many, many unbid vacancies in the right seat of WB aircraft will go to pilots on salary rather than formula pay. Why would anybody bid aircraft size rather than relative roster seniority when the pay is the same?

Too many pay scales. Too many LOU’s. Too many operating certificates.

I wonder if it will ever change?

[rudder]

By your logic, things must be really crappy at UA or DL if their NB CA are going to pilots with only 2 years on the property.

At DL, a new-hire was awarded NYC NB CA as their starting position. Of course, this could only happen because no one ahead of them bid to be last on that roster.

However, this is not a function of a bad CBA. Quite the opposite. Instead, it is happening because of unprecedented hiring and growth preceded by unprecedented retirement attrition.

[TrustinThrust]

Looks like the AC hiring portal, for both Express and OTS, will be up and running again shortly. Job IDs created for both streams of applicants.