Service disruptions during Jazz strike

[Brick Head]

Regretfully, the government stuck their nose in a little early if you ask me.

Right on Que if you ask me. Same as 2001.

Then it was the minister of labor Claudette Bradshaw threatening ACPA.

Intervene just prior to the union giving notice.

Look around folks. Things have changed. No the law hasn't. But the acceptability of gov't intervening to revoke the right to strike has become common place.


It is not just aviation.

[bcflyer]

Ummm guys? I haven't seen any back to work legislation yet have you? It would still have to be pushed through parliment and if I have heard correctly they are all on summer break as of today... Could take a while to get them back and force this bill through. Lots of time to go on strike if you move quickly... Not sure why everyone bails as soon as the government says it is the PROCESS of making back to work legislation.. Hold the line guys, its not over yet.

[Pratt]

If they are threatining back to work legislation for Jazz I imagine ACPA wouldn't stand much of a chance of going on strike if they had to.

[bcflyer]

Again the key word is "threatening" and for some reason this is where almost everybody starts to panic.. I say call their bluff.. Make them come in on their summer vacation and push it through parliment. At the same time EVERY single pilot in Canada should be writing their MP's about this.. There are ALOT of us out there....

[Jaques Strappe]

mbav8r

So Babybus and Jaques Strappe, what is it you're trying to say? It's hard to tell with written word, so I'm curious, is there a tone of resentment in there. It reads like, I used to fly to those places but then Jazz stole that flying from us. Or am I being too sensitive? Or are you looking forward to going there again if we walk?

No, no tone, just stating a fact. Take from it want you want.

[JayDee]

I imagine ACPA wouldn't stand much of a chance of going on strike

ACPA & strike in the same sentence


LOLOLOLOL TFF

[babybus]

quote]
So Babybus and Jaques Strappe, what is it you're trying to say? It's hard to tell with written word, so I'm curious, is there a tone of resentment in there. It reads like, I used to fly to those places but then Jazz stole that flying from us. Or am I being too sensitive? Or are you looking forward to going there again if we walk?[/quote]

You're being too sensitive.I wish all of you luck in improving the status of the airline pilot in Canada.

[mbav8r]

Ok, apologies if I offended anyone.
For your information, one of the reasons that was floated about why, Raitt would legislate us back to work, was the effect on 3rd parties(AC), so if Calin can go in and claim, presumably, finacial hardship if we strike.
Guess what that means for you guys come March. I'm sure it's somewhat true, It can't be good for the bottom line and none of us want a strike, but to take a labour unions biggest tool away, before we even bring it out. She's either corrupt or inept, not sure which.

[yycflyguy]

Ok, apologies if I offended anyone.
For your information, one of the reasons that was floated about why, Raitt would legislate us back to work, was the effect on 3rd parties(AC), so if Calin can go in and claim, presumably, finacial hardship if we strike.
Guess what that means for you guys come March. I'm sure it's somewhat true, It can't be good for the bottom line and none of us want a strike, but to take a labour unions biggest tool away, before we even bring it out. She's either corrupt or inept, not sure which.

As a union, we will never show the solidarity nor the resolve to reach the negotiating position Jazz finds themselves in. Last time through we didn't even send our negotiation committee to the table. Our MEC recommended the first thing to slide across the table and then signed NDAs preventing them from speaking objectively about the "deal". How corrupt is that??

I am still in awe of the conviction of Jazz and like bcflyer has pointed out, it is only a government threat at this point. Call their bluff.

[Brick Head]

Call their bluff.

All that will likely produce is back to work legislation with an appointed arbitrator to set a new contract.

Is that best?

How about a press release stating due to our loyalty to our passengers Jazz ALPA is giving 72 hours notice for labor action. This will not prevent your passengers from getting where they are going.

Then embark on labor action that attacks every performance bonus Jazz gets under the CPA. Any type of labor action is legal after the 72 hour notice. It does not have to be as extreme as full stoppage.

[yycflyguy]

Call their bluff.

All that will likely produce is back to work legislation with an appointed arbitrator to set a new contract.

Is that best?

How about a press release stating due to our loyalty to our passengers Jazz ALPA is giving 72 hours notice for labor action. This will not prevent your passengers from getting where they are going.

Then embark on labor action that attacks every performance bonus Jazz gets under the CPA. Any type of labor action is legal after the 72 hour notice. It does not have to be as extreme as full stoppage.

I think we are saying the same thing. Work to rule while being legislated back is just as disruptive or more-so as a full stoppage. Just like we can pressure the company by merely refusing all make-up and draft flying. The process of arbitrating a "fair" agreement takes time, during that time walk-arounds should take around 40 minutes, no plane leaves the gate on MEL, extra fuel boarded for every flight, late pushes on every flight, slow taxi speeds, no duty day extensions, etc.

It is a process. The government, under corporate pressure, played their card. Stay the course as there are several tactics left to explore from a labour group perspective. Too bad ACPA will never be in this position to fight for a fair agreement. If we get anything other than concessionary it is viewed as a victory.

[Localizer]

As I see it .. there was no reason for the Minister of Labour to get involved at this point. The 72 hour notice has not been served, and the two parties were still in talks. So my view is that this is nothing short of third party meddling .. I think ALPA should be looking into a lawsuit against the government and the ministry of labour for violating our rights to open and free barginning. She has without a doubt prematurely removed some of our clout at the table.

[Brick Head]

Localizer,

As I stated above. Claudette Bradshaw in 2001, the then Liberal Minister of Labor, did the exact same thing. Intervened before notice was given. Just as they thought talks had collapsed and notice from ACPA was pending.

The reason is simple. Once you give notice, they come under public pressure. Until that point no pressure. They are politicians acting in their own interest. That simple.

[airway]

If a employee group is deemed a "essential service" and is not allowed to strike, any arbitrator must include in his decision any gains the group would have got if they had been allowed to strike. Of course, this is difficult to determine without actually having the strike.

Does this also apply if the group is "legislated back to work"?

[Brick Head]

I think we are saying the same thing. Work to rule while being legislated back is just as disruptive or more-so as a full stoppage.

yycFlyguy,

The problem is that once legislated back to work, work to rule is illegal. It is subject to fines and injunctions that will be administered.

Work to rule as a form of labor action after 72 hrs has been given, is not illegal. It can be organized.

Once legislated back to work? Yes you can fight but you have been castrated. Avoid the legislation.

[Brick Head]

If a employee group is deemed a "essential service" and is not allowed to strike, any arbitrator must include in his decision any gains the group would have got if they had been allowed to strike. Of course, this is difficult to determine without actually having the strike.

Does this also apply if the group is "legislated back to work"?

Yes, but in reality?

The arbitrator must also balance that with how long the company says they would have left you on the street. You know what they are going to say don't you? Indefinitely.

I can't see substantial change in a CA through arbitration.

[Localizer]

As I stated above. Claudette Bradshaw in 2001, the then Liberal Minister of Labor, did the exact same thing. Intervened before notice was given. Just as they thought talks had collapsed and notice from ACPA was pending.

The reason is simple. Once you give notice and they come under public pressure. Until that point no pressure. They are politicians acting in their own interest. That simple.

Noted. Do you know if ACPA investigated legal action against the government or the Minister? I do hope ALPA looks hard to see if there is a legal leg to stand on, I think its time to put these people in there place. I voted conservative ... for the last time.

If a employee group is deemed a "essential service" and is not allowed to strike, any arbitrator must include in his decision any gains the group would have got if they had been allowed to strike. Of course, this is difficult to determine without actually having the strike.

Does this also apply if the group is "legislated back to work"?

Jazz has been deemed non-essential service. So they have no leg to stand on with that legislation.

I believe there back to work legislation was going to fall under some financial hardship deal. AC execs were crying that 3 days of a Jazz strike would put AC in CCAA again.

[Brick Head]

Noted. Do you know if ACPA investigated legal action against the government or the Minister? I do hope ALPA looks hard to see if there is a legal leg to stand on, I think its time to put these people in there place. I voted conservative ... for the last time.

Localizer,

They are the law makers. That simple. They have the right and the power.

Avoid the legislation. Notice the words coming out of Lisa Rait. Legislation to prevent work stoppage.


You can loose control of the message and changing strategy becomes impossible. This is why it is important to have a consistent message from the beginning. Your message from the beginning has been full stoppage.

Find an alternative to a stoppage or you will be legislated back if it is not already too late. Pick your poison. Keep control with a creative, slower type labor action, or give your CA to an arbitrator to decide.



It appears from the comments coming from the minister that "public in general" hardship is the rational. Everything from tourism to business to economic recovery has been listed.

I have seen nothing yet that this might be about protecting AC other than a few rumors here.

This is about the politicians protecting themselves IMO

[Jaques Strappe]

I once again applaud the pilots of Jazz for their conviction and the overwhelming mandate they gave their MEC to show that they mean business. ACPA in the meantime is closing their Wawcon survey and so far, less than 40% of the pilot group have even taken the time to respond. The pilots of Air Canada have no business bitching when they get handed a POS contract in my opinion.

I have a hard time believing that they can legislate you back as an " essential service" when there are are other carriers such as Westjet and Porter and last winter the entire Ottawa transit system was shut down for months. Hmmmmmmm.

[teacher]

That's sad for ACPA, our WACON survey folks were flooded with suggestions and demands.

As for the minister, I do also hope that ALPA looks into legal action as this in my opinion could be considered a breach of ethics.

[Bede]

Jazz has been deemed non-essential service. So they have no leg to stand on with that legislation.

The essential service clause allows the Minister to order a group back to work and does not require an Act of Parliament. It is a regulatory mechanism as opposed to a legislated one. Legislating a group back to work requires an Act of Parliament.

[North Shore]

I have a hard time thinking that back-to-work legislation would pass the House, even if they were recalled - unless it was framed as a confidence motion also..

Good Luck, Jazz peeps..

[prop2jet]

Tentative Agreement has been reached and the "roadshows" start Friday.

[yycflyguy]

What's the rumour? 20% over a 4 year contract?

[Inverted2]

We'll know shortly, that number isn't too far off from what I've heard (at least for F/Os)