Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

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cdnavater
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by cdnavater »

mmm...bacon wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:29 pm
Smilin' Jack wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:23 am YYZ pilots being pushed to self transport out to YKF to circumvent the CARS Duty regs,
Asking as a non-airline pilot, how does that work? Surely your first question after CrewSched calls and says that you’re working away from your base is : “great. How are you going to get me there?”
I think by being forced, he meant they closed YKF based thereby forcing them to commute to YYZ on their own time.
If Flair starts the pairing in YYZ, the commute doesn’t technically count for duty, however as a very long time commuter I would never go the same day unless my duty day including the commute fit in a legal day, if not I went the day before.
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the_new_guy
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by the_new_guy »

cdnavater wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:35 pm
mmm...bacon wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:29 pm
Smilin' Jack wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:23 am YYZ pilots being pushed to self transport out to YKF to circumvent the CARS Duty regs,
Asking as a non-airline pilot, how does that work? Surely your first question after CrewSched calls and says that you’re working away from your base is : “great. How are you going to get me there?”
I think by being forced, he meant they closed YKF based thereby forcing them to commute to YYZ on their own time.
If Flair starts the pairing in YYZ, the commute doesn’t technically count for duty, however as a very long time commuter I would never go the same day unless my duty day including the commute fit in a legal day, if not I went the day before.
Not quite, ykf is still a base. Crew scheduling will try their hand however and ask crew for support/GDO buyout out of yyz, asking them to self transport and by doing so limiting the duty period.

But, a crew can refuse to work out of base or ask for transport to be providing. If they don't, it's on them in my book. We shouldn't accept this or ask for transport. It starts your duty increases your perdiems and pay slightly as well.
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cdnavater
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by cdnavater »

the_new_guy wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:16 pm
cdnavater wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:35 pm
mmm...bacon wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:29 pm

Asking as a non-airline pilot, how does that work? Surely your first question after CrewSched calls and says that you’re working away from your base is : “great. How are you going to get me there?”
I think by being forced, he meant they closed YKF based thereby forcing them to commute to YYZ on their own time.
If Flair starts the pairing in YYZ, the commute doesn’t technically count for duty, however as a very long time commuter I would never go the same day unless my duty day including the commute fit in a legal day, if not I went the day before.
Not quite, ykf is still a base. Crew scheduling will try their hand however and ask crew for support/GDO buyout out of yyz, asking them to self transport and by doing so limiting the duty period.

But, a crew can refuse to work out of base or ask for transport to be providing. If they don't, it's on them in my book. We shouldn't accept this or ask for transport. It starts your duty increases your perdiems and pay slightly as well.
I see the word used was pushed, I could’ve sworn it said forced, guess I saw what I wanted to see
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Blueontop
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by Blueontop »

Is the rumor mill true? Did y’all not get paid today?
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rudder
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by rudder »

Blueontop wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:38 am Is the rumor mill true? Did y’all not get paid today?
If that were true - close the doors.

Most companies would cease operations PRIOR TO missing a payroll deadline. If the planes are flying, it probably is just a rumour.
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JustaCanadian
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by JustaCanadian »

ULCC airline's in Canada need to stop looking at the financial literacy of the Canadian government as a business model. The interest will crush you, budgets don't balance themselves.

Only gov has the privilege of taking as much money as they want from us. Flair should just nationalize then this would all make sense. "Free travel" for all!
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by thepoors »

rudder wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:45 am
Blueontop wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:38 am Is the rumor mill true? Did y’all not get paid today?
If that were true - close the doors.

Most companies would cease operations PRIOR TO missing a payroll deadline. If the planes are flying, it probably is just a rumour.
Not a rumour. The gig is up
https://postimg.cc/94zdDNGC
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dialdriver
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by dialdriver »

Anyone get paid yet?
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Inverted2
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by Inverted2 »

https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/tribun ... -1.6809532

They have to pay for the crab meat first.🦀
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by co-joe »

dialdriver wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:24 pm Anyone get paid yet?
Yes, most have, a few in institutions are slower than others. Pay day is the 15th, oh look it's still the 15th. Not ideal optics, but still going to work tomorrow.
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dontcallmeshirley
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by dontcallmeshirley »

Inverted2 wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:01 pm https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/tribun ... -1.6809532

They have to pay for the crab meat first.🦀
The crab meat fish cakes were the cheap items... he was apparently shipping fresh sea cucumbers. An image to jog your memory...

Image
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by QKZXKV »

thepoors wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:05 pm
rudder wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:45 am
Blueontop wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:38 am Is the rumor mill true? Did y’all not get paid today?
If that were true - close the doors.

Most companies would cease operations PRIOR TO missing a payroll deadline. If the planes are flying, it probably is just a rumour.
Not a rumour. The gig is up
https://postimg.cc/94zdDNGC
:lol:
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RB211
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by RB211 »

QKZXKV wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:59 pm
thepoors wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:05 pm
rudder wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:45 am

If that were true - close the doors.

Most companies would cease operations PRIOR TO missing a payroll deadline. If the planes are flying, it probably is just a rumour.
Not a rumour. The gig is up
https://postimg.cc/94zdDNGC
:lol:
As someone who has been on the wrong side of an airline demise, I find that lol smilie to be in very bad taste!! People having their livelihood in the balance is not ‘funny’!!
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Inverted2
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by Inverted2 »

dontcallmeshirley wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:01 pm
Inverted2 wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:01 pm https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/tribun ... -1.6809532

They have to pay for the crab meat first.🦀
The crab meat fish cakes were the cheap items... he was apparently shipping fresh sea cucumbers. An image to jog your memory...

Image
That looks like a turd I released after my morning coffee. Why in the f*ck would anyone want to eat that? :lol:
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flyinhigh
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by flyinhigh »

co-joe wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:36 pm
dialdriver wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:24 pm Anyone get paid yet?
Yes, most have, a few in institutions are slower than others. Pay day is the 15th, oh look it's still the 15th. Not ideal optics, but still going to work tomorrow.
Ideal optics?? It’s bad enough for the company to acknowledge it, adding in the fact 25 million is being withheld now as well says a lot.
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cdnavater
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by cdnavater »

flyinhigh wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:56 am
co-joe wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:36 pm
dialdriver wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:24 pm Anyone get paid yet?
Yes, most have, a few in institutions are slower than others. Pay day is the 15th, oh look it's still the 15th. Not ideal optics, but still going to work tomorrow.
Ideal optics?? It’s bad enough for the company to acknowledge it, adding in the fact 25 million is being withheld now as well says a lot.
I would say we’re entering the cash on the dash phase, I didn’t hear anything about Lynx missing payroll.
Will 777 bail them out one more time or cut their losses?
Anyone who hasn’t applied elsewhere at this point is just fooling themselves.
I wish you luck
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rudder
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by rudder »

cdnavater wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:00 am
flyinhigh wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:56 am
co-joe wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:36 pm

Yes, most have, a few in institutions are slower than others. Pay day is the 15th, oh look it's still the 15th. Not ideal optics, but still going to work tomorrow.
Ideal optics?? It’s bad enough for the company to acknowledge it, adding in the fact 25 million is being withheld now as well says a lot.
I would say we’re entering the cash on the dash phase, I didn’t hear anything about Lynx missing payroll.
Will 777 bail them out one more time or cut their losses?
Anyone who hasn’t applied elsewhere at this point is just fooling themselves.
I wish you luck
If you understand how digital payroll works, you would similarly understand how this is a big deal.

Simplest explanation - ADP made a mistake. If that were the case, then the employer should say so along with assuring the employees on behalf of ADP that the mistake will not be repeated.

If ADP did NOT make a mistake, then it gets more interesting.

ADP redistributes funds on hand (in trust) from the employer. Payroll works like an NSF cheque - if you are short $1 from the amount on the cheque then the entire cheque gets bounced by the bank.

I have no idea what the precise timelines are but I would expect most employers would have digitally transferred required payroll funds to ADP at least one banking day prior to the pay distribution date. An absence or shortfall in required funds would have triggered an interesting conversation between ADP and the employer. ADP is not a bank. It does not lend funds and collect later. ADP would never put itself in the position of becoming a creditor.

The good news is that ADP eventually hit ‘send’ and the Flair employees got paid. It means the required payroll funds arrived and could be redistributed per the ADP service agreement. In the digital age, things can happen very quickly.

However, nobody should have to hold their breath on payday. It hasn’t happened anywhere else.
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Michel Myers
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by Michel Myers »

https://www.ft.com/content/7d1f2f3a-34b ... 7bff32f7ad

This was an ADP error

ADP…Same payroll Flair uses. Flair Staff have been given an email from ADP regarding their mistake

Yes Flair has significant financial issues but this particular one doesn’t fit your narrative
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Michel Myers
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by Michel Myers »

Sorry the article was behind a paywall. Here it is


About 55,000 staff at EY’s US operations woke on Tuesday to find the wages they were paid on Friday had disappeared from their bank accounts after an error by the accounting firm’s payroll provider ADP.

The embarrassing mistake came as US workers grapple with a surge in living costs. US inflation hit 9.1 per cent last month, recording its biggest jump since November 1981.

The rare error also highlights the reliance of large companies on technology and the impact on customers and employees when systems fail.

EY is considering a historic split of its audit and advisory divisions that would enable it to win more tech consulting work by avoiding conflicts of interest between the two business lines.

The Big Four firm said ADP had “erroneously reversed EY’s July 15 payroll impacting our US employees”. It added that it was working urgently with ADP to fix the error, which had affected all of its roughly 55,000 US employees.

Staff who had already transferred the money out of their accounts or used it to pay bills risked being left in overdraft as a result of the mistake by ADP, which is one of the world’s biggest online payroll and HR software companies, with a market valuation of about $90bn.

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News in-depthEY
How to split a Big Four firm — and keep 13,000 partners happy

“Late fees, penalties or other charges [staff] may have incurred as a result of this error will be covered,” EY said.

ADP said in a statement: “We can confirm that we experienced an error that caused a payment reversal for a group of US employees of one of our clients. We understand the urgency of this issue and our team is working swiftly to resolve this to ensure employees receive their pay as quickly as possible.”

ADP added on Tuesday evening that it had resolved the error and expected all staff would be paid by the end of the day. How soon the cash would be available to employees would depend on their own banks, it said.

EY staff took to online forums and message boards to vent their frustration on Tuesday.

“Woke up with a bank alert about an overdraft fee, great way to start my day,” said one person on Reddit. Other users also said they were in overdraft as a result of the mistake, which one said they noticed at 5.30am.

“I’ve been here 25 years and this is the first time [this has happened],” said an EY employee on Fishbowl, a mobile social media app for professionals.

The error occurred in the first month of Julie Boland’s tenure as chair and managing partner of EY US, which had revenues of $16bn in the 12 months to June 2021. Boland took over from Kelly Grier, who insiders said had decided not to run for re-election after a power struggle with EY’s global boss Carmine Di Sibio.
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DanWEC
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by DanWEC »

Rudder, purely as an aside conversation, I thought that ADP was authorized to distribute existing funds from what is essentially either a charter account or an account wholly managed by the corporation, with access authorization to ADP.

I'm only basing this on what I've seen from looking at small scale payroll management services.

So you're saying it requires the company payroll dept to complete payroll accounting just prior to payday, then transfer the payroll balance in it's entirety to the service, where they handle the distribution to the employees individual accounts?
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by QKZXKV »

RB211 wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:37 pm
QKZXKV wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:59 pm
thepoors wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:05 pm

Not a rumour. The gig is up
https://postimg.cc/94zdDNGC
:lol:
As someone who has been on the wrong side of an airline demise, I find that lol smilie to be in very bad taste!! People having their livelihood in the balance is not ‘funny’!!
Oh boo hoo, you've got to toughen up a bit. You're probably one of those cancel culture softies.

I find it entertaining because everyone was kissing Flair's behind about how great of a place it is to be; when the rest of us saw this coming. Might've been a technical mistake on payroll's end, it might've not... either way, Flair deserves to be laughed at with all the continual stupidity coming from the top there.

Look away if you can't handle it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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cdnavater
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by cdnavater »

Michel Myers wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:33 am https://www.ft.com/content/7d1f2f3a-34b ... 7bff32f7ad

This was an ADP error

ADP…Same payroll Flair uses. Flair Staff have been given an email from ADP regarding their mistake

Yes Flair has significant financial issues but this particular one doesn’t fit your narrative
Not disputing but the article is from July and has nothing to do with the current event, I’m sure they have taken measures to prevent it from happening again.
However, if true, it was an ADP error, probably couldn’t come at a worse time, I would not be applying there if I were not truly desperate given the environment surrounding Flair.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by rookiepilot »

Michel Myers wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:33 am
This was an ADP error

Yes Flair has significant financial issues but……..
🤔
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by boeingboy »

Michel Myers wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:37 am Sorry the article was behind a paywall. Here it is


About 55,000 staff at EY’s US operations woke on Tuesday to find the wages they were paid on Friday had disappeared from their bank accounts after an error by the accounting firm’s payroll provider ADP.


The Big Four firm said ADP had “erroneously reversed EY’s July 15 payroll impacting our US employees”. It added that it was working urgently with ADP to fix the error, which had affected all of its roughly 55,000 US employees.

ADP said in a statement: “We can confirm that we experienced an error that caused a payment reversal for a group of US employees of one of our clients. We understand the urgency of this issue and our team is working swiftly to resolve this to ensure employees receive their pay as quickly as possible.”

Umm....sorry - but try again. The article you quote is from 2022.

You gotta lay off the type 4 green cool-aid.
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Re: Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

Post by Old fella »

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Last edited by Old fella on Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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