The life of a "New Hire"

[rudder]

you can't say WestJet pays it's pilots more.

You are right it is very difficult to say who is paid more. The only wages I could find from Westjet online had a 25% stock option. So a straight up wage comparison would be very difficult. Less the 25% option westjet was within a few grand pay wise.

On a currency adjusted basis, AC has the highest hourly pay rates of any North American legacy carrier. And do not forget to add another 30% to cover pension and benefits expense.

A basic wage comparison:
AMR 176,037. 12yr 737 pilot.
CO 159,197. 12yr SN pilot.
Delta 163,402. 12yr 737 pilot.
United 144,292. 12yr 320 pilot.
NW 147,437. 12yr 320 pilot.
Air Canada 159,360 12yr 320 pilot.
These wages are based on an 80hr month over a 12 month period- all converted to Canadian funds as of today. Also the 30% to cover pension and benefits would apply to all legacy carriers.
Although AC is at the upper end of legacy carriers I still fail to see your point that AC wages are out of whack.
flapless

Don't cherry pick but take all AC operated fleet types vs US legacy carriers and the hourly pay rate differentials are obvious. Having said that, the precipitous drop in the C$ this week is certainly quickly bringing parity.

Re: pension costs. There are no longer any US legacy carrier pilots accruing benefits in any employer sponsored DB plan. Typical employer contributions to the replacement B-fund plans are 9-12%.

[rudder]

Rudder,


An E190 FO taday makes 63% of the pre CCAA DC-9 FO wage.

By far the hardest hit position bar none for anyone working for AC or any affiliate.

As of today ( not adjusted for inflation) a comparison of pre CCAA wages.

E190 FO down 37%
E190 CA down 28%
A320 CA/FO down 20%

What is your wage in comparison to pre CCAA levels?

The pilot wage market in the US has already determined that the E190 is not going to be compensated as a DC9. As for the 320, there are US carriers that are off pre-CH11 book rates by greater than 30%. What is your point?

[Brick Head]

The pilot wage market in the US has already determined that the E190 is not going to be compensated as a DC9.

Would that be the wage market determined through CCAA and CH11? Don't you think a couple of rounds of real bargaining should take place before you make a statement like that?

The point?

AC wages are not out of whack. We did better than most with the 190 wage, but other than that, right in the middle of the pack.

You realize what you are saying? The lowest common denominator is the new normal wage? Hope you aren't on any negotiating committee ...........unless it is managements side of the table.

How about we give everyone a round or two of normal bargaining post ch 11 and CCAA. Then see where the chips fall.

BTW you didn't answer the question.

What is your wage in comparison to Pre CCAA?

Not suggesting it should be less.

What is your wage in comparison to your competition?

Again not suggesting it should be less. I would appreciate if you returned the favor rather than preaching that everyone deserves less.

[rudder]

I would appreciate if you returned the favor rather than preaching that everyone deserves less.

Once again, I am not in any way suggesting that anyone deserves less. Simply trying to get the facts straight.

I am hopeful that all will make gains in 2009. But I am also realistic.

[flapless]

Don't cherry pick but take all AC operated fleet types vs US legacy carriers and the hourly pay rate differentials are obvious. Having said that, the precipitous drop in the C$ this week is certainly quickly bringing parity.

Rudder, I have no plans on digging up more info.... apparently you have it all in front of you. You just don't plan on using it to support your arguments that our pay is out of whack. You seem comfortable that the playground debating technique of "yes it is" should suffice.
To be clear, the thing I have taken exception to, is the idea that AC pilots pay is out of whack. Are we paid well? Yes. Could we be paid more? Judging by the amount of money our executive have found for themselves and friends over the past 4 years... YES. Do i believe that pilots will again make pre 9/11 wages? No. I imagine it could be considered a victory this time next year if we are paid for training.
I believe our profession is dying at the airline level. I would be very surprised if I still work for AC when I retire.
Flapless

[rudder]

Could we be paid more? Judging by the amount of money our executive have found for themselves and friends over the past 4 years... YES.

If labour had acted in concert during CCAA there was a much larger stake in the restructured ACE available for the picking. That did not happen and instead it was the usual table scraps that were settled for. History is the teacher but the lesson has still not been learned.