ORNGE?

[spaner]

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[Just another canuck]

I feel for all the guys that will have to sign a bond. I had to do the same not too long ago. Unfortunately that is part of the business and if you want on the wheel you will have to play the game. A 1 year commitment is not too much to ask I think. If you were planning on leaving before that time than this would not be the job for you anyways. Again Doc and Cat I see the point you are making but don't ask me to feel sorry for the other guy. We have all been there.

Part of the business... well, let's make it NOT part of the business. No, a one year commitment is not too much to ask but forking over 10 G's is... and a contract that says they keep the cash for failing a PPC is... or losing your license for any of the many reasons. Or how about not paying back the amount with full interest. This contract is a bunch of bullshit. Do you or do you not see that?

[Mustang06]

Imagine the pressure you will have and how nervous you will be the day of your PPC knowing that if you fail the ride you will loose not only your job but also 10K, that's completely unfair for the pilot.

[spaner]

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[2R]

So now we have beaten the bond thing down again ,perhaps we could beat the single engine ,single generator thing for a while ?

Or we could advance the theory that the downfall of the air ambulance stock has been the people awarding the contracts to the lowest bidder.Not rewarding those who expertise has safely guided and built the industry to a world class standard.
Why is it that the Government thinks it needs new aircraft to provide the service but refuses to award contracts that would allow investment in private operators to invest in new aircraft ?
The government has spent/commited to spending 260 millions when the original budget provision by Bill 171 limited the annual budget to 15 millions .
Anyhoo i do hope that it does result in better service to the Patients even if those patients have "no choice" about flying in single engine aircraft .

[Eleveniron]

So now we have beaten the bond thing down again ,perhaps we could beat the single engine ,single generator thing for a while ?

Or we could advance the theory that the downfall of the air ambulance stock has been the people awarding the contracts to the lowest bidder.Not rewarding those who expertise has safely guided and built the industry to a world class standard.
Why is it that the Government thinks it needs new aircraft to provide the service but refuses to award contracts that would allow investment in private operators to invest in new aircraft ?
The government has spent/commited to spending 260 millions when the original budget provision by Bill 171 limited the annual budget to 15 millions .
Anyhoo i do hope that it does result in better service to the Patients even if those patients have "no choice" about flying in single engine aircraft .

Nor does the patient have a choice about;

1) the age of the aircraft and the quality of the equipment
2) the competancy of the pilots
3) the competancy of the medics
4) the quality of the maintenance
5) the weather
6) etc...

How many medivac patients have died in a plane crash as the result of an engine failure on a single engine turboprop? How many have died when the plane they were transported in flew into the ground or a tower or for numerous other reasons.

Rather than buy new aircraft for Ornge, if the gov't funded Air Barvo (or any carrier for that matter) to but new PC12s, would that be a better situation?

[Cat Driver]

How many medivac patients have died in a plane crash as the result of an engine failure on a single engine turboprop?

How many have been flying medivacs?

[Eleveniron]

How many medivac patients have died in a plane crash as the result of an engine failure on a single engine turboprop?

How many have been flying medivacs?

How many SETP? Not sure on specific numbers...would have to do some pokin around. There are Caravans and PC12s in Canada doing medivac...and i know the PC-12 is doing a lot in other parts of the world.

But my point is there are a ton of issues that affect the patient's safety that he/she has no choice over, and the number of engines strapped on is only one factor. And up until now, it hasn't even played a role. I know, sooner or later it will happen...it's simple math. But it's still not the primary factor to be considered in the safety of the patient, crew and medics. Yet many are focusing on the SE issue only.

[Cat Driver]

Yet many are focusing on the SE issue only.

Why do you not see single engine airplanes in the airlines?

[Eleveniron]

Yet many are focusing on the SE issue only.

Why do you not see single engine airplanes in the airlines?

Well, actually you do. There's many Caravans and PC12s operating in CAR 703, FAR 131 Ops and foreign equivelants.

If you're talking 705 Ops, no as far as I know nothing exists. Do I think it will happen? No... but it also comes down to risk management. If the single fan does quit, the odds of landing safely in a 703 category aircraft far outweigh that of 704 or 705 (considering speeds, weights, size, etc.).

Would I ever want a SETP crossing the pond commercially? No. Then again, 30 years ago how many people believed airlines would be crossing the pond with only 2 engines? Again, risk management. Advances in technology allow the industry to make these changes, and society to accept them.

Someday Cat, you too will embrace it...

[1,2,3&4]

So does anyone who has had an interview have any information on what to expect during the second interview? And for that matter, is there room for negotiations on this ridiculous bond for people with no Pilatus time?

[donut king]

Do the ORNGE Helicopter pilots sign a bond or pay up front ?

Ornge doesn't have heli pilots...Canadian Heli does. Not sure about them.

ORNGE does not employ helicopter pilots yet! They are still employees of Canadian Helicopters Limited....until 2012. New AW139 a/c to be implemented during and up to 2012 inclusive.

No training cost/ bond bulls**t to these pilots. They are unionised as of a few years ago.

ORNGE dispatchers and medics are unionised. CHL pilots same. Only non union workers are CHL helicopter engineers, ORNGE fixed wing drivers and engineers.

I'm thinking of going back to EMS because of union and stability (gov't work)! Will wait for the full ORNGE takeover!

[Cat Driver]

Someday Cat, you too will embrace it...

I very much doubt I will live long enough to embrace single engine IFR in any airplane.

Over the decades I developed some " Risk management " decisions that have served me well.

They are.

I do not fly single engine wheel equipped airplanes over water beyond gliding distance from land.

I do not fly single engine airplanes at night X/ country.

I do not fly single engine IFR.

I do not fly single pilot IFR.

These decisions were my own personal limits that I felt made my survival more likely.

Then again I am a bit of a coward when it comes to risk exposure, maybe it is because I am not a top gun type of personality?

[futboler14]

getting a little annoyed with there ads... hasn't it been months and there still looking for people?

whats going on over there?

[Phlyer]

getting a little annoyed with there ads... hasn't it been months and there still looking for people?

whats going on over there?

What going on is that pilots are taking a stand and saying 'NO' to this kind of BS money up front, myself included. Keep it up!
The only way we can change this crap is by sticking together.

[raven54]

Gotta agree with Cat, the more fans the better.

[ng78]

I guess they don't need F/O's right now, only captains.

[Doc]

I guess they don't need F/O's right now, only captains.

How exciting is that!

Right now, the thought of working for a shiny new company, flying nice new airplanes looks pretty glamorous. And, I'll admit, that to some, it has it's attractions.
BUT
There's always a "but".
Flying a single engine airplane will get tired. Fast.
Flying medevacs will get tired. Fast.
Realizing that your "cargo" is making a lot more money than you, for only working on one leg, will get tired. Fast.

[ng78]

Doc, your points are valid. However, I can think of far worse ways to build time and earn a living as a pilot. I still think Ornge would represent a fantastic opportunity for pilots who don't have a huge amount of time under their belts.

[ipilot54]

Not for long.................

[ng78]

Not for long.................

Care to elaborate?

[upduck]

TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS UP FRONT!!!!!!!!

JUST ANOTHER MAGGOT COMPANY! TOLD YOU SO!!!!!

LET'S RAISE THE BAR!!!!

Really Brown? where'd you confirm that? Is that capts and FOs?

Here it is:

Ah Hah!!! Anyone notice similarities here? Come on boys and girls, where have we seen this kind of bonding before? Think real hard now? I'll give you a hint. The new point man at ORNGE was the old point man at ............... Do we have a winner? Ladies and gentlemen, the million dollar answer is ......... ding ding ding ding ding VEE OH WHY EH GEE EEE YOU ARR

Did somebody say "BOND SCUM"?

[oldncold]

cat // the no s.e.ifr //no s.p.ifr has served you well and i respect that but wop may did medvac in 1929 to fort vermillion single engine.

now this is not to say that it wasn't risky and they did have some issues true !

but surely in heaven even you have to admit that technology has advanced in the last 80 years. I even bet a timmy's you phone your wife on a cell or sat phone in flight to let her know not to worry and that you will be an hour late for dinner eh.

the pc12 2crew with lots of gas(2700lbs burning 350lbs/hr up above 25k) efis/ gpws/ traffic/ wx radar/ 30thousand service ceiling / is alot safer than 2 radials ovr the pacific with 1700miles still to go night. and a oscillating oil pressure gauge on the #1

it is all matter of the times we grew up in and to which we now find ourselves a part off. all of us youngs appreciate ( well most do ) the advancements that the previous generation in aviation has made . heck my old man had to grease evry zirc fitteing on a bell 47 every 25 hrs which in the summer meant he was walking around with a grease gun in his hand .now with star flex and elastomerics in his last yrs as ame felt that he was missing something ( it was the grease gun) fly on cat fly on // the sun never will set on you if you fly west fast enough!!

[square]

Every student in Canada has been flying SP-SE-night everyday of the week .. haven't heard of many accidents and it's not much worse than flying SE over much of the bog or boulder that is western Canada.

[Cat Driver]

To each his own, I would wager that I have more single engine time in more different types of aircraft than most of you here.

Same goes for single pilot IFR.

As to this comment:

haven't heard of many accidents and it's not much worse than flying SE over much of the bog or boulder that is western Canada.

Have you considered I probably have flown in more different countries than you have different areas of Canada square?

Like I said before I have my own self set rules for what and where I fly based on my own personal evaluation of what risks I am willing to take.

When the rest of you get to my stage of flying I'm betting you also will no longer want to fly airplanes where there is risk you can avoid by choice.

Anyhow I'm content with over thirty thousand accident free hours which I would like to believe were partly due to good decision making as I progressed through my career.