Nasty ATC exchange

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:13 pm

Well, I don't think the legal advise on this forum means much anyway. But have a look at the views that your fellow WJ'ers have on this incident. Again, I'm not surprized. I guess that's really the only point I was trying to make. Oh and thanks for doing that search for me, you saved me a great deal of time.

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:10 pm

tonysoprano wrote:But have a look at the views that your fellow WJ'ers have on this incident.

I assume it's the same attraction as a carwreck... this thread is so stupid, one just has to look.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:00 pm

Tony, you need to untie those knotted panties for a sec. I don't care who that pilot worked for, I think he was being a dick. It just so happens he's an AC guy. So what? We all know there's 'dicks' in every department in every company. I'll be the first to admit that WJ isn't exempt either.
cheers.

tellyourkidstogetarealjob · Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:27 pm

Controller needs to learn how to defuse situations. Just give him your number. If you know you're right, don't worry about it.

AC pilot needs, 1) to have his radio license revoked, 2) to have his head professionally deinflated. How he managed to get it throught the hangar doors that morning is beyond me.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Mon May 01, 2006 5:04 am

AAAGGGHHH!!!

55+ · Post by **55+** » Mon May 01, 2006 6:59 am

Contrary to what has been stated by many on this particular item, there is an investigative process to have communication transcripts released. Unless there has been an accident/incident that requires investigation, Air Canada, WestJet et al will not get access period even if some departure controller/pilot had an exchange over the frequency.

Johnny767 · Post by **Johnny767** » Mon May 01, 2006 9:17 am

In the 'new age' there are nooooo secrets, 3000+ Pilots (can if they choose) know who this Captain is.

My take is, he made a complete idiot of himself. As if the Controller is going to broadcast his 'Name & Number' over the air.

Just as ATC can find out who the Captain is, after the fact, we can have the Controller identified.

Lets all take a lesson here and remember that you are always being watched and listened to.

motherfokker · Post by **motherfokker** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:08 am

too wierd.... well I guess he'll just have to go home and kick the cat to rid of all that built up anger of making only six figures a year.

pumpi134 · Post by **pumpi134** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:14 pm

I have been a lurker here for a while but this topic has finally got me to post. First I'm not either a WJ or AC supporter. I do not work for either and I really think this has nothing to do with it.

The pilot can make a request, the controller can approve it or not approve it. After the initial explaination to the pilot that "you are both going to the same place" The pilot sould have kept his mouth shut. The pilot has no right to to keep going on and on and keep asking the same question, there are other planes that need attention.

As was mentioned in another forum, if the controller had used the word "unable...." instead of "enough....." that probably would have been a wiser choice but I dont fault him for that. The pilot is acting like a 4 year old throwing a tantrum just because he did not get what he requested, with the safety of others at risk.

wooden spoon · Post by **wooden spoon** » Mon May 01, 2006 8:09 pm

i agree pumpi.if i was climbing out of toronto and having to level off for
this or waiting for a turn to final onto say 23 heading for 24r.
i cant say id be to impressed.it could have kept for later for sure.numbers in the book.somebody may have had to disconnect the AP and hand fly.
gees

170 to xray · Post by **170 to xray** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:24 am

Unfortunately you don't hear the cvr. It goes like this.

Cpt: Did he tell us to slow down?

FO: Yep, 220 knots.

Cpt: You did check on as Air Canada, right?

FO: Yes sir, I sure did.

Cpt: Get his name and number. Better yet have him pull the tapes! No one tells Air Canada to slow down. NO ONE!! (insert diabolical laughter)

C-FABH · Post by **C-FABH** » Wed May 03, 2006 9:03 am

Jaques Strappe wrote:Remember ROG? The guy could move airplanes and do it well which is why he didn't fit in with YYZ.

He was the best thing that ever happened to YYZ...

flyin' fish · Post by **flyin' fish** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:14 pm

what ever happened to ROG? I thought I heard him working YOW terminal last year.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:16 pm

He works the YOW-YUL-YQB terminals. YYZ didn't like his efficiency.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:50 am

Thanks!!

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Mon May 08, 2006 5:03 am

Now you're getting personal. I'm sooo hurt.

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Tue May 09, 2006 6:26 am

tonysoprano wrote:
This guy was obviously pissed off and wasn't about to let the other guy get away with it.
Yes, this was the most inmature exchange (from a "professional" pilot) I have heard in a long time.

So when we are going nowhere fast, especially on a Rapidair, it's also very frustating.

Tony, refer back to a discussion regarding EMB's and the excessively slow speeds between EWR and YYZ where you took the reciprocal argument to this statement.

You sir, are nothing but a banner flying, brainwashed, hypocrit and AC puppet!

You didn't listen to the recording, but are going to expound on it. WTFO?

BTW, Why is your photo on JS's avatar?

Get off your AC high-horse or shall I say highchair and have an objective look at things before bashing evryone else.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue May 09, 2006 6:50 am

gr8gazu.
I didn't have to listen to the recording. I joined the thread simply to make the point that the thread had turned into a pilot bashing symposium and the pilots doing the bashing seemed to be mainly WJ guys. You also read the AC guys trying to defend the AC pilot so once again, rather than having an intelligent discussion it turned into a "AC arrogance" conference where you seem to fit right in. I realize this is a public forum and everyone can express how they feel. However, when trolls show up, it usually throws the meaningfull thread out the window. Take a look at what WJ700 says about this topic on another forum where things were less hostile and more objective. It seems that this forum for some reason is different. And thanks very much for your kind words, you certainly are not the exception to the crap on this forum.

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Tue May 09, 2006 10:27 am

Tony, My point is, if you take an objective look at the AC posts on this site, anyone with an opposing view is quickly referred to as a Troll. That is akin to "oh yeah, my dad can beat your dad up" in the debate world.

Typically, the AC bretheren on this site act no differently than teenage thugs performing a swarming. "someone doesn't agree. Let's get him!!"

There is no logical discussion involved. I encourage you to read back through the posts with an open mind.

Until you show me different, my previous statement stands.

I am neither pro Westjet nor AC and couldn't give a rats ass if they both went away tomorrow. Open the skies and let the likes of Virgin have a run!

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue May 09, 2006 11:21 am

[quote="gr8gazu"]Tony, My point is, if you take an objective look at the AC posts on this site, anyone with an opposing view is quickly referred to as a Troll. That is akin to "oh yeah, my dad can beat your dad up" in the debate world."

I took your advice gazu and read back from the beginning of the thread. What I read was exactly what I have been trying to make you understand which is the fact that there were pointless, insulting statements made by a certain group where words like asshole, arrogant etc were used. The thread seems to have its moments of intelligence but this comes after the trolls have had their fun. The person who started this thread could have elected to put it in a different part of the forum but I think there was method to his madness right from the start. More than one of us tried to make this point to him. This thread was not posted here to provoke thoughtful discussion. Duh?!! What you percieve as arrogance on the part of AC is nothing more than our right to highlite the nonsense that is created at our expense. Grow up..

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Tue May 09, 2006 11:35 am

Tony, not trying to swarm you or anything... but listen to the damn recording, and then comment pls. Defending or attacking when you haven't even heard the 'offending' recording seems kind of silly to me.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue May 09, 2006 11:54 am

I can listen to it but still wouldn't call the guy an asshole. Funny how all the AC bashers all the sudden are coming out in numbers to try and make themselves sound objective and intelligent. Hey look, you guys should spend more time with your families rather than beating up on AC.

Murray.
Yah, what about it? I never called the ATC guy an asshole or arrogant. I was trying to point out the innefficiencies of Nav Can.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue May 09, 2006 12:29 pm

Murray,

Care to fill us in about ROG? I'd have agree with Tony, he was one of the best controllers I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with. I know we don't have the same traffic information in front of us as you do, but I've definately had times where I know there was plenty of seperation and ATC vectors you for a 10 mile final in a light aircraft (I know this because tower chuckled when we got handed off and asked why we were doing the sightseeing tour).

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Tue May 09, 2006 12:51 pm

Tony, I think it is safe to say that there are three camps regarding AC, the who love them, the ones who hate them and those like myself who are indifferent but don't mind pointing out the shortfalls regardless of those feelings.

Bede, What about Rog? The guy was great when he was in YVR, YYZ and wherever he is now. That is something evryone agrees on.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:12 pm

Rog was trained just like any other controller but he seems to have his own ways with expediting traffic. It doesn't always work but he TRIES.

gr8gazu.
...and the only people I have a problem with are the ones who hate at any cost. I frequently go on the WJ forum and have never called anybody asshole (even when I had reason to) but it doesn't seem to work the other way around. I'm not using the word TYPICAL( like they did), but there are a few of them. I could go on their forum and point out some bad piloting from them but I don't, in fact I have even defended them in the past. The point of my threads was to point out that an oppurtunity was taken by certain people to use the term arrogant in a matter which seemed to group us all at AC, again. I don't consider myself neither arrogant nor an asshole but it seems there is a group here who automatically group us in those terms everytime there is an oppurtunity.
At any rate, I'm getting tired of typing and it's time to go put some single malt to good use. I hope that doesn't sound too arrogant!!