14 dead in PC-12 crash in Butte, Montana (2009)

[trey kule]

Thanks for the link Salt. That was an excellent read and there is definitely a lesson for all of us there to be learned.

[Axial Flow]

Do Caravan's require FSII as per the AFM at flights below 0 or is it a colder temperature like -15 ? I seem to remember something about using diesel up to temps of -15 and that was without FSII but not sure about the requirements for Jet A.

[FL_CH]

This was quoted in the report:

The Pilatus PC-12 Airplane Flight Manual (AFM), section 2, Limitations, dated March 30, 2001, stated that an
“anti-icing additive [FSII] must be used for all flight operations in ambient [outside air]
temperatures below 0º C.” On a standard day, the temperature is 0° C at 7,500 feet, so most
PC-12 flights would require the use of a FSII.

P.S. Can somebody add "2009" to the Thread Title? It took me a bit to realise the accident didn't just happen today.

[KK7]

Do Caravan's require FSII as per the AFM at flights below 0 or is it a colder temperature like -15 ? I seem to remember something about using diesel up to temps of -15 and that was without FSII but not sure about the requirements for Jet A.

Caravans require FSII for all operating temperatures. I was flying them in temperatures no colder that +20 C and we still had to put in FSII. I believe part of it is the bacterial growth inhibiting properties of the FSII. I heard that there was an STC to instead use an anti-bacterial additive to the fuel for operations above 0 degrees C.

[Axial Flow]

Another thing I would like to discuss here is using can's of prist to meet the FSII requirement as per the AFM. It states the concentration must be a minimum and maximum of a certain percentage. Especially up north each GPM rate in each spot you get fuel varies so you never know what percentage you are getting unless you meter it yourself by figuring out ahead of time how much of the can per side you will need. They give very exact figures in the AFM otherwise you are either too much or too little. On the side of having too little you may run into problems such as this PC12 driver did or too much you might get the seals in the tank gumming up your pumps if you constantly add too much ?

If you crashed and they sampled the fuel and it had more or less than the allowable percentage of FSII could they pin it on the pilot if he administered the Prist via cans to the best of his ability (IE going by the directions on the can). 2 years ago our cans did not seem to have enough pressure to empty the can when it got below -30 so they sent us super charged cans that if you don't modulate the flow it will dump the whole can with 1/4 of the amount of fuel you need to mix it with. Either way I wish fuel everywhere just came with the stuff, I hate handling Prist cause that shit is so toxic it makes your sperm swim backwards. I have never had fuel pressure low lights come on ever so I can't see this as being a problem even with too little or too much but maybe just not having any at all is the problem.

[oldtimer]

I read an article on Prist and the discussion on how it works. Basically, Prist has to be added to the fuel as the fuel is being pumped in to fully mix Prist with the fuel. Otherwise the stuff just sinks to the bottom of the tank.
By adding it in the fueling process, it is mixed thoroughly and as it descends in the tank, it attaches itself to the molecules of water in the fuel.
It is also a biocidal agent which will help to combat the yeasts and fungus that grows in jet fuel but in order to be considered a biocidal agent, it has to be tested and certified by the US Dept. of Agriculture so the manufacturer did not go with the Agriculture certification because it is not a requirement for aviation fuels. They just advise that it is a good idea to add it to the fuel.

[FL_CH]

Either way I wish fuel everywhere just came with the stuff

This makes me wonder why it doesn't. Most planes running on JET-A would likely be operating above the freezing level.

[2.5milefinal]

The owner of the airplane who organized the trip stated that the airplane had transported
the same number of passengers on a previous flight. For that flight and the accident flight leg, the
owner believed that he and the pilot “were not pushing the envelope” because “the trip was
within weight and balance limits,” but the owner acknowledged that “there were just not enough
seatbelts” for every passenger.
Except for the pilot and the adult passenger in the right cockpit seat, the NTSB was
unable to determine the seating position for the airplane occupants. The airplane owner who
organized the trip stated that the adults could hold the children on their laps. However, only one
of the seven children was under the age of 2 years and was permitted by 14 CFR 91.107(a)(3)(i)
to be held on the lap of an adult. The six other children ranged in age from 3 to 9 years. Because
the bodies of four of these children were found farthest from the impact site, the NTSB
concludes that at least four of the seven children on board the airplane were not restrained or
were improperly restrained.

That made me a little sick when I read it.
The owner should be in jail.

[Salt]

Either way I wish fuel everywhere just came with the stuff

This makes me wonder why it doesn't. Most planes running on JET-A would likely be operating above the freezing level.

Shell and Esso used to have the FSII premixed into their tanks or trucks. However the corrosive nature of the additive was hard on the seals and pumps. They now have an injector system that mixes the FSII into the fuel downstream of the tank and pump system. So it's now an "on demand" system.

I've found it easy to get complacent with fuellers and not making the specific request to add FSII to the fuel. When operating regularly out of fields where the fuellers understand the need for FSII for Caravans and PC12's, it can be easy to forget to make the request with a fueller when making a stopover at an airport that may not be as familiar with the aircraft type.

The amount of people in that plane was ridiculous. Quoted from the report: " After the accident, one of the owners of the airplane (who organized the flights) stated that the airplane had
carried the same number of adult and child passengers on previous flights. This owner did not consider weight and
balance to be an issue because the airplane had previously transported 10 adults on the same flight, but he
acknowledged that, for this flight, “there were just not enough seatbelts.” The owner further stated that the adults
“could hold children on laps and put them on the floor to sleep.”

Kids on the floor to sleep?? I second the other posters recommendation of charging the owner.

[Eleveniron]

Not to mention the owner was the father and grandfather to some of the passengers! How do you let that happen???

[wotai139]

Yes, 12 children on that plane. Truly sad.

[citation75]

Would the younger ones be skiing something out of place here