How many of you are atheists, agnostic, or religious?

[Randleman]

The Bible, the Koran, whatever... they're fictitious... they're just stories.

Careful with that, while I do not fall for the hocus pocus aspect of these stories there are certain parts that are accepted as fact, especially parts that take place during the 2nd Temple Era, even stories of the ancient Israelite (civilization wise, not theological/miracle wise) I believe were substantiated by archeology.

I think 'based on a true story' is a better phrase.

***

Also in a comical sense, I'd like to offer religion as proof that there is no god. Because if he saw what we were doing to his rules in his name, surely he would have killed us all by now. We've come a long way since Sodom & Gomorrah, no?

And I say he, because if god were female, we would know with certainty. Not necessarily in a good way or a bad way, but we would know.

It depends on how you look at it. The bible says both male and female are made in Gods image...so really, both men and women together are like God.

As far as God not killing everyone on this earth, his judgement will come. Sodom and Gomorrah was well before the time of Jesus. His death and resurrection is what covers us, even when he screws up. And yes, he can handle the crap that is thrown at him. Does he like it? I don't believe so, but he can handle it. However, his judgement will come

[kenco]

I found God:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... 1562475035

Proof: He never spilled a drop!!!

[Invertago]

To all you atheists out there...

[OhKiE DoHkIe]

I remember reading this here in Avcanada:

In the dark ages people are best guided by religion, as in a pitch-black night a blind man is the best guide; he knows the roads and paths better than a man who can see. When daylight comes, however, it is foolish to use blind old men as guides. -Heinrich Heine

One of my most fav quotes as well

BTW people...happy Dead Jesus Day weekend ( I jest)

[Morav]

Every person on earth is born an atheist.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E-_DdX8 ... re=related


Carl Sagan

[Invertago]

Every person on earth is born an atheist.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E-_DdX8 ... re=related


Carl Sagan

Or maybe everyone is born agnostic since the question can't be proved one way or another, then we all just pick what we believe in later in life? Eternal particle or eternal God? Red pill/ Blue Pill.

[Morav]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaO0LNhKcQ

[OhKiE DoHkIe]

To start the discussion of "God" and belief of it, one must start from the beginning. The beginning of civilization. Even before the Egyptians. The first civilization on earth...Sumerians and their text that was translated most famously by Zecharia Sitchin.

If you're at all interested, you'll do your homework like I have for the past year. Although I did it to seek out a deeper understanding, it makes for interesting conversation and interesting theories.

If you're interested, do your home work on some interesting theories;
i) The Annunaki
ii) Sumerian Text
iii) Zecharia Sitchin
iv) The marshlands of Mesopotamia
v) The Nephilim

If your interested and wish to have a fun discussion...look me up.

PS: If we could vote for a God...my vote would go to Dr. Carl Sagan. Until then...my poll vote goes to Atheist:

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan "

Thanks everyone for contributing to this thread.

[Invertago]

OhKiE DoHkIe: In your own words and your own view, what is the meaning to life? If what you see all around you is all that exists, how does that make you feel. I'm honestly curious. Also, when you're on your death bed, what are you going to look back on, and what are you looking forward to? Also, does anything actually matter and if so why?

Just a bunch of honest questions.

[OhKiE DoHkIe]

OhKiE DoHkIe: In your own words and your own view, what is the meaning to life? If what you see all around you is all that exists, how does that make you feel. I'm honestly curious. Also, when you're on your death bed, what are you going to look back on, and what are you looking forward to? Also, does anything actually matter and if so why?

Just a bunch of honest questions.

“Just when I thought I was out....they pull me back in” -Tony Montana

OhKiE DoHkIe: In your own words and your own view, what is the meaning to life?

For the most part, I consider my “views” a compilation and combination of other views from smarter people than I could ever be. The sick irony is that they only come from two sources. Scientists AND comedians. I'm not kidding. Scientists are obviously smart people but comedians dumb it down for the masses, which in my humble opinion makes comedians the smarter breed of people.
Further. The evolution of human thought can’t be successfully accomplished by one person alone. Only on rare occasions does one raise the bar on human intellect. I am not one of those gifted people. However, the following is what I believe and (to me) makes the most sense in the first part of your question.

The understanding of the theory that we are merely a sophisticated form of bacteria but whose mission is no different from mold on a sandwich. To procreate, perpetuate and spread our species. The difference is we feel we have self worth and ownership to this planet because we are at the top of intellectual development. However, really...there IS no difference between bacterial growth and us who will consume its host to its own determent. Mold is to a Wonderbread slice what we are to the planet Earth. We are supposed to @#$! $hit up. That is what we are designed to do until our evolutionary process has come full circle and is complete and we can be phased out of existence. An evolutionary cul-de-sac if you will. I could go on for 18 ½ pages, but I won’t.

OhKiE DoHkIe: If what you see all around you is all that exists, how does that make you feel.

A loaded question with many layers to pick at. Impossible to answer. None of us have the capacity to process the intense levels of an understanding of “all that exists”. I live everyday as if it were my last…and I go up from there.

OhKiE DoHkIe: Also, when you're on your death bed, what are you going to look back on, and what are you looking forward to? Also, does anything actually matter and if so why?

I don’t plan to die in my bed. That’s my plan any way. We have so short a time on this rock that by wasting it is useless energy we have on loan. Everyday for me has been better than the last. Every year is better than the previous. A collection of memories of people, places and exciting events will be the last thing I want to see flash before my eyes before I close them for the last time, forever. Knowing I have lived my borrowed time on this earth giving, helping, and receiving is what only matters to me.
However, it has taken me this long in my journey to realize this AND I’m so glad “I got it” while I still have years of physical ability to (hopefully) do it ALL. Everything matters by which you want it to matter. Chart your own course.

The hardest thing ANYONE can do is to break away from the “march of the minions” which enslaves society in any culture be it religion, political views, perceived social structure. I don’t need to be led. I don't need a visionless leader(s). Whether it be religious, political, or social status.

This may all sound cryptic but given the medium of written words (on a cyber forum) I’ll stop now.

Basically, just act right with everyone by being a kind person to others. Don't slag your co-workers. Don't have disdain for others, whether they've done you worng or not. Instead, look at the beauty around you. Then, you’ll find your own personal God…whatever “energy” that may be.

Now, go have a sandwich

[parallel60]

For most of my life I would disagree with aohkie dohkie, but in the last couple of years I agree. For me, one of the hardest things in my life, growing up as a catholic, was straying away from the church. Don't get me wrong, I really did enjoy the people I met, the positive teachings and the family time. But most of it just didnt make sense to me.

Over the years there have been many times flying at night, where I have looked up at the stars and asked myself, "Seriously? Are those all stars up there? Similar to our sun? What is going on?" And these observations led me into trying to find out the answers. And as I researched more and more, it was making more and more sense to me. Evolution and the Universe. Our solar system, our location in the solar system relative to our sun, at a perfect distance from the sun. I mean, could that just be a coincidence that earth is in the habitable zone of our solar system? Any closer(Venus) and the Earths water would boil away, a large source of our needed oxygen. Any further(Mars) and the water would be frozen, temperatures that we could not survive in. Planets outside of Mars/Venus, are of course even worse. Earth's position just seems odd. Or is it exactly where it is supposed to be to harbor life?

There are so many variables on earth that had to occur in order for life to form. I read somewhere that if the earth's history (4.5 billion years approx.) was broken down into a 24 hr day. Human existence takes place in the 23rd hr and in the 59th minute. So for us, it may seem like nothing has been witnessed because it hasn't really. What possible change could a human that lives for roughly 70 yrs really see in their lifetime? Zip more or less.
When scientists talk about our sun and its lifespan and how eventually it will burn itself out like all stars do. It gets progressively hotter everyday(not by much of course) and gains in size to a point where it will eventually eat into the earth's orbit evapourating all water and eventually destroying the planet and removing all life. Of course, this isn't going to happen in our life time, or in a 1000 generations.

I remember how crushed and let down I was when I started to think that I didnt have a set purpose or meaning for my life. It was very disheartening. And, i really do wish I could feel like that but religion just hasn't done it for me...yet I suppose. All I know is that everytime I see the sun come up and go down, or see a view of the stars at night, its a very humbling, small, and lonely feeling. Reminds me of the movie Contact(book written by Carl Sagan). Quote from it, "In all of our searching, the only thing we've found that makes the emptiness bearable, is eachother." As I gain age this becomes more apparent too me. For years after getting out of high school my mind was on, starting a career, getting a car, getting a house, getting money, getting getting getting, these things that, as time has gone by, mean less and less to me everyday. Not sure if this is the way I'm supposed to be feeling? What are our lives supposed to be about? What should I be doing with my time? Am I doing it? Is it right? I find the thing I look forward to most now, is human interaction, memories of people. If I was to write down the most memorable moments in my life, people would be involved in 98% of them. Is this the right way to live? Anyone? I wish there was a book that explained how it is supposed to be done!! LOL

Really enjoying this thread people, appreciate all of your views thank you.

[Morav]

Invertago, what type of evidence are you looking for?

Evolution has taken place over billions of years. It would be impossible to find every fossil record of every species, because there is an infinitesimal amount. I could show you a fossil of an animal, and then show you a 10000 year old fossil of the same animal that has evolved. However, you could always ask for the fossils in between, and claim that evolution had never happened, because you don't have the fossils (physical evidence) to prove it.

Take a look at these videos explaining the evolution of the eye.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TEKDWAe ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5e2c6ul ... re=related

[PJ1]

This is a really interesting thread to read so far, really enjoy reading every one's view's.
Since starting a family I have begun to really give this topic a lot of thought, before that it was just me me me.

Hope it doesnt get hijacked.

[Rowdy]

I myself view through the eyes of an agnostic. I was born and raised roman catholic but told from a very young age that I could choose whatever I wanted to believe in.

I read through every last single post and "I" have drawn a similar conclusion from all, everyone believes they are right, MOST are trying to convince others of the fact that they are right. The same thing seems to happen in all the organized religions themselves as well.

There is a lot of wrong done by religion but also a lot done right as well. There is no RIGHT answer and there is no Wrong answer. To each his own.

We ALL view the world differently. Time is funny stuff... I personally dont believe it's linear at all. just as an example how does it feel like time happens faster at some points and then at others it appears to drag on and on and on?!? Also notice that time appears to travel faster as we age? It may all be based on perception.

regardless I like to stay open to other ideas, opinion and beliefs. A kudos to everyone for sharing without getting out of hand. Usually discussions like this turn into heated arguments and sometimes wars!!

[Invertago]

Well, as far as evidence, there's tons of it that could be used to support evolution, creationism or pick your cause. Evidence is cheap, I'd want a smoking gun before I would ever think of something as having been proven. I look back at high school math and science, to prove something it had to be observable and repeatable, otherwise all you had was a theory. A theory is basically a belief that something happened and will happen again, but until proven, it remains just a theory. I don't believe you can prove the bible, or that you can prove evolution, but you can base a belief on evidence you see. For me, I look at the world around me and have decided it is too complex to have happened by chance therefore I choose to believe in creative design. I find it easier to accept the concept of an eternal God before time began vs an eternal particle or spark of energy etc that existed before time began. As for the big bang, I'd think of it as God initiated, much like a person lighting a fuse except this would have been a controlled explosion not chaos. Either way, by my own standards of proof, I don't believe anyone could prove or disprove any of the above theories since we as humans are way over our heads in such concepts, kinda like trying to describe a rainbow to a blind man. Basically I believe we can't prove any of the theories, (making me agnostic?) but I choose to believe in a creator (making me religious by most definitions)

I find the idea of proving or disproving God to be rather ridiculous honestly, and on that note, I consider atheism just another religion, aka atheism, monotheism, polytheism (no-God, 1 God, Many Gods). If we could prove/disprove God the same was as we do say gravity, this thread wouldn't be 4 pages long.

[BTD]

Anyone who uses the big bang and start of life to denounce evolution doesn't really understand what evolution is. Evolution says nothing about the beginning of life. It is only a process by which life has grown over the millions of years it has existed.

Even if your argument was that God had to initiate life, that doesn't disprove evolution. To those that say they want to see it happen, then I suppose Dinousaurs didn't exist either because you can't see them alive. The fossil evidence of their existence and carbon dating is irrelevant, cooked, or non-existent.

To each their own, but I'm not sure why people have such a problem with life on Earth being an accident. You make your life what it is, and you give the meaning to it. If you were an accident of nature, or of your parents it is irrelevant now that you are here.

It is my opinion that life on Earth began without a defined purpose, and that makes me feel A-okay.

I also read a book about one possible theory of how life can be initiated, and it was very interesting.

There is no scientific consensus yet on how life began. Only how it changed once it started. That doesn't mean that that problem won't be solved, or that a God automatically fills that role.

As to the comment of a Atheist vs a Monotheist vs Polytheist. The main difference that separates an Atheist, is that it would involve a totally different universe than the other two. And in my opinion a much simpler one.

BTD

[Invertago]

I do believe in natural selection, things die out, but there are too many missing links for me to call my great great great grandfather a fish with stubby legs. I wasn't trying to disprove evolution by association with the big bang theory. They are two separate theories, I've met people who believe God created the universe and started the evolutionary process (their belief not mine)

[Indanao]

Kind of like Philosophy, Religion. Personally, I favour Metaphysical Theory Of Creation, e.g.: everything exists because you believe it exists. In such a scenario, good always triumphs over evil.

[BTD]

I do believe in natural selection, things die out, but there are too many missing links for me to call my great great great grandfather a fish with stubby legs. I wasn't trying to disprove evolution by association with the big bang theory. They are two separate theories, I've met people who believe God created the universe and started the evolutionary process (their belief not mine)

Natural selection is just one part of the Evolutionary process. Another process is gene evolution. Richard Dawkins again has a good book "The Selfish Gene" which covers the evolution of the Gene. From his perspective as an Evolutionary Biologist, not an Atheist. This covers more along the lines of the "fish to person" evolutionary process.

The real issue is when people deny a scientific idea, theory, or fact not because they have proof, evidence, or a logical thought process to counter that idea. But, because it doesn't make them feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I don't know enough about everyone's opinions, but if your reason to stand against evolution is because, you don't want to be "related to a fish" or you feel it takes away from the meaning of your life, you need to look at the bigger picture of your life through your eyes, not through the eyes of someone else or some higher being.

You create your own meaning in life, meaning in life doesn't create you.

BTD

[Invertago]

You create your own meaning in life, meaning in life doesn't create you.

BTD

That actually sounds a little too warm and fuzzy for my taking to be honest.

As for the grandpa stubby leg fish idea, I just don't buy it. Sometimes people assume that if something is branded science it is automatically true, and if something is branded religion is is automatically fairytale.

I'm comfortable believing that science doesn't always have all the answers. If I wanted a warm and fuzzy believe, I'd be an athiest. Atheism has no heaven or hell, no moral convictions, no right or wrong, it concludes that nothing really matters. Talk about freedom and no responsibility. Most major religions have a hell, which may be warm, but sure not fuzzy. Honestly, IMO, atheism seems like escapism, nothing really matters do your own thing nothing to gain nothing to loose. When you die and become fertilizer, you don't even have memories, life could could be the best or the worst vacation you ever had, but the pictures didn't turn out.

[reality check]

You create your own meaning in life, meaning in life doesn't create you.

BTD

I beg to differ, the Meaning of Life had an awful lot to do with my creation. Really.

Meaningoflife.jpg (55.69 KiB) Viewed 1354 times

Ooooooh. You said "in" life. My bad.

[vrrotate]

So I think the poll should be changed to

Atheist
Agnostic
or Theist

[Topspin]

I'm comfortable believing that science doesn't always have all the answers. If I wanted a warm and fuzzy believe, I'd be an athiest. Atheism has no moral convictions, no right or wrong, it concludes that nothing really matters.

?

You're suggesting that those that choose atheism lack moral convictions, perception of right & wrong? One cannot be an atheist, and have a sense of right and wrong?

I tend to take Einstein's position on that:

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.

And what matters is chosen by the individual, not the organization. I bet I can find an awful lot of religious folk who's end game goals do not align with there particular organization.

[BTD]

Sometimes people assume that if something is branded science it is automatically true, and if something is branded religion is is automatically fairytale.

Of course you can believe what you would like. The only reason I joined this debate is because people started discussing Evolution, and it was obvious that what evolution actually is was misunderstood.

Calling something science doesn't make it true. Following the scientific method is our best process to determine with evidence whether something is true or not. The scientific method by definition allows itself to be corrected if it fails its own test.

I'm comfortable believing that science doesn't always have all the answers.

Science doesn't claim to have all the answers. But it does, actively search for them. And over the course of time has explained away many of the unexplainable things many of which had previously been explained by a religious belief.

If I wanted a warm and fuzzy believe, I'd be an athiest. Atheism has no heaven or hell, no moral convictions, no right or wrong, it concludes that nothing really matters.

Of course Atheism itself doesn't have any moral convictions, because atheism is not a collection of of people living by a moral code, looking to a higher being like religion is. An atheist themselves has moral convictions though, as I'm sure you and I would live our live with almost the identical sense of right and wrong. As Dawkins says "if you are not living by all teachings of your holy book, you are picking what you like by some criteria. A criteria you already have, that you and I share." (Paraphrased)

Atheism itself doesn't conclude anything. It is a lack of belief in a higher being due to a lack of evidence. You have concluded that through an Atheists eyes nothing matters. Each individual will find their own meaning in their life.

Talk about freedom and no responsibility. Most major religions have a hell, which may be warm, but sure not fuzzy. Honestly, IMO, atheism seems like escapism, nothing really matters do your own thing nothing to gain nothing to loose.

However, as was said above, if the argument is that religious people have "good" morals because of a fear of hell or not going to heaven, that doesn't make them a good person, it is a method to control the masses.

When you die and become fertilizer, you don't even have memories, life could could be the best or the worst vacation you ever had, but the pictures didn't turn out.

If this is the case it doesn't bother me. It makes my life now no less meaningful. And perhaps more important.

You create your own meaning in life, meaning in life doesn't create you.

BTD

I beg to differ, the Meaning of Life had an awful lot to do with my creation. Really.

Meaningoflife.jpg

Ooooooh. You said "in" life. My bad.

Never got into Meaning of Life. But love "Life of Brian", and "Holy Grail"

BTD

[DeltaHotel]

Invertago wrote:
I'm comfortable believing that science doesn't always have all the answers. If I wanted a warm and fuzzy believe, I'd be an athiest. Atheism has no moral convictions, no right or wrong, it concludes that nothing really matters.

No moral convictions? No right or wrong ?

Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions. (George Bernard)

This attitude of yours is barbaric, over dated and wrong.