E2

[BaldChewbacca]

To: All Air Canada Pilots

From: ACA MEC

Re: Upcoming Compensation and Benefits Proposal

Fellow Pilots,

As the voting process commenced, it became apparent that within a span of six hours, the Company requested an update on the voting participation among pilots. The response rate was an impressive 79.7%. The rapidity of this voting suggests a significant inclination towards opposing the current proposal.

In light of these developments, Air Canada management engaged in discussions with the ACA MEC, expressing a desire to secure pilot support. They acknowledged the financial obligations faced by many pilots, including debts, mortgages, and familial responsibilities.

Recognizing that numerous pilots under the flat pay structure possess considerable experience, the Company has come to understand the necessity of ensuring that these pilots do not seek supplemental employment in various sectors, such as ride-sharing, grocery services, culinary positions, construction, and call centers.

In consultation with legal advisors, the ACA MEC has accepted the Company's proposal, with the stipulation that an additional 40% salary increase be granted to Trainers. The conditions agreed upon are as follows:

All pilots in Years 1 and 2 will receive a Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA) of $12,000, to be disbursed in monthly installments.
All pilots in Years 3 and 4 will receive a COLA of $9,800, to be disbursed in monthly installments.
Air Canada will provide a family stipend of $9,500 for the first child, $6,800 for the second child, and $4,000 for each subsequent child, up to a maximum of $26,000 per year, payable in monthly installments. This stipulation applies to pilots in Years 1 through 4.
The Company will grant eight B1 passes to all pilots, though retroactive passes for the year 2023 will not be provided.
We welcome this initiative and appreciate the Company’s effort to recognize and value the contributions of Air Canada pilots, thereby establishing a solid foundation for a world-class contract. Further details will be communicated shortly through a video message from the MEC. Please remain vigilant for updates in your email.

In Unity,
ACA MEC

Lol wtf is this supposed to be? It's not real, I know that much

[runway29]

Also nothing to do with a thread talking about E2 QoL

[CaptDukeNukem]

Also nothing to do with a thread talking about E2 QoL

Yea no doubt lol.

As for an update, we received an email from MD, saying they are looking at the FOAG committee’s submission and that they want to stay competitive. What does that mean? It’s anything you want it to mean. For me, I assume they will throw a salary that is close to AC’s TA, with some QOL improvements. Time will tell of course. I may eat my words in the next few months.

But to be an expanding company in a dog eat dog world, you gotta feed the third dog prime rib.

And don’t skimp on the au jus sauce

[Speedbrakes]

Also nothing to do with a thread talking about E2 QoL

Yea no doubt lol.

As for an update, we received an email from MD, saying they are looking at the FOAG committee’s submission and that they want to stay competitive. What does that mean? It’s anything you want it to mean. For me, I assume they will throw a salary that is close to AC’s TA, with some QOL improvements. Time will tell of course. I may eat my words in the next few months.

But to be an expanding company in a dog eat dog world, you gotta feed the third dog prime rib.

And don’t skimp on the au jus sauce

If this happens if will be my third significant raise in 18 months of being with Porter.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Also nothing to do with a thread talking about E2 QoL

Yea no doubt lol.

As for an update, we received an email from MD, saying they are looking at the FOAG committee’s submission and that they want to stay competitive. What does that mean? It’s anything you want it to mean. For me, I assume they will throw a salary that is close to AC’s TA, with some QOL improvements. Time will tell of course. I may eat my words in the next few months.

But to be an expanding company in a dog eat dog world, you gotta feed the third dog prime rib.

And don’t skimp on the au jus sauce

If this happens if will be my third significant raise in 18 months of being with Porter.

It’s happening. Just log on to the wifi and wait….

[khedrei]

Yea no doubt lol.

As for an update, we received an email from MD, saying they are looking at the FOAG committee’s submission and that they want to stay competitive. What does that mean? It’s anything you want it to mean. For me, I assume they will throw a salary that is close to AC’s TA, with some QOL improvements. Time will tell of course. I may eat my words in the next few months.

But to be an expanding company in a dog eat dog world, you gotta feed the third dog prime rib.

And don’t skimp on the au jus sauce

If this happens if will be my third significant raise in 18 months of being with Porter.

It’s happening. Just log on to the wifi and wait….

Hopefully they will match ACs rates for captains AND give the YR1-4 a good starting wage and a reason to come over. Then you will actually see AC struggle to attract new pilots and even have people quitting for once.

Porter actually made flying domestically not miserable. Maybe they will make working those first few years not miserable as well.

Maybe they will set the bar that WJ and AC failed to do.

[cjp]

Fingers crossed, we need to staff another 60+ jets. Benchmarks generally don't exceed, but even if it's 90%-100% for Captain's and 110% of FOs (as it's not a massive increase if they go to 100% of AC, sad), that's a good improvement.

They were benchmarking for A320's/737s before, be interesting too see if they continue that trend.

We'll know in 2 weeks.

[Allfourseasons]

Fingers crossed, we need to staff another 60+ jets. Benchmarks generally don't exceed, but even if it's 90%-100% for Captain's and 110% of FOs (as it's not a massive increase if they go to 100% of AC, sad), that's a good improvement.

They were benchmarking for A320's/737s before, be interesting too see if they continue that trend.

We'll know in 2 weeks.

With the path to AC never having looked so enticing, I'd imagine they'd have to get close to matching the NB Capt rates and exceed the current AC NB FO scale no? Otherwise your youngin's will jump ship I'd say.

[rudder]

Fingers crossed, we need to staff another 60+ jets. Benchmarks generally don't exceed, but even if it's 90%-100% for Captain's and 110% of FOs (as it's not a massive increase if they go to 100% of AC, sad), that's a good improvement.

They were benchmarking for A320's/737s before, be interesting too see if they continue that trend.

We'll know in 2 weeks.

With the path to AC never having looked so enticing, I'd imagine they'd have to get close to matching the NB Capt rates and exceed the current AC NB FO scale no? Otherwise your youngin's will jump ship I'd say.

If you are seniority #5601 at AC, that left seat NB is not “just 2 years away”.

If the AC TA passes, it was designed to get pilots delaying left seat to take it if they want the $$. The TA has a chance to dramatically alter the bidding demographic at AC.

Take a look at the bids - there are around 5600 positions and 2500 CA spots (approximate).

Does it make sense for a 30 year old to migrate from Porter to AC? Sure. 35? Maybe. 40? Not so much. 45? Your career earnings will likely be equal, but AC pension will be triple what you might accumulate at Porter so your decision is about personal priorities, including QOL (non-existent at AC).

It will be interesting to see if the integrity of the benchmarking exercise holds up. It would be nice to see a victory where it seems elsewhere the results have been largely disappointing.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Fingers crossed, we need to staff another 60+ jets. Benchmarks generally don't exceed, but even if it's 90%-100% for Captain's and 110% of FOs (as it's not a massive increase if they go to 100% of AC, sad), that's a good improvement.

They were benchmarking for A320's/737s before, be interesting too see if they continue that trend.

We'll know in 2 weeks.

With the path to AC never having looked so enticing, I'd imagine they'd have to get close to matching the NB Capt rates and exceed the current AC NB FO scale no? Otherwise your youngin's will jump ship I'd say.

If you are seniority #5601 at AC, that left seat NB is not “just 2 years away”.

If the AC TA passes, it was designed to get pilots delaying left seat to take it if they want the $$. The TA has a chance to dramatically alter the bidding demographic at AC.

Take a look at the bids - there are around 5600 positions and 2500 CA spots (approximate).

Does it make sense for a 30 year old to migrate from Porter to AC? Sure. 35? Maybe. 40? Not so much. 45? Your career earnings will likely be equal, but AC pension will be triple what you might accumulate at Porter so your decision is about personal priorities, including QOL (non-existent at AC).

It will be interesting to see if the integrity of the benchmarking exercise holds up. It would be nice to see a victory where it seems elsewhere the results have been largely disappointing.

I think the DEC ship has sailed at porter.
If you didn’t take a chance and ran when you could you’re probably better off staying at … flair; WestJet, chartright, etc.

For the FOs, it could be a gamble that could pay off. Sure we don’t have the pension that AC has, but you could position yourself nicely in terms of seniority, and have heavy advantages compared to first year FOs at Ac. It’s all a work in progress. I think the recent TA can attest to that as well

[Speedbrakes]

I think the DEC ship has sailed at porter.
If you didn’t take a chance and ran when you could you’re probably better off staying at … flair; WestJet, chartright, etc.

Do you mean that you think we won't be hiring DECs anymore? Or do you just mean that it may not be worth it since the seniority won't grow as much? My only regret in making the move to come to Porter is that I didn't do it sooner.

My seniority is decent but it's stagnated for a while now and I don't really see it changing much for a while.

[cdnavater]

With the path to AC never having looked so enticing, I'd imagine they'd have to get close to matching the NB Capt rates and exceed the current AC NB FO scale no? Otherwise your youngin's will jump ship I'd say.

If you are seniority #5601 at AC, that left seat NB is not “just 2 years away”.

If the AC TA passes, it was designed to get pilots delaying left seat to take it if they want the $$. The TA has a chance to dramatically alter the bidding demographic at AC.

Take a look at the bids - there are around 5600 positions and 2500 CA spots (approximate).

Does it make sense for a 30 year old to migrate from Porter to AC? Sure. 35? Maybe. 40? Not so much. 45? Your career earnings will likely be equal, but AC pension will be triple what you might accumulate at Porter so your decision is about personal priorities, including QOL (non-existent at AC).

It will be interesting to see if the integrity of the benchmarking exercise holds up. It would be nice to see a victory where it seems elsewhere the results have been largely disappointing.

I think the DEC ship has sailed at porter.
If you didn’t take a chance and ran when you could you’re probably better off staying at … flair; WestJet, chartright, etc.

For the FOs, it could be a gamble that could pay off. Sure we don’t have the pension that AC has, but you could position yourself nicely in terms of seniority, and have heavy advantages compared to first year FOs at Ac. It’s all a work in progress. I think the recent TA can attest to that as well

Not trying to start anything, I’m just curious why you say the DEC ship is gone, aren’t you still expecting 60 more fins?
Are you saying you basically have enough FOs who can upgrade, combined with Q pilots who move over, to fill the left seat while they backfill FO spots?

[cjp]

If you are seniority #5601 at AC, that left seat NB is not “just 2 years away”.

If the AC TA passes, it was designed to get pilots delaying left seat to take it if they want the $$. The TA has a chance to dramatically alter the bidding demographic at AC.

Take a look at the bids - there are around 5600 positions and 2500 CA spots (approximate).

Does it make sense for a 30 year old to migrate from Porter to AC? Sure. 35? Maybe. 40? Not so much. 45? Your career earnings will likely be equal, but AC pension will be triple what you might accumulate at Porter so your decision is about personal priorities, including QOL (non-existent at AC).

It will be interesting to see if the integrity of the benchmarking exercise holds up. It would be nice to see a victory where it seems elsewhere the results have been largely disappointing.

I think the DEC ship has sailed at porter.
If you didn’t take a chance and ran when you could you’re probably better off staying at … flair; WestJet, chartright, etc.

For the FOs, it could be a gamble that could pay off. Sure we don’t have the pension that AC has, but you could position yourself nicely in terms of seniority, and have heavy advantages compared to first year FOs at Ac. It’s all a work in progress. I think the recent TA can attest to that as well

Not trying to start anything, I’m just curious why you say the DEC ship is gone, aren’t you still expecting 60 more fins?
Are you saying you basically have enough FOs who can upgrade, combined with Q pilots who move over, to fill the left seat while they backfill FO spots?

It'll be unpredictable if and when they restart the DEC program. So far upgrade program is successful. We have 2 seats from which we can draw Captain's, Dash 8 Left and E2 right.

[PA-18]

Porter is in a unique growth stage (while the economy is slowing) I wouldn’t say DEC jobs are gone. Several guys on the Q are slowing migrating over to AC and WJ still. The DEC opportunity is excellent at porter for anyone with experience who is looking for a left seat jet job. However with no YOS, there will always be a revolving door amongst pilots who aren’t holding a left seat on the E2. The benchmark misses the target on this one.

[goingnowherefast]

Why no YOS? That's a huge retention tool! If someone starts ar year 1 anyway, might as well be somewhere with a much higher top end (AC, WJ, TS).

I wouldn't expect Porter to match the top end of companies that fly WB aircraft, so they gotta offer carrying YOS

[CaptDukeNukem]

If you are seniority #5601 at AC, that left seat NB is not “just 2 years away”.

If the AC TA passes, it was designed to get pilots delaying left seat to take it if they want the $$. The TA has a chance to dramatically alter the bidding demographic at AC.

Take a look at the bids - there are around 5600 positions and 2500 CA spots (approximate).

Does it make sense for a 30 year old to migrate from Porter to AC? Sure. 35? Maybe. 40? Not so much. 45? Your career earnings will likely be equal, but AC pension will be triple what you might accumulate at Porter so your decision is about personal priorities, including QOL (non-existent at AC).

It will be interesting to see if the integrity of the benchmarking exercise holds up. It would be nice to see a victory where it seems elsewhere the results have been largely disappointing.

I think the DEC ship has sailed at porter.
If you didn’t take a chance and ran when you could you’re probably better off staying at … flair; WestJet, chartright, etc.

For the FOs, it could be a gamble that could pay off. Sure we don’t have the pension that AC has, but you could position yourself nicely in terms of seniority, and have heavy advantages compared to first year FOs at Ac. It’s all a work in progress. I think the recent TA can attest to that as well

Not trying to start anything, I’m just curious why you say the DEC ship is gone, aren’t you still expecting 60 more fins?
Are you saying you basically have enough FOs who can upgrade, combined with Q pilots who move over, to fill the left seat while they backfill FO spots?

As mentioned above, we can now fill captain spots internally with the transition and upgrade course. That was unavailable before its approval. So now we’re gonna see more come from the dash operation. That’s why in my opinion the ship has sailed.

I believe we will still need DECs in the future. But it’s certainly not as go-go-go as it was. People may have missed an opportunity. But who knows. lol. This is aviation after all

[CaptDukeNukem]

Why no YOS? That's a huge retention tool! If someone starts ar year 1 anyway, might as well be somewhere with a much higher top end (AC, WJ, TS).

I wouldn't expect Porter to match the top end of companies that fly WB aircraft, so they gotta offer carrying YOS

I threw it in my survey notes. Hopefully it comes.

[Av8andsleep]

I think the DEC ship has sailed at porter.
If you didn’t take a chance and ran when you could you’re probably better off staying at … flair; WestJet, chartright, etc.

For the FOs, it could be a gamble that could pay off. Sure we don’t have the pension that AC has, but you could position yourself nicely in terms of seniority, and have heavy advantages compared to first year FOs at Ac. It’s all a work in progress. I think the recent TA can attest to that as well

Not trying to start anything, I’m just curious why you say the DEC ship is gone, aren’t you still expecting 60 more fins?
Are you saying you basically have enough FOs who can upgrade, combined with Q pilots who move over, to fill the left seat while they backfill FO spots?

As mentioned above, we can now fill captain spots internally with the transition and upgrade course. That was unavailable before its approval. So now we’re gonna see more come from the dash operation. That’s why in my opinion the ship has sailed.

I believe we will still need DECs in the future. But it’s certainly not as go-go-go as it was. People may have missed an opportunity. But who knows. lol. This is aviation after all

In your opinion.. Has the ship sailed for those who get in today on the dash FO, want to upgrade, and then eventually bid for the jet (left seat to left seat)

[braaap Braap]

Not trying to start anything, I’m just curious why you say the DEC ship is gone, aren’t you still expecting 60 more fins?
Are you saying you basically have enough FOs who can upgrade, combined with Q pilots who move over, to fill the left seat while they backfill FO spots?

I dont think the ship has sailed completely but its not leaving Port anytime soon. A lot of people infront of new hires these days but also a lot of senior (age wise) people in the E2 using the DEC as their career’s sunset.

As mentioned above, we can now fill captain spots internally with the transition and upgrade course. That was unavailable before its approval. So now we’re gonna see more come from the dash operation. That’s why in my opinion the ship has sailed.

I believe we will still need DECs in the future. But it’s certainly not as go-go-go as it was. People may have missed an opportunity. But who knows. lol. This is aviation after all

In your opinion.. Has the ship sailed for those who get in today on the dash FO, want to upgrade, and then eventually bid for the jet (left seat to left seat)

Not sure where my message went. Weird.

I dont think the ship has sailed but there are certainly a lot of people ahead of new hires these days. On the other hand there are a lot of senior (age not seniority) in the DEC seats. Many came/took the job as a career sunset/re-entry to Canada job.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Not trying to start anything, I’m just curious why you say the DEC ship is gone, aren’t you still expecting 60 more fins?
Are you saying you basically have enough FOs who can upgrade, combined with Q pilots who move over, to fill the left seat while they backfill FO spots?

As mentioned above, we can now fill captain spots internally with the transition and upgrade course. That was unavailable before its approval. So now we’re gonna see more come from the dash operation. That’s why in my opinion the ship has sailed.

I believe we will still need DECs in the future. But it’s certainly not as go-go-go as it was. People may have missed an opportunity. But who knows. lol. This is aviation after all

In your opinion.. Has the ship sailed for those who get in today on the dash FO, want to upgrade, and then eventually bid for the jet (left seat to left seat)

No. There’s still a lot of planes coming. I think that’s gonna be the new path for most folks. It’s about that all important seniority number. With the upgrade/transition program now, they kinda have to look at internals before hiring DEC.

[Aviationanalysis234]

Not trying to start anything, I’m just curious why you say the DEC ship is gone, aren’t you still expecting 60 more fins?
Are you saying you basically have enough FOs who can upgrade, combined with Q pilots who move over, to fill the left seat while they backfill FO spots?

As mentioned above, we can now fill captain spots internally with the transition and upgrade course. That was unavailable before its approval. So now we’re gonna see more come from the dash operation. That’s why in my opinion the ship has sailed.

I believe we will still need DECs in the future. But it’s certainly not as go-go-go as it was. People may have missed an opportunity. But who knows. lol. This is aviation after all

In your opinion.. Has the ship sailed for those who get in today on the dash FO, want to upgrade, and then eventually bid for the jet (left seat to left seat)

With at least 58 more E2s coming in the next 4 years I would suggest that if you want the benefits of a seniority bump you join Porter in the next 12-18 months.

[flyinhigh]

With at least 58 more E2s coming in the next 4 years I would suggest that if you want the benefits of a seniority bump you join Porter in the next 12-18 months.

mmm, pretty sure right now it is only up to 75 tails by 2027 unless the company has officially announced something that us pilots do not know about. Additionally, a big factor is the TS JV. It's now publicly acknowledged, TS is hurting and heaven forbid they cannot make it under current market conditions, we will not be guaranteeing 100 tails (unless we buy TS ).

[cjp]

With at least 58 more E2s coming in the next 4 years I would suggest that if you want the benefits of a seniority bump you join Porter in the next 12-18 months.

mmm, pretty sure right now it is only up to 75 tails by 2027 unless the company has officially announced something that us pilots do not know about. Additionally, a big factor is the TS JV. It's now publicly acknowledged, TS is hurting and heaven forbid they cannot make it under current market conditions, we will not be guaranteeing 100 tails (unless we buy TS ).

If TS goes under, it means all their routes are up for grabs (trust me I don't want that to happen, they have really been a great partner to work with). Should that happen, likely we expand at MAX CON into the Caribbean and Mexico. Overseas for us is not an option.

[khedrei]

With at least 58 more E2s coming in the next 4 years I would suggest that if you want the benefits of a seniority bump you join Porter in the next 12-18 months.

mmm, pretty sure right now it is only up to 75 tails by 2027 unless the company has officially announced something that us pilots do not know about. Additionally, a big factor is the TS JV. It's now publicly acknowledged, TS is hurting and heaven forbid they cannot make it under current market conditions, we will not be guaranteeing 100 tails (unless we buy TS ).

If TS goes under, it means all their routes are up for grabs (trust me I don't want that to happen, they have really been a great partner to work with). Should that happen, likely we expand at MAX CON into the Caribbean and Mexico. Overseas for us is not an option.

Curious why overseas is not an option for porter? Even down the road?

[cjp]

The jet doesn't have the range, and it's barely ETOPS. We'd need something bigger - and if that's in the works, we certainly don't know about it. E190 might be an option...but I don't see them hitting a tarmac until 2027+

We currently operate it (195) on some of it's longest routes, and those trips, comparatively, would barely cross the Atlantic Eastbound out of Toronto. Perhaps Montreal or Halifax, but then the business of flying westbound doesn't work terribly well with any sort of realistic wind.

The E2 is great for trans-continental. That's where it lives.

As I say this, it'd be funny if the powers that be send out an e-mail saying we're starting service to Heathrow, Dublin or Glasgow. Considering we haven't tried our hand at Carribean yet, and - I'm guessing - only 20% or less of current batch of pilots have gone NAT/WATRS, we'll have another learning curve coming up shortly.