If — and that’s still an unproven if, even though the colonel has reportedly made an extensive statement to police — Williams committed the criminal acts he is accused of, there could have been acts of sexual violence committed in Dubai during that 2005-2006 period that should be investigated.
And that’s a big order. There are many cases of sexual assault in Dubai — far more than most people realize.
And here’s the reason why you do not hear of many cases: In Dubai, sexual contact before marriage is illegal. There are numerous reported cases of women reporting rape to Dubai authorities, only to be charged with illegal fornication themselves after their alleged attackers have said the sex was consensual, accepting a lesser punishment themselves.
I can attest to being shocked by the actions of someone I thought I knew pretty well.
I worked with a photo tech here at 22 Wing for a couple of years while I was a Public Affairs Officer. We ended up co-writing a military history book. He got posted to Ottawa with Combat Camera then worked his way out west to finally being with Army News at Shilo. This is a guy with 11 U.N. tours and two tours in Afghanistan. He got booted out of the military for collecting and distributing child porn. He was just about to go on his 6A at Borden followed by a promotion to Sergeant (again) and posting to the Staff College in Toronto. He's out of jail now and would be lucky to get a job washing cars.
Old Dog Flying wrote:I went through London course 5308, "A" Flight...christ I'm an old fart! This whole affair is very hard to accept by anyone in the military or by anyone retired from the "family". This will probably give all military folks a bad name for a long time to come
Per Ardua Ad Astra.
Barney
I'll say you're old, my brother wasn't even born then and he was in high school when I was in Grade 1. You couldn't be more right about the bad name this is going to give military folks though. When the shit hit the fan over the Somalia affair we were all hit with the stigma; I only had a vague idea where Somalia was and I felt it. It was one of the reasons I decided to take the buy out; that and the brutal morale which followed due to it and all the cost cuts from both major political parties. I wonder if this will start another round of cutbacks.
Old Dog Flying wrote:I went through London course 5308, "A" Flight...christ I'm an old fart! This whole affair is very hard to accept by anyone in the military or by anyone retired from the "family". This will probably give all military folks a bad name for a long time to come
Per Ardua Ad Astra.
Barney
I'll say you're old, my brother wasn't even born then and he was in high school when I was in Grade 1. You couldn't be more right about the bad name this is going to give military folks though. When the shit hit the fan over the Somalia affair we were all hit with the stigma; I only had a vague idea where Somalia was and I felt it. It was one of the reasons I decided to take the buy out; that and the brutal morale which followed due to it and all the cost cuts from both major political parties. I wonder if this will start another round of cutbacks.
The locals have already begun to turn on CF members in Trenton/Belleville. One bad apple has turned back a decade of progress in the fickle relationship of Canadians and their military.
Old Dog Flying wrote:I went through London course 5308, "A" Flight...christ I'm an old fart! This whole affair is very hard to accept by anyone in the military or by anyone retired from the "family". This will probably give all military folks a bad name for a long time to come
Per Ardua Ad Astra.
Barney
I'll say you're old, my brother wasn't even born then and he was in high school when I was in Grade 1. You couldn't be more right about the bad name this is going to give military folks though. When the shit hit the fan over the Somalia affair we were all hit with the stigma; I only had a vague idea where Somalia was and I felt it. It was one of the reasons I decided to take the buy out; that and the brutal morale which followed due to it and all the cost cuts from both major political parties. I wonder if this will start another round of cutbacks.
The locals have already begun to turn on CF members in Trenton/Belleville. One bad apple has turned back a decade of progress in the fickle relationship of Canadians and their military.
TheCheez wrote: The locals have already begun to turn on CF members in Trenton/Belleville. One bad apple has turned back a decade of progress in the fickle relationship of Canadians and their military.
I was in the reserves around 9/11 and I can vaguely remember an advisory against wearing the uniform to or from work for the personel's safety.
Was this perhaps south of the border only?
Does anyone remember a time when this did happened, or am I completely off base on this one?
I heard on a local radio news broadcast that the Minister of Defense visited Trenton and when airmen mentioned their concern about public support he urged them to continue to be proud of their uniform and country.
These days it seems the public are less and less supportive and will take any excuse to turn on the military.
Personally, I say hold your head up high. To all those in uniform I will always remain grateful.
Alpha Crit wrote:I knew Russ Williams very well. I was his boss from '90 to '92 in Portage la Prairie. At that time, he was a model young officer and pilot. He was smart, hard working, and an excellent pilot. I hand picked him as one of my wingmen for the final display of the Musket Gold Formation Demonstration team. I worked hard to help get him that Challenger posting because, in my opinion, he deserved it. Even in the face of mounting evidence, my mind refuses to acknowledge that he was capable of committing these awful crimes. I am in shock!
So your Major Greg McQuaid then?
No one really knew this guy. Born in England raised in Caulk River and Scarboro. Attended Upper Canada College where he was a prefect. His Step father is a nuclear engineer now living in France. His brother is a Doctor in Bowmanville and his mom is a physiotherapist at a Toronto hospital. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le1463964/
He's being added by the military...Lieutenant-General André Deschamps, Chief of Air Staff, said Williams has access to a military liaison officer and the base’s chaplain service while incarcerated. “We are providing administrative support as we would any member who is in that situation,” he said. “From a military perspective we are doing our due diligence for the member as we would for anybody else in that circumstance.”
If there was ever a childhood to prepare someone for the transient existence of an Air Force colonel, Russell Williams lived it - a meandering journey that saw him twice change his last name, and took him from England to barren northeastern Ontario to Canada's most prestigious boys' school.
The marriage soured and they divorced. But in the remote and frigid Upper Ottawa Valley, Ms. Williams found love again, and married Mr. Sovka, in 1970.
His father, David Williams, is believed to be in the United States. His mother, who split up with Jerry Sovka about a decade ago
flightlead wrote:For the sake of right vs wrong .... this man is innocent until proven guilty . I find it hard to believe a well rounded, respectful Colonel in the Canadian Forces, is capable of such evil acts. If the evidence is hand's down strong, I hope that he ultimately gets what he deserves.
You find this hard to believe. Just because he is a Colonel does not make him any less immune to being a monster. Look a Hitler, he was just a corporal.
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Kowalski: Sir, we may be out of fuel.
Skipper: What makes you think that?
Kowalski: We've lost engine one, and engine two is no longer on fire.
The Canadian military has always fought and some have died protecting me and my family and fellow Canadians from harm. Not being the most jingoistic person on the ground, my grandfather fought at Vimy and my father was in the Battle of Britain; one maniac cannot sully the Canadian military for me. Stand up and be proud - this sad event will pass.
Je me souviens!
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"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
TheCheez wrote: The locals have already begun to turn on CF members in Trenton/Belleville. One bad apple has turned back a decade of progress in the fickle relationship of Canadians and their military.
I was in the reserves around 9/11 and I can vaguely remember an advisory against wearing the uniform to or from work for the personel's safety.
Was this perhaps south of the border only?
Does anyone remember a time when this did happened, or am I completely off base on this one?
I heard on a local radio news broadcast that the Minister of Defense visited Trenton and when airmen mentioned their concern about public support he urged them to continue to be proud of their uniform and country.
These days it seems the public are less and less supportive and will take any excuse to turn on the military.
Personally, I say hold your head up high. To all those in uniform I will always remain grateful.
It's true. There was a poster on the wall of the JRH in London that depicted a cartoon of a CF member in uniform being verbally harassed by angry long-haired slobby types. I can't remember specifically what it said (so you might not believe me) but it had advice about how to deal with this kind of situation. It looked similar to those safety posters you see in the flying club, with the little cartoons and safety messages. I thought it was kind of funny, the poster was clearly kind of old, but then again this was during the "Oka crisis", so maybe someone dug it up because of that. I can't remember if the poster advocated not wearing your uniform, it was more like, "keep a stiff upper lip, remember that people have a right to their own opinions, be polite, be proud of yourself", etc.
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If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself
When I first joined the reserves in '93, there was not only a poster like that, but also a training video. Not sure what reg force types were being told at the time, but reservists were to keep an extremely low profile if traveling to & from in uniform. At the time, it seemed DND didn't want the general public to see CF members in uniform, period.
At least that was the distinct impression being given.
TheCheez wrote:Geez I'm in the military and raised by a single mother too, guess I should turn myself in.
If you think it would help, by all means, nip it in the bud.
If you followed this thread, I mentioned an "expert" who said this guy doesn't fit the profile of someone who'd do something like this. The more that is coming out about this guy, the more it seems he does have some the characteristics.
Again, the characteristics are common among many serial killers. But having them doesn't automatically mean that you'll be one. Just like smoking won't automatically give you lung cancer but your risks are higher.
I just find it an interesting correlation. If you don't then don't let it keep you up at night.
This will probably give all military folks a bad name for a long time to come
^I don't think that necessarily follows. I'd suspect that one's opinion of the forces is pretty much set as an adult, and isolated incidents, no matter how odd, won't change it one way or another. Unlike, say, the RCMP, who seem to be continually stepping on their d!cks these days.
WRT 'the guy next door' murderers/serial killers - just once, I'd love to see a neighbour of one of these guys stand up on TV and say something other than the standard 'He was such a nice guy' line.. how about " he was a completely sick fuk - we've gone through five cats in the six months that he's lived next door to us!"
eta: quote to make more sense.
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Last edited by North Shore on Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
There was a dude who was convicted of pedophilia, while out on probation kidnapped a 12 year old, held her for 18 years , Eighteen, Dix-ouit 18 years. Had a kid.
He fit the profile, and the neighbors suspected it, called the probation Officer, yet he didn't see the camp/prison she was being held in, (backyard) It wasn't until he was handing out religious material at Berkeley did the campus cops figure out the girl (victim) he was with was the missing 12 year old from 18 years ago.
This might be the case your thinking of.
Jay-Cee Dugard was the girls name.
On a side note, are you going to make it to the Beaver on the 18th?
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Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Old Dog Flying wrote: This will probably give all military folks a bad name for a long time to come.
I would hope most people can look past an isolated incident and not judge an entire military institution as being anything less than admirable for the sacrifices and dedication the majority perform on a daily basis. If the media would investiagte and report on all the positives the troops do instead of dwelling on the negatives we wouldnt have such a perceived anonymousity towards the forces.
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How can you tell which one is the pilot when you walk into a bar?....Don't worry he will come up and tell you.
Anyone with more than two brain cells, knows enough not to judge an entire group of people by the actions of one member.
Blaming the media for a negative perception that any ignorant person may form is acknowledging that we're too individually stupid to gather information and make an informed opinion of our own.
This seems a tragic story, but the last thing I would ever think is that somehow the Canadian military is not filled with honorable people!
I'm just very sorry for the families and friends of the women involved.
The plot gets thicker. It seems he and Bernardo were buddies when they were both attending Scarborough College.
Baltovich was convicted in Elisabeth Bain's disappearance and very recently exonerated. Bernardo has not been eliminated as a suspect and it looks like Williams is about to join the list.
You couldn't be more right about the bad name this is going to give military folks though. When the shit hit the fan over the Somalia affair we were all hit with the stigma; I only had a vague idea where Somalia was and I felt it. It was one of the reasons I decided to take the buy out; that and the brutal morale which followed due to it and all the cost cuts from both major political parties. I wonder if this will start another round of cutbacks.
