Now is the time for float drivers to ask for a raise!
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog
This is a good thread!
When you slug freight all day, hand-bomb boxes of groceries, plywood, building materials, 400-pound drums of gas, tie on boats & canoes, do most of the paperwork for your accounting dept...damn right you're worth $400 a day.
On top of that, you get up at 4:30 in the morning and go till dark, do 10 or 11 trips, get barked at by drunks for being ½ an hour late at 7 p.m., they don't help you, you have to taxi for 8-10 minutes in your precious Norduyn to get far enough downwind you don't scrape some reef on the way out; and then on your last trip home, dispatch wants you to "whip over to McKay camp and move 4 drums of jet fuel for the choppers tomorrow"...damn right you're worth $400 a day.
On top of that you pump fuel all day on your own, top up the oil, and judge your weight by how your floats sit so you don't have to taxi back to the dock, pray for a 5 kt breeze to take the glass off, fly around all day in smoke or fog, ..-run under a 200' base, in and out of snow showers and a mile vis, manage a Beech 18 on your own in flowing water....damn right you're worth $400 a day.
You put up with everyone else's bullshit with a smile and a joke, you run a virtually autonomous show, and stay out of trouble, off reefs, don't ding the floats coming in too fast, and try to stay on time with impossible back-to-back bookings...damn right you're worth $400 a day.
This ain't a job for preppies. Guys who drive 704 & 705 pavement-to-pavement 5 times, vectored to straight-in ILSs by center, have walk-on, walk-off freight, rampies, CSAs, loaders, marshallers, Ops rooms, dispatchers, and have to stay at the Delta Besborough - who have never flown floats or skiis - don't have a clue what hard work is. They make $400 a day...why shouldn't we?.....Over.
When you slug freight all day, hand-bomb boxes of groceries, plywood, building materials, 400-pound drums of gas, tie on boats & canoes, do most of the paperwork for your accounting dept...damn right you're worth $400 a day.
On top of that, you get up at 4:30 in the morning and go till dark, do 10 or 11 trips, get barked at by drunks for being ½ an hour late at 7 p.m., they don't help you, you have to taxi for 8-10 minutes in your precious Norduyn to get far enough downwind you don't scrape some reef on the way out; and then on your last trip home, dispatch wants you to "whip over to McKay camp and move 4 drums of jet fuel for the choppers tomorrow"...damn right you're worth $400 a day.
On top of that you pump fuel all day on your own, top up the oil, and judge your weight by how your floats sit so you don't have to taxi back to the dock, pray for a 5 kt breeze to take the glass off, fly around all day in smoke or fog, ..-run under a 200' base, in and out of snow showers and a mile vis, manage a Beech 18 on your own in flowing water....damn right you're worth $400 a day.
You put up with everyone else's bullshit with a smile and a joke, you run a virtually autonomous show, and stay out of trouble, off reefs, don't ding the floats coming in too fast, and try to stay on time with impossible back-to-back bookings...damn right you're worth $400 a day.
This ain't a job for preppies. Guys who drive 704 & 705 pavement-to-pavement 5 times, vectored to straight-in ILSs by center, have walk-on, walk-off freight, rampies, CSAs, loaders, marshallers, Ops rooms, dispatchers, and have to stay at the Delta Besborough - who have never flown floats or skiis - don't have a clue what hard work is. They make $400 a day...why shouldn't we?.....Over.
Hey Philly! You got a calculator and a copy of the CARs handy?
And can you just turn to the page in CARs that lets you fly more than 150 hours/30 days, or 900 hours for the season?
errr...hello...?
Show me an op which flies (sp) a standard Beaver 8 hours a day, more than 5 days a week, throughout the summer will you? Most Beavers average about 5-6 hours a day when they are totally jammed. And they're mostly 50-mile trips, like those described so eloquently in my post above.XSBANK Your numbers for a $400 a day Beaver pilot are based on a Beaver which fly's 8 hrs a day. 240hrs a month, and 1440 hrs in a Float Season. Tell you what. You come work for me and fly 1440 hrs from May to Oct and i'll pay you your $400.
And can you just turn to the page in CARs that lets you fly more than 150 hours/30 days, or 900 hours for the season?
errr...hello...?
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shimmydampner
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I hope to god that's sarcasm.xsbank wrote:Go for the low wage - really, what could be easier than flying floats?
Listen to Mr. Tough Guy here. Maybe they give the simple jobs to the simple folk, buddy. In one breath you're trying to convince us all what an extraordinarily hard worker you are, and in the next you tell us how slack your job is. You're experience in "the patch" is obviously limited so maybe you should think about your comments before you go opening your mouth and making yourself look foolish. Good for you, you lucked out and got a good-paying panty-waist's job. If you're such hot shit, lets you and I take a drive out to my rig so you can give the crews a pep talk and tell them how easy they have it and how their 84 hours a week is a cakewalk. We can see how long you last before the first guy drops your cocky ass like a bag of dirt. You're half-ass carpentry job might be easy, but that's hardly the case for all oil workers chump. I've done carpentry and framing, carpentry is a breeze, framing is a good honest day's work but rigging is the hardest shit I've done alongside building silos. Why do you think most new hires only last 1 hitch?I do carpentry and help the electricians. I have no ticket, not even an apprenticeship. Three weeks on three off. Anybody who tells you people working in the oil patch have it hard is full of shit. 84 hours a week is @#$! all.
Where'd you come from dude and what's your experience been? I'd love to think Otter drivers are worth 10k/month and maybe they should be, but it just ain't in the cards most places you go. You think the average float op's monthly budget warrants that? Tell you what, I know a guy looking for an Otter driver, I'll give you his name and address on the condition you go talk to him in person and make your 10k/month with 5 days off demands. You'll have big shoes to fill, the previous guy was very experienced, very sought after and without a doubt, twice the pilot you are, and worked for what he considered to be a fair, standard wage. So you think my friend will give you the job or his size 12 boot up your ass?I too am amazed by how some of you guys undervalue yourselves.....84 hours a week is @#$! all. I work more then that in the summer flying season, with maybe a couple days off a month, and I work for a great company. Damn straight a beaver/otter pilot deserves a minimum of 300 a day. Fixed wing pay is bull shit. There's helicopter pilots in the mediums making over 150 a hour! An otter pilot working 25 days a month flying 150 hours should be getting close to 10 g. We're getting left behind by first year apprentices in the trades.
Not as much as you apparently think. But go ahead, make your demands, I love it, it just makes the job market that much sweeter and easier for those of us with our feet on the ground and our egos in check. I'll be laughing all the way to the bank with my season's first fair paycheck while you cash your EI check to put gas in the Pinto to start a roadtrip in June groveling for scraps and dockjobs.Sure the tradesmen are in demand, but obviously so are pilots.
I'm a firm believer in demanding a fair wage, but there's a big difference between a fair sum and an exorbitant one. You think just because there's more jobs and supposedly fewer float pilots than there was 5 years ago, that you can try to extort money from employers? Do you think that's good for the long-term sustainability of this current job market? 10k/month would be great, but again, for the average joe float op, it just ain't in the cards. Do you have any comprehension of the overhead associated with a float operation? Do you really think you should be making more than the guy who owns the joint? Do you still want jobs to be available 5 years down the road? You think because in the 70's you could make $3600 now you can ask for 10k? How much has the price of fuel and insurance alone skyrocketed since that time? If you want more money, then quit your bitching and moaning and get off your lazy asses and focus on the small handful of companies that can afford to pay, but they are few and far between. Like I said, stop by and see me when you still haven't found work in June, I'll slip you a 5 to clean my floats, it's not like I won't be able to afford it.
Well, after four pages of discussions on this subject...and a good subject it is, we seem to be doing circles with the 'he said, she said' theme. Why doesn't someone more computer literate than I make up one of those POLLS to get a consensus on what we all think and maybe give us an idea of what we should be looking for in regards to wages this season. I for one will be asking for a raise but am a little confused as to what we're all worth this year.
Ok, I figured it out, must be bored. Check the Bush Flying forum to cast your vote.
Ok, I figured it out, must be bored. Check the Bush Flying forum to cast your vote.
well said...
nothing
Last edited by dash2/3 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Harbour Air in Vancouver charters out their Beavers for $6.77 a mile. (Give or take a few cents...that was last summer.)
A company in Northern Ontario I flew for back in 2003 chartered out their Beaver for $4.50 a mile.
So over a $2 difference per mile from West to East, much like the big salary difference from West to East.
So why is this do you think? Some reasons I can think of are:
1. Cost of maintenance is different flying in the salt . compared to Lake to lake.
2. South West BC Beavers fly passengers who expect tricked out sharp looking machines with nice interiors, headsets etc. as opposed to Eastern Beavers which are almost always stock with plywood floors.
3. Most Eastern operators have probably owned their machines forever, or almost, so have most likely paid them off back when they only cost a couple hundred thousand dollars and most likely their rates haven't increased with the times.
4. Fancy South West BC Beavers carry mainly people so probably carry higher liability and hull insurance than their Eastern counterparts.
5. Most Eastern operators (not all of course) use their machines to transport people and freight into their own fishing and hunting camps, so the owners probably rely on the machines more for transportation and the camps more for profit.
These are a few reasons that make sense off the top of my head. Anyone else?
As for wages, like I said above, $25 an hour duty day, 12 hour duty days, 5 on, 2 off. So $300 a day, $6000 a month, with 2 days off in a row each week. (And don't go thinking this is some cushy gig. We work our bags off during the season, like all float guys do. We do it all without a dock guy, but it keeps us busy, and before you know it, we're cracking cold ones at the end of the day and planning what we'll be doing for our weekend.)
A company in Northern Ontario I flew for back in 2003 chartered out their Beaver for $4.50 a mile.
So over a $2 difference per mile from West to East, much like the big salary difference from West to East.
So why is this do you think? Some reasons I can think of are:
1. Cost of maintenance is different flying in the salt . compared to Lake to lake.
2. South West BC Beavers fly passengers who expect tricked out sharp looking machines with nice interiors, headsets etc. as opposed to Eastern Beavers which are almost always stock with plywood floors.
3. Most Eastern operators have probably owned their machines forever, or almost, so have most likely paid them off back when they only cost a couple hundred thousand dollars and most likely their rates haven't increased with the times.
4. Fancy South West BC Beavers carry mainly people so probably carry higher liability and hull insurance than their Eastern counterparts.
5. Most Eastern operators (not all of course) use their machines to transport people and freight into their own fishing and hunting camps, so the owners probably rely on the machines more for transportation and the camps more for profit.
These are a few reasons that make sense off the top of my head. Anyone else?
As for wages, like I said above, $25 an hour duty day, 12 hour duty days, 5 on, 2 off. So $300 a day, $6000 a month, with 2 days off in a row each week. (And don't go thinking this is some cushy gig. We work our bags off during the season, like all float guys do. We do it all without a dock guy, but it keeps us busy, and before you know it, we're cracking cold ones at the end of the day and planning what we'll be doing for our weekend.)
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shimmydampner
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Hull insurance may be higher for nicer birds depending on how much the operator values it at, but minimum public liability should be the same should it not? Same number of seats, same liability. I'm not sure on that though.180 wrote:4. Fancy South West BC Beavers carry mainly people so probably carry higher liability and hull insurance than their Eastern counterparts.
If you don't have dock help, add another $12-15 per hour to your dosh.
I admit trying to equate an 8-hour flight day to a daily rate doesn't work, but why are we so excited about a 12 hr duty day, every day for 5 or 6 days? A $400 day is $33/hour.
I bet bulldozer operators don't work 12 hr. days and they sure as hell don't have to manually load and unload things every hour or so.
I admit trying to equate an 8-hour flight day to a daily rate doesn't work, but why are we so excited about a 12 hr duty day, every day for 5 or 6 days? A $400 day is $33/hour.
I bet bulldozer operators don't work 12 hr. days and they sure as hell don't have to manually load and unload things every hour or so.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
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ragbagflyer
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Shimmy you need to calm yourself down. I wasn't suggesting that al pilots should go on strike because they aren't pulling in 10K, nor was I suggesting your boys on the rigs aren't pulling their weight. But those are some of the toughest jobs in exploration/mining/the oil fields. There's a lot of slack jobs getting premium coin. Obviously oil companies have the money to pay for it. Also, I'm certainly not demanding that kind of money, I wouldn't even have the nerve to expect to fly an otter with me experience. But you can't convince me a career bush pilot doens't deserve good money. My buddy up here in the north was making 70 bucks an hour on a turbine otter on wheels, dutying out all summer. That's roughly 7500 bucks. A few more seasons of that and I don't think 10 G is out of the picture. Defineitly at the upper end of the scale but not ridiculous. You seem to take the idea as a personal insult. Be careful belittling the experiences of those you have not met. It makes you come off as nothing more then bitter and jaded.
I ran excavators, rock trucks and dozers for two years.. Most days were between 10 and 14hrs.. BUT! You were paid time and a half to the 10hr mark and double time after that.xsbank wrote:
I bet bulldozer operators don't work 12 hr. days and they sure as hell don't have to manually load and unload things every hour or so.
Made for some good $$ come time for the paycheck.
HOWEVER! It's wet, dirty work and yes.. you WILL be out slogging in the shit every couple of hours. Gotta grease the machines, change buckets, show the uneducated/licenced grunts what they need to do etc etc.
My pay is now almost on-par in aviation with what it was running heavy equipment.
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sky's the limit
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Hi Folks,
Just been reading through your thread, and one of you PM'd me to post a few bits about pay in the Rotary world where we work in machines that go out the door for roughly the same amounts per hr. I have never flown Coastal Floats, but it seems to me you guys don't really make a fair amount across the board, that said, there are always some doing better than others.
Rotary is pretty much skill based, unless you're in the AB Oil Patch, but here on the Coast, and in the Mountains it's certainly a skill based system. You can either do the work, or you can't. Some people just can't do some types of jobs, if you can, you're laughing.
Using a 3000hr pilot as a GENERAL example, seeing as most of you are around that level and up, and keeping in mind this will go only as far a my own knowledge of my own pay, and that of friends. We'll also keep this to "light" helicopters, as the "Medium" pay rises dramatically.
Typical endorsements(paid by the companies) - Bell 206, Astar series, Hughes 500, Bell 407.
BCFS Mountain Course Approved(req'd to fight fires in BC, $20k+ course)
Schedules for pilots fall into a few categories. Full time "Base" pilots, working out of one location most of the year, very little time away from home. Full-time "Pool" pilots, only work away from home on tours ranging from 28 and 14, 14 and 14, 21, and 14, 28 and 7, to the odd 42 and 14. Then there are "Contract" seasonal guys, generally employed about 4-5months.
The pay is usually based on a Monthly Base Wage, plus Flight pay, with Contract pilots being hourly only, but with daily Minimums. Generally 2.5hrs for the term of the contract. Now keep this in mind when I get to wages.
Wages.
Most Full-Time Pilots will be earning between $2500-$4000/mo Base Pay, with an hourly Flight pay from $50-$80+/hr. So Average that out and you get a guy earning $3000/mo, and about $60-$70/hr. Most will fly between 500-800hr/yr. There is also normally an "Away From Base Pay" that comes in around $40/day+ Per Diem($45/day) for South of 60, and more(up to $70/day + Per Diem) North of 60. Usually benefits packages are offered, and they range from 100% EVERYTHING and Pension etc, to the 80%-20% ones with bonuses.
The pool guys will work about 200-230+days per year, the rest off. The Base guys work more of a Monday-Friday thing, with summers being busier, and winters less so.
Contract Pilots are a bit different. They are given a large hourly, usually $140-$150/hr, and given a daily Min of about 2.5hrs. So these guys based on 100hr months are making $14,000-15,000. Of course the way the industry is right now, many will Time-Ex in 20-25 days (150hrs X $140/hr = $21,000/20-25days) They get no benefits, and when work is good, like now, they make a pile and go sit on a beach.
Generally speaking the "light" machines are chartered out from anywhere around $800/hr(206/500), to $2000/hr for a B2 Astar or 407.(that's the high end for those machines) Not that far off from many of the float machines you fly.
So, most guys I know are on about $70,000-$90,000/yr depending on company, type of work, type of machine, and schedule, with a few in the $100,000 range. There are some who work like hell all year and are well into 6 figures, around $120,000/yr for an Astar moving diamond drills in the mountains. They work HUGE days, fly HUGE hrs, and they can have it as far as I'm concerned... No life.
As I mentioned earlier, the Mediums pay quite a bit more, and the Heavies even more. Work less, make more....
Anyway, I hope that all makes some sense to you.
Good luck this summer, see ya out there.
STL
Just been reading through your thread, and one of you PM'd me to post a few bits about pay in the Rotary world where we work in machines that go out the door for roughly the same amounts per hr. I have never flown Coastal Floats, but it seems to me you guys don't really make a fair amount across the board, that said, there are always some doing better than others.
Rotary is pretty much skill based, unless you're in the AB Oil Patch, but here on the Coast, and in the Mountains it's certainly a skill based system. You can either do the work, or you can't. Some people just can't do some types of jobs, if you can, you're laughing.
Using a 3000hr pilot as a GENERAL example, seeing as most of you are around that level and up, and keeping in mind this will go only as far a my own knowledge of my own pay, and that of friends. We'll also keep this to "light" helicopters, as the "Medium" pay rises dramatically.
Typical endorsements(paid by the companies) - Bell 206, Astar series, Hughes 500, Bell 407.
BCFS Mountain Course Approved(req'd to fight fires in BC, $20k+ course)
Schedules for pilots fall into a few categories. Full time "Base" pilots, working out of one location most of the year, very little time away from home. Full-time "Pool" pilots, only work away from home on tours ranging from 28 and 14, 14 and 14, 21, and 14, 28 and 7, to the odd 42 and 14. Then there are "Contract" seasonal guys, generally employed about 4-5months.
The pay is usually based on a Monthly Base Wage, plus Flight pay, with Contract pilots being hourly only, but with daily Minimums. Generally 2.5hrs for the term of the contract. Now keep this in mind when I get to wages.
Wages.
Most Full-Time Pilots will be earning between $2500-$4000/mo Base Pay, with an hourly Flight pay from $50-$80+/hr. So Average that out and you get a guy earning $3000/mo, and about $60-$70/hr. Most will fly between 500-800hr/yr. There is also normally an "Away From Base Pay" that comes in around $40/day+ Per Diem($45/day) for South of 60, and more(up to $70/day + Per Diem) North of 60. Usually benefits packages are offered, and they range from 100% EVERYTHING and Pension etc, to the 80%-20% ones with bonuses.
The pool guys will work about 200-230+days per year, the rest off. The Base guys work more of a Monday-Friday thing, with summers being busier, and winters less so.
Contract Pilots are a bit different. They are given a large hourly, usually $140-$150/hr, and given a daily Min of about 2.5hrs. So these guys based on 100hr months are making $14,000-15,000. Of course the way the industry is right now, many will Time-Ex in 20-25 days (150hrs X $140/hr = $21,000/20-25days) They get no benefits, and when work is good, like now, they make a pile and go sit on a beach.
Generally speaking the "light" machines are chartered out from anywhere around $800/hr(206/500), to $2000/hr for a B2 Astar or 407.(that's the high end for those machines) Not that far off from many of the float machines you fly.
So, most guys I know are on about $70,000-$90,000/yr depending on company, type of work, type of machine, and schedule, with a few in the $100,000 range. There are some who work like hell all year and are well into 6 figures, around $120,000/yr for an Astar moving diamond drills in the mountains. They work HUGE days, fly HUGE hrs, and they can have it as far as I'm concerned... No life.
As I mentioned earlier, the Mediums pay quite a bit more, and the Heavies even more. Work less, make more....
Anyway, I hope that all makes some sense to you.
Good luck this summer, see ya out there.
STL
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sky's the limit
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One more thing,
I forgot to mention that MOST jobs we go on in the summer are on 4hr Mins. Forestry, most camp jobs like mining exploration etc. So it's not uncommon to fly 100hr in a month, but get paid for 120-140 depending on how many big hr days you had. So if you fly a 150, you can often see 170hrs of billable time on your paycheck.
In winter mins are less, but still there for most Camp/Hotel based jobs.
STL
I forgot to mention that MOST jobs we go on in the summer are on 4hr Mins. Forestry, most camp jobs like mining exploration etc. So it's not uncommon to fly 100hr in a month, but get paid for 120-140 depending on how many big hr days you had. So if you fly a 150, you can often see 170hrs of billable time on your paycheck.
In winter mins are less, but still there for most Camp/Hotel based jobs.
STL
One day overtime where I work - $750.00.
Very interesting post, Sky. Most of us fixed wing guys don't have much to do with rotary guys. Interesting that the company pays for endorsements and courses. Good luck in finding that happening too much on our side. I am also impressed with how professional your side sounds...better organized.
Very interesting post, Sky. Most of us fixed wing guys don't have much to do with rotary guys. Interesting that the company pays for endorsements and courses. Good luck in finding that happening too much on our side. I am also impressed with how professional your side sounds...better organized.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
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justplanecrazy
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You know I just shake my head reading this. There is definately a shortage of experienced float drivers and that definately should affect the going wages. the only thing is there are too many naive drivers out there that base their deserved wages solely on what the pilot before them took.
Look at how much it costs to get where you are, the daily responsibility, the danger factor, the physical work factor, you definately deserve more. The aviation industry has been underpaid for years and the sole reason is there was always someone behind you with enough experience waiting to take the job for whatever pay was being offered. You're now in a situation where that doesn't exist and the employers should be offering more to ensure their machines are operating safely with experienced drivers that year.
No you don't walk into the nearest operator and tell them you won't fly their C180 for anything less then 10g/month, but you certainly don't take the first offer you're given. Approach the operators that you don't want to work for. Find out what they'll offer you and what your friends in the industry are making. After you've done the ground work, then walk into the office of the operator that you want to work for with their low ball salary. Tell them you are getting offers from these companies for this much but you'd prefer to work with them, what can they do for you?
With the amount of hours it takes to become insurable/employable and the cost of float plane rentals, there will continue to be a serious shortage out there. Even without the pilots demanding higher wages, the companies will find themselves having to advertise higher wages in order to get enough interest to be able to operate that season. It'll happen on its own but with the aviation cycles, it might not be a bad idea to start facilitating it now while we're still flying and theres some movement.
Look at how much it costs to get where you are, the daily responsibility, the danger factor, the physical work factor, you definately deserve more. The aviation industry has been underpaid for years and the sole reason is there was always someone behind you with enough experience waiting to take the job for whatever pay was being offered. You're now in a situation where that doesn't exist and the employers should be offering more to ensure their machines are operating safely with experienced drivers that year.
No you don't walk into the nearest operator and tell them you won't fly their C180 for anything less then 10g/month, but you certainly don't take the first offer you're given. Approach the operators that you don't want to work for. Find out what they'll offer you and what your friends in the industry are making. After you've done the ground work, then walk into the office of the operator that you want to work for with their low ball salary. Tell them you are getting offers from these companies for this much but you'd prefer to work with them, what can they do for you?
With the amount of hours it takes to become insurable/employable and the cost of float plane rentals, there will continue to be a serious shortage out there. Even without the pilots demanding higher wages, the companies will find themselves having to advertise higher wages in order to get enough interest to be able to operate that season. It'll happen on its own but with the aviation cycles, it might not be a bad idea to start facilitating it now while we're still flying and theres some movement.
We have no effective screening methods to make sure pilots are sane.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
I hope I'll get a decent raise when I go back this season. I really like where I work but the real problem for me is the six months of the year when I'm not working. Has anyone here benefited from year round pay? I'm thinking that for a good Beaver driver in NWO... $4000/month during the season, and $2000/month just to keep him on board over the winter?
That 2000/month wouldn't exactly be for "nothing". Like I said it would keep me from going somewhere else that offers a bigger pay check. That being said, my employer would save himself the hassle and money involved with the hiring process, the subsequent training, and the "sorry I just dinged your new floats!" scenario.
I'll see how this season goes and what the prospects are like afterwards. I may float this idea by my boss... Although I doubt he'll approve and subsequently I doubt I'll return.
Oh and I concur with all this pay raise talk... I seriously do a shitload of work over the summer. If only I was paid hourly with overtime like in construction!!
That 2000/month wouldn't exactly be for "nothing". Like I said it would keep me from going somewhere else that offers a bigger pay check. That being said, my employer would save himself the hassle and money involved with the hiring process, the subsequent training, and the "sorry I just dinged your new floats!" scenario.
I'll see how this season goes and what the prospects are like afterwards. I may float this idea by my boss... Although I doubt he'll approve and subsequently I doubt I'll return.
Oh and I concur with all this pay raise talk... I seriously do a shitload of work over the summer. If only I was paid hourly with overtime like in construction!!
I just turned down an excellent flying job because of the base pay and milage thing. Otherwise I would have jumped on it. I've been flying for some time and still don't make $300 bucks a day ( OK close to it ), and $40 bucks an hour? HA! What if you do get $40 bucks an hour to fly and then only fly 3 hours a day? I'm happy flying in the summer months and working alternative jobs in the Winter months. Don't be lazy and go on Ei in the winter. Alberta needs lots of meat in the winter, so all you starving bush pilots can suck it up and get a job out here 
P.S. Tim Horton's in GP pays $14 buck an hour and A & W pays up to $16 for unskilled types....
P.S. Tim Horton's in GP pays $14 buck an hour and A & W pays up to $16 for unskilled types....
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shimmydampner
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- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:59 pm
If it's on wheels that must be a 12-month gig. At $7500/month that's $90k/year. You can't tell me that's not a fair wage. Sure, if they'll pay more take it, but at that yearly salary you're not getting the shaft by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone who can complain about that is a whiny bitch plain and simple. But, then again, it seems like alot of pilots these days could fit that description.ragbagflyer wrote:My buddy up here in the north was making 70 bucks an hour on a turbine otter on wheels, dutying out all summer. That's roughly 7500 bucks.
Last edited by shimmydampner on Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ragbagflyer
- Rank 7
- Posts: 719
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:45 pm
- Location: Somewhere rocky or salty.
Yeah shimmy, I totally agree that 7500 a month aint bad, hell it's pretty damn good. But I think I screwed up on the math. He was hitting 150 hours in some thirty day periods which in therory works out to 10500. Now it's not guaranteed and after 150 hours in that time they reset with 5 days off. And what's the yearly maximum for flight hours? Is it 1200 or 1500, I cant remember. But that does work out to about 84000 k per year. Assuming of course that you max out on flight times. That's what I was getting at though. In some places the bush guys on the bigger machines are doing alright. I just think it would be good to see higher pay across the board for the high timers. There's nothing wrong with making a career in the bush but there's gotta be some incentive. Refer to STL's post a few replies up regarding what the helicopter pilots earn. Granted there are certain risks and a lot of specialty flying in rotary, but even accounting for that, the fixed wing and rotary pay scales are WAY out of sych.
As a small operator my one pilot pulled in close to 60,000.He gets free housing,alot of meals supplied,the odd tank of gas for his truck,a couple paid trips per year,monthly holiday pay and still stays on his monthly pay when he takes time off.This fellow came to me with not alot of time.He started out with a much lower wage,but worked his way up in 1.5 years.I can not see starting a guy out on big wages until he has proven himself.Showed his work ethic,decision making skills,and how he handles the aircraft.I have been blessed with very good pilots in the last 3 years.My last operation was different,paid one pilot to fly my beaver 5,000 plus housing.It was like babysitting,the 185 driver was worse.Both these pilots had good time.Even with all the company training,they would @#$! around away from base.One was put on a short leash,the other fired.He went on to crash and take 4 souls with him.So good wages don't always buy the operator good pilots.Also I notice more of the new pilots lack the hands and feet to handle a plane let alone be sent away from base on a trip.Don't get me wrong I believe in paying decent wages,but first want to see how he handles the plane.I don't see them offering to pay for something they wrecked due to there stupidity.I think a bonus system at the end of there job would be a better way to go.
