Flight level 23oh!

[Doc]

"Approach, this is Chrome Plated Triple, Nickel Eight Ball Ten, we're intercoursing the local sector, going down on the Mary...."
"Roger, Nickel Eight Ball Ten, you've got the nod to hit the sod...."

Anybody know where to get some of his stuff?

[mcrit]

Perhaps Ace McCool isn't the best role model for this.

[flying4dollars]

March 27th, 1977
Tenerife, Canary Islands
583 dead.



KLM: Uh, the KLM ... four eight zero five is now ready for take-off ... uh and we're waiting for our ATC clearance.

TENERIFE TOWER: KLM eight seven * zero five uh you are cleared to the Papa Beacon climb to and maintain flight level nine zero right turn after take-off proceed with heading zero four zero until intercepting the three two five radial from Las Palmas VOR.

KLM: Ah roger, sir, we're cleared to the Papa Beacon flight level nine zero, right turn out zero four zero until intercepting the three two five and we're now (at take-off).

KLM CAPTAIN: We gaan. (We're going)

TENERIFE TOWER: OK.


Since it won't kill you to use standard terminology and not using it quite clearly can, why is there even a debate about this?

easy fella..we're talking about the difference between saying 23oh and 23zero. Not a language barrier.

[freakonature]

Ok nugget,kick the tire's, light the fire's, select zone 5. Tag the bogey but don't get in a fur ball. Don't bore sight,check six, bingo to Mom. GOT IT?

[Rockie]

March 27th, 1977
Tenerife, Canary Islands
583 dead.



KLM: Uh, the KLM ... four eight zero five is now ready for take-off ... uh and we're waiting for our ATC clearance.

TENERIFE TOWER: KLM eight seven * zero five uh you are cleared to the Papa Beacon climb to and maintain flight level nine zero right turn after take-off proceed with heading zero four zero until intercepting the three two five radial from Las Palmas VOR.

KLM: Ah roger, sir, we're cleared to the Papa Beacon flight level nine zero, right turn out zero four zero until intercepting the three two five and we're now (at take-off).

KLM CAPTAIN: We gaan. (We're going)

TENERIFE TOWER: OK.


Since it won't kill you to use standard terminology and not using it quite clearly can, why is there even a debate about this?

easy fella..we're talking about the difference between saying 23oh and 23zero. Not a language barrier.

Language barrier had nothing to do with that accident that standard terminology wouldn't have prevented. And how exactly do you tell the difference between a benign misunderstanding and a deadly one before it becomes deadly?

Many years ago my instructor explained something to me and then asked if I got it. I did and so said yes. Perfectly normal except he was really asking if I had control, which I didn't. We didn't realized no one was flying the airplane until we were through 10,000 ft vertically and supersonic. Each one of us thought the other guy was driving and we were wondering what each other was up to. That was a benign misunderstanding between two English speaking guys that was only seconds away from being fatal.

I'm glad you can tell the difference before something kills you, but I would rather just always minimize the risk by using standard terminology.

[freakonature]

Standard terminology. Exactaly

[flying4dollars]

Standard terminology. Exactaly

as someone mentioned earlier, standard terminology and radio work would have everyone saying "over" "over and out" etc. who uses that anymore? aviation has evolved, so have radio calls, to a degree. In this case, saying oh instead of zero is minor...absolutely minor.

[Rockie]

Saying "over" or "over and out" is not required anywhere that I've seen. But neither is it prohibited so if you want to say it you wouldn't be wrong.

This discussion has progressed beyond simply "Oh" vs "zero" anyway. There cannot possibly be standard phraseology for every circumstance when speaking on the radio and sometimes plain language is the only way to go. However when it comes to clearances, instructions, readbacks and imparting operational information to someone, standard phraseology is absolutely essential. We can't claim ignorance of the standard, and willfully ignoring it makes no sense.

Standard Phraseology and terminology exists for a very, very good reason. It's not for us to decide what's minor and what isn't.

[Nark]

In the morning the last person on "fire watch" would wake up the platoon a few minutes before actual reveille (0600). The procedure was to bang on the DI's door and receite the time.

Candidate: "TIME ON DECK IS OH FIVE THIRTY"

DI: "WHAT!?!?!?! IT'S ZEEEEEEERRRRROOOO NOT FUCKING OH. OH IS THE SOUND YOUR MOTHER MADE LAST NIGHT. NOW TRY IT AGAIN (insert whatever curse you can think.)

[Rowdy]

Wow guys.. just... wow!

Whole lot of people gettin' all bent out of shape and arguing over semantics and phraeseology?!? Jeebus.. And we wonder why they don't pay us properly in aviation..

OH!! is what your girlfriend says when yer off flyin and I'm over TCOB

[chu me]

After reading a thread about whether to say 23 oh or 23 zero, and the correlation between that and professional flying. I wonder, if any of you ( including those who think if you say 23 oh you are an unprofessional lazy pilot ) have noticed the atrocious spelling that goes on around here and think that is more of an indicator of unprofessional behaviour than saying 23 oh. People use spell check or just learn how to spell!!!! I actually saw the word "standard" spelled three different ways in one sentence. People other than pilots read this forum and must think we are morons because we cannot spell.


There I'm done....... have at'er boys

[Cat Driver]

Saying "over" or "over and out" is not required anywhere that I've seen. But neither is it prohibited so if you want to say it you wouldn't be wrong.

Jeses Rockie, you are usually reasonably reasonable, but how do you figure a pilot could finish every transmission with " Over and Out " and that wouldn't be wrong.......but using the word " oh " in place of zero is wrong?

By the way I finished my career overseas so I never used the word " oh " to replace zero because I also use standard phraseology because it helps prevent the other party miss understanding your message.

But even though " Over and Out " at one time was a standard phrase I had thought that we had moved beyond that era and it would now be considered wrong to use it.

[Rockie]

Well, I didn't say you wouldn't be laughed at from here to India. But technically you wouldn't be wrong and that's all I'm saying. I'm not in any way advocating saying it.

When I fly with people I try and instill within them habits that they will need when they get on bigger airplanes that fly to places other than YVR/YYZ/YUL. It goes beyond just radio work and also includes handling both on the ground and in the air. But proper radio work is essential when you speak to controllers in places like China who only know aviation English. The time to start developing those habits is RFN.

I don't have a big beef with 23OH like I said before. I just think if a professional knows the proper way to do something then they should make an effort to do it the proper way.

I think that's reasonable and I know without even asking that you do too.

BTW, pilots are not considered professionals. Professionals are people who set their own standards, and who regulate and discipline themselves like Doctors, Lawyers and Engineers. I firmly believe we are professionals and are perfectly capable of meeting the same standard as Doctors etc... That means doing things properly through self discipline rather than enforcement, and not accepting mediocrity.

[Cat Driver]

We are on the same wave length on this Rockie.....I was only pullin yer pecker.

Right now I have to walk down to my sail boat and hope the epoxy repair I did on the deck fitting yesterday set up hard enough to re-drill the holes and bolt the cleat back on.

[Rockie]

Love the boat by the way. I'm insanely jealous.