screwed, again

[pilotidentity]

Bottom line is when these new regs do come out most of us will have the opportunity to be more rested. Thanks to the unions that are pushing for a safer work environment.

There will always be pilots among us that will work themselves hard and never admit to anyone they are tired, be it for financial reasons, ego, or brown nosing.

[Meatservo]

There will always be pilots among us that will work themselves hard and never admit to anyone they are tired, be it for financial reasons, ego, or brown nosing.

..or they might not even be aware they are fatigued, OR they might not even BE fatigued. Maybe they are used to working hard. 14 hours at work don't necessarily instantly turn a normal person into a wilting, incompetent sleep-deprived zombie. Maybe they are the kind of person who doesn't like to stop until they finish the job they set out to do. Lots of reasons, they don't necessarily all have to be the less-laudible ones.

[Rockie]

14 hours at work don't necessarily instantly turn a normal person into a wilting, incompetent sleep-deprived zombie.

No it doesn't especially if it starts at 08:00, but unless you're a freak of nature you will be beat at the end of it. If that 14 hours starts at 22:00 though you will be a wilting, incompetent sleep-deprived zombie by noon the next day no matter who you are. There's been literally hundreds of studies done on this over the course of decades - some of them right here in Canada - that only the federal government and ATAC can pretend doesn't exist.

[Strobes]

Rockie, you're forgetting about the ability for the human body to change its circadian rhythm naturally. Such as adapting to new time zones. Otherwise all night freight guys are zombies.

Bottom line is when these new regs do come out most of us will have the opportunity to be more rested.

More rested, but what about workplace morale?


Also, if it's so beneficial, why is it that only ALPA is lobbying hard for these rules? My union has been silent. Others are putting in a feeble attempt (could be wrong, I get common viewpoints from other pilot groups as second-hand info), but only ALPA, who has most of it's membership in the US - which just updated their rules -, is going on a equal playing-field crusade and is "kicking and screaming" about this.

Remember, someone always is poised to make more money from increasing regulations. So... Where's the poop? Could it be they are scared of Canadian pilots suddenly being more desirable than american pilots, and using openskies to come in their market?

[Rockie]

Rockie, you're forgetting about the ability for the human body to change its circadian rhythm naturally. Such as adapting to new time zones. Otherwise all night freight guys are zombies.

No I'm not. Many, many years ago I worked steady nights in another industry and it wasn't a problem except for a vitamin D deficiency and beginning to feel like a vampire, plus a complete absence of any normal social life. Night freight pilots can do the same but I don't think it's particularly healthy over the long term, and that also presumes they never move off a night circadian rhythm which is not the case. Aside from them though pilots never really adapt to one time zone unless they are on vacation or senior enough to hold steady days. The vast majority of us constantly shift time zones in this 24/7/365 industry we're in, and the 22:00 check-in's are particularly rough even on a short duty period never mind 14 hours.

BTW who is your union? If it's WJPA I can tell you exactly why they aren't questioning the duty times, and if it's a small component of some other non-pilot specific union it's probably because they are totally unaware of the issue. It's not just ALPA either - the Air Canada pilots (ACPA) have devoted an enormous amount of time, money and effort at the CARAC process as well.

[Meatservo]

Actually in my last comment I WAS only looking at it from the point of view of starting early in the morning and working 14 hours. I wasn't thinking about the people who work that long after starting during weird hours.

...and I have read somewhere along the line that people who regularly work nights have a shorter life expectancy.

[tbaylx]

The fact remains that Canada remains one of the very few countries in the world who's duty regulations don't take into account the time of day you start or the number of sectors you fly. Europe, middle east, asia and the US have all embraced the both scientific data and common sense that this is the case. Or are we smarter than the rest of the world and they have no idea what they are talking about?There is no agenda here by any union, simply lobbying by ATAC that has delayed the implementation of modern duty regulations for years for their members financial gain.

If you fly multiple sectors at night, you're going to be more fatigued than if you did one sector during the day. About time we got regulations that reflected that, unless you'd rather wait until someone takes one for the team and makes it obvious.