Mountain Flying, and Flight Training

[robertsailor1]

Lovely little bugsmasher, the mighty T-Craft. Whats with the elk and moose horns in the pic??

[sheephunter]

Well... a lot of us learn to fly in the mountains, off strip by being hired by an outfitters that makes their living by having you fly caribou, moose, goat, sheep, elk, bear meat among many other critters from camp to town or hunting area to camp. I think a lot of us "Bush Pilots" have carried meat, fish and antlers in the north to further our career. Where have you been? Not being sarcastic but most of us flying in the north know the difference between caribou antlers and elk antlers? But honestly, I am lost around large airports, so you know what you know and I know something different. No problem, but htat's where some of us learn our mountain flying skills.

[robertsailor1]

Goes to show you that one should be a little more careful. I looked at the mountains and assumed you were flying in the Rockies, well middle Rockies where caribou do not roam. Took a much closer look and stand corrected. Yes I'm at home at larger airports but I spent years flying the North so I feel just as much at home there. Too be fair though aside from my mistake your not going to be hauling much of a Moose in a T-craft.

[sheephunter]

That's for sure. Not much moose meat went in the T-Cart, but it was my initiation to tailwheel and learning to fly thermals and just happened to be around a lot of antlers and horns for the transition to the PA18-180 on 31" Bushwheels, which was easy after the Taylorcraft. Like I said, no sarcasim... just a way of life for a lot of us trying to get our foot in the door.

[robertsailor1]

Truth is I owned most of the little bug smashers and the T-Craft was always a favorite, that and the Luscombe. Very quick for 65 hp, liked to float on landings on hot days if you were'nt right on the airspeed. Clip the wings and add some power and you had a decent little aerobatic machine. The T-Craft teaches you to fly. I had a wonderful PA-12 150 hp all modded up on Edo 2000's which was a great little machine. Later 180 and 185's but if I had a choice to go flying for an hour I'd go in the T-Craft.

[sheephunter]

yes, float it did and combine a hot day, a little cross wind and a little bit fast and I found I had my hands full while learning but was truly fun as well challenging for a novice to get it on the ground on a short strip. Those little peddles down by your feet were made to be used. Mine was 85hp. and would cruise right around 105 -107 indicated. Wish I still had it with the fuel prices as they are. Never had it on floats.

[Gear Jerker]

I am so grateful for this thread, and for the knowledge you are all sharing. This is absolutely invaluable (well, perhaps my life).

If any of you who are highly experienced with mountain flying live anywhere near Victoria, and would consider doing some mentoring, please pm me.

I have done a "mountain checkout", and am just finishing my CPL. After reading through this entire thread, I feel absolutely humbled.

[Shiny Side Up]

Very unfortunate yesterday, first day in a long time that there was no chinook arch and bunches of rotor clouds on the lee side. Rivendell was regrettably concealed by a fey mist in the valley. No coffee that day, but it was a fine trip. Rare day that its like glass in the mountains, all the valleys there were open but the last, and even it was nice above the concealed bottom.

[Jojo]

Hello everybody,

I'm a student about to get my PPL in the prairies. I'm looking for interesting destinations/trips to go to for my time-building.
I dig up this topic because I was thinking about going from the prairies to Vancouver. I'd fly over the mountains somewhere in the triangle Grande Prairie/Prince George/lake Williston (where the mountains are lower) and then head south to Vancouver. Of course, it would be a several days journey. I precise I don't/won't have a mountain check out.
After having read this topic, I feel like flying in this area is too challenging for a 50-100 hrs private pilot and it would be wise to consider other destinations to get some experience (maybe fly along the mountains only in Alberta).

Has anyone already flown over the "lower" mountains near Prince Georges and could tell me if it's a safer area to fly through ?
Where do students flying in Vancouver's area do their 150 and 300nm x/c ? (and time building)

Thanks in advance

Jojo

[gaamin]

TSB report on that accident from 2+ years ago : http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 1p0106.asp

A good read, and a deterrent to do a "mountain checkride" with any operation/person that does not routinely operate in the mountains.

[iflyforpie]

Yes:

#1. The canyon turn is absolutely useless. If you put yourself in a place where you need to use one... you've already made several mistakes.

GOOD DECISION MAKING > FANCY FLYING

#2. Never when you get yourself in a situation where energy is low and you need to maneuver should you bring the throttle to idle. If you need flaps and are too fast for flap speed... just raise the nose slightly and/or turn, you will be there in no time and your actions will be part of the solution, not the problem.

Again, if you were in a tight situation like that... you should have already been slow had some flap out to reduce turn radius and increase thinking/reaction times.

[Colonel Sanders]

Tiny detail I noticed as I read through the TSB report ...

The instructor had accumulated about 1600 hours of flight time ...
The instructor was a senior instructor at the flying school

1600TT is a "senior" instructor?!

I'm probably showing my age, but to me a "senior" instructor
is a guy with a little grey hair. Generally more than 10 years
of instructing (often much more) and at least 5000TT (often
more).

At the FTU here, the "senior instructor" has over 8000TT last
time I checked, and used to run RCAF Fighter Command. He
doesn't have a whole lot of time - fighter pilots rarely do - but
he's been flying for 50 years, and used to teach at RMC.

That to me is a good example of a "senior" instructor. I am
junior to him. I have only been flying for 40 years.

[CpnCrunch]

GOOD DECISION MAKING > FANCY FLYING

Unfortunately mountain flying training seems to be mostly about fancy flying. I'm not convinced that mountain flying courses are any use whatsoever.

If you're flying recreationally, it's better IMO to just read all you can about mountain flying, and don't try anything stupid (i.e. no fancy flying).

If you're flying commercially in the mountains, you really need to learn gradually how to safely do the 'fancy flying' over a period of years. If you try to just jump into it after a mountain flying course or two, you'll probably end up dead like that poor guy from Kananaskis helicopters.

[dogger7]

Tiny detail I noticed as I read through the TSB report ...

The instructor had accumulated about 1600 hours of flight time ...
The instructor was a senior instructor at the flying school

1600TT is a "senior" instructor?!

+1

[iflyforpie]

Pretty much like I said on the Puppy Mill instructor thread... one can become a Class 2 instructor with as little as three years total flying experience. Nobody is more senior because they've all moved on up the food chain... who can live on an instructor's salary in the Lower Mainland?

[Colonel Sanders]

who can live on an instructor's salary

Hold on a sec. Can't let that one slip by.

The only reason that instructors are paid so poorly,
is because they choose it.

Pilots love to complain about how bad things are - God,
how they love to complain, like a bunch of whiny farmers -
but if you want to know what the problem is, look in the
mirror, I tell them.

If instructors refused to work for less than poverty level
wages, FTU's would have to pay them minimum wage.
Maybe even more.

FTU's have learned to live with higher fuel prices. Higher
insurance. Etc. FTU's can afford to pay instructors minimum
wage, but instructors choose to work for less.

Of course, the reason they work for less, is that most flight
instructors are primarily compensated by the additional
hours in their logbook. They are the problem.

A simple way to solve this problem is to only allow people
to be flight instructors, that don't need any more hours in
their logbook. They aren't going to work for poverty wages,
and as a bonus, they're going to know more about aviation.

I know, I know, fantasy.

But please, flight instructors need to acknowledge that they
are the reason they are paid so poorly. Other skilled trades
organize unions - not to protect themselves from management,
but to protect them from undercutting each other.