Air Canada Interviews

[altiplano]

Other than a freeze on initial equipment for new hires I thought there weren't any freezes with the new contract. Only course rights.

EDIT: I see on the LOU if you bid on same position ie. 767FO to LCC767FO or vice versa you don't use a course right but will be frozen from returning to your previous position for 24 months.

Nothing to stop you from going to a different position though if you have the course right for it.

[planeless]

Is a January ground school confirmed yet?

[Flyinghunter27]

Hey guys, Anybody getting called for a medical that interviewed at the beginning or middle of september??? I had references called at 2.5 weeks and this tuesday will be 8 weeks and havent heard anything.

Thanks for any insight

[Flap_Operator]

Heard a recent groundschool was announced... Either started recently or willl start ... Before 2013 for sure

[Flap_Operator]

I have a bud in that g/s ... They were told it was the last batch of pilots hited on for AC "legacy" ... From now on next hires are going to be sent over to AC "lowcost carrier" maybe just a rumour... But the source seemed very liable

[homer85]

The Nov GS is about to start (12th). Next one will most likely be in January. The next equipment bid will show the vacancies/requirements for LCC.

[mogas]

The Nov GS is about to start (12th). Next one will most likely be in January. The next equipment bid will show the vacancies/requirements for LCC.

When will the next equipment bid come out?

Are new hires expected to go LCC or mainline as well?

[Fanblade]

When will the next equipment bid come out?

End of November or beginning of December.

Are new hires expected to go LCC or mainline as well?

Current pilots bid on the spots. Positions which are left over are assigned to new hires. Assuming that no new hire from here on out will go to mainline, also assumes no mainline FO will take a CA spot at the LCC. I doubt it.

Remember. The LCC will be a wholly owned subsidiary of AC. If you go there you remain an ACPA pilot but you are no longer an AC employee. You are an employee of the LCC. You can move back and forth. However if the LLC fails or is sold all bets are off.

The key to remember is that you are not an AC employee if working for the LCC. Ask an Aveos employee how it worked for them. 20 year former AC employees on the street with no recourse to a job at AC.

[mogas]

Thanks Fanblade for the explanation.

What are the pros and cons of working for the LCC?

Do you foresee a success in the LCC and a benefit to AC or is it gonna end up like a Zip situation?

Can someone confirm my calculations...
$46.94 x 77.5 hrs = $3637.85 per month/$43654.20 per year for a first year LCC FO

$182.30 x 77.5 hrs = $14128.25 per month/$169539 per year for a 12th year LCC B767 Capt

Do LCC pilots receive mileage, weight, overseas, and nav pay?

Thanks to all. I'm just confused and I'm trying to make sense of it all.

[DBC]

I feel that moving to the LCC is a very risky move with the current contract language, as Fanblade says you are technically not an Air Canada employee when working there, you are just an ACPA pilot.

The potential positives are that your schedule/vacation will not be seniority driven, upgrades/positions out of seniority, and the potential for more money if you are an overtime hog.

There is no mileage, weight, overseas, and nav pay at the LCC, just the hourly rate.

As to if it will be a benefit to AC itself, I expect that all the Aircraft leases and subcontracted costs will be done at a very 'favorable' rate, subsidizing the LCC through the mainline. Accountants can be amazingly creative.

[mogas]

Thanks. I assume when once being employed by the LCC, the pilot does not refer to himself as an Air Canada pilot but "the leisure carrier/Rouge" pilot. For example when banks/credit card companies/insurance etc. asks Who is your employer, would one state Air Canada or "Rouge"?

[jazzbeat]

Regarding the Aveos story:

When Aveos was sold each employee was asked if they wanted to stay with AC or go with Aveos.

The one That took the Aveos bet or the one That didn't have the seniority to hold any thing at AC got stock in the sinking ship.

So if the story is the same, they sell AC Rouge in 5 years, you Will not get sold with them but asked where you want to go...!!!

[anonymity]

Yes, but they didn't make it an easy choice, you choose AC, you likely face lay off. The same will play out in the "Rouge" situation, if it comes to that.

[jazzbeat]

Main thing is if you are not ready to get screwed, get away from aviation and even more from Air Canada.

Air Canada have been treating the employees as enemies for the last 11 years and there no sign it Will change any Time soon

[The Raven]

Main thing is if you are not ready to get screwed, get away from aviation and even more from Air Canada.

Air Canada have been treating the employees as enemies for the last 11 years and there no sign it Will change any Time soon

On the other hand, I was hired by Air Canada over 30 years ago. At the time everyone told me not to fly for Air Canada. They said I would have a better career with Wardair or CP Air. I am now approaching retirement and can honestly say that over the past 30+ years Air Canada has never missed a pay cheque, my working conditions are essentially the same as when I was hired, and I will shortly be receiving a pension of over $120,000 a year. Not only that, but I've only worked 2 Christmas' in my career and when my wife was seriously ill all her medical bills were paid by Air Canada benefits.

[Jimmy_Hoffa]

Main thing is if you are not ready to get screwed, get away from aviation and even more from Air Canada.

Air Canada have been treating the employees as enemies for the last 11 years and there no sign it Will change any Time soon

On the other hand, I was hired by Air Canada over 30 years ago. At the time everyone told me not to fly for Air Canada. They said I would have a better career with Wardair or CP Air. I am now approaching retirement and can honestly say that over the past 30+ years Air Canada has never missed a pay cheque, my working conditions are essentially the same as when I was hired, and I will shortly be receiving a pension of over $120,000 a year. Not only that, but I've only worked 2 Christmas' in my career and when my wife was seriously ill all her medical bills were paid by Air Canada benefits.

Think you would have just as much luck starting that 30+ year career two days ago? It's a genuine question, not meant in any condescending way. You have been around to see the aviation industry evolve into where it is today. Just looking for a frank answer.

Cheers

[Fanblade]

Regarding the Aveos story:

When Aveos was sold each employee was asked if they wanted to stay with AC or go with Aveos.

The one That took the Aveos bet or the one That didn't have the seniority to hold any thing at AC got stock in the sinking ship.

So if the story is the same, they sell AC Rouge in 5 years, you Will not get sold with them but asked where you want to go...!!!

Not quite. The labor board intervened and forced AC to allow Aveos employees the choice. AC just wanted to sever ties with the former AC employees. The board intervened because the employees at that point had never been given the choice. Their only choice had been to take a job at AC. This provided loose ends that the labor board acted on.

We are different. One you would be choosing to go for the most part. And two the real kicker........our contract states you are an employee of the LCC on the first day of ground school.

No loose ends this time.

Choosing to go is a balance of risk and reward. Just make sure you understand the risk.

I would in no way assume a return to mainline is guaranteed if the LCC failed or was sold.

[The Raven]

While there are no guarantees what the future will bring, if I were a young pilot I would jump at the chance to fly at Air Canada.

Here is what I was looking at when I joined Air Canada:

1...Wardair was the darling of the aviation industry. Everyone said join "Wardair". I'm glad I didn't listen.

2...My starting salary at Air Canada was $14000/year. I was on flat salary for 4 years.

3...I was flying overseas right away as a Second Officer. If you join Air Canada now, you can be an RP and do overseas flights.

4...I starting contributing to a pension plan from day one. If I joined another airline with no pension and had to rely on my investments to fund my retirement I would probably be eating cat food when I retire. As it is, I should have a comfortable retirement ($120,000) and not have to rely on my kids for support.

5...Great dental and medical benefits right off the bat. Over the last few years I have used them to the max.

6...After the first few years I was able to pick and choose what aircraft I flew. I decided to stay senior on many aircraft in order to get the best choice of flying, vacation, etc. That was my choice. Others might have flown bigger aircraft to maximize their pay. I chose lifestyle over pay.

7...When you set the parking brake no one bothers you at home on your days off.

8...I've flown a nice variety of aircraft (DC-8, 727, L1011, 747 Classic, 747-400, 767, both Airbuses).

9...I've seen the world when I wanted (when I was young). Now I prefer to stay closer to home.

Anyone starting at Air Canada today certainly won't have exactly the same career as I've had. Having said that, they can expect to be paid every month, go to interesting places, have good benefit plans, plan a vacation, and if they decide to use seniority to their advantage after a few years they will be able to maximize their days off and enjoy life. It's not unlike my career progression.

[mogas]

For the interest of job security assuming that the choices are available, would it be wiser to go mainline RP than LCC FO?

[The Raven]

For the interest of job security assuming that the choices are available, would it be wiser to go mainline RP than LCC FO?

I don't think it matters. I believe it will still be one seniority list. In other words in the event of a furlough, it will be the most junior pilots in the system that go first.

Air Canada has always tried to mitigate lay-offs as much as possible. In my 30+ years they have only furloughed a couple of times.

[Fanblade]

For the interest of job security assuming that the choices are available, would it be wiser to go mainline RP than LCC FO?

I don't think it matters. I believe it will still be one seniority list. In other words in the event of a furlough, it will be the most junior pilots in the system that go first.

Air Canada has always tried to mitigate lay-offs as much as possible. In my 30+ years they have only furloughed a couple of times.

As Raven said.

Risk is only inherent if the LCC either fails, or is sold.

As long as the LCC remains small it won't we worth selling or cost much to fold back into mainline just like ZIP.

The danger comes with size. With size reintegration becomes expensive.

Since the LCC is starting with only 4 fins, risk to start with is small. So where a new hire goes now has little relevance.

Down the road with 50 fins and 700 pilots flying a different type than at mainline (assumes 320 replaced with max or neo)? Risk dramatically increases if failure or a sale takes place since the cost of reintegration becomes prohibitive.

[Fanblade]

4...I starting contributing to a pension plan from day one. If I joined another airline with no pension and had to rely on my investments to fund my retirement I would probably be eating cat food when I retire. As it is, I should have a comfortable retirement ($120,000) and not have to rely on my kids for support.

New hire pilots don't get a defined pension plan. We are the only Air Canada employee group not to at the very least have a hybrid pension plan for new hires.

That's right. Today if you want a decent pension? Become an FA, gate agent or baggage smasher. Not a pilot.

[whiteguy]

4...I starting contributing to a pension plan from day one. If I joined another airline with no pension and had to rely on my investments to fund my retirement I would probably be eating cat food when I retire. As it is, I should have a comfortable retirement ($120,000) and not have to rely on my kids for support.

New hire pilots don't get a defined pension plan. We are the only Air Canada employee group not to at the very least have a hybrid pension plan for new hires.

That's right. Today if you want a decent pension? Become an FA, gate agent or baggage smasher. Not a pilot.

Pretty sure all new hires in those work groups are going to the same new pension plan as new hire pilots!

[Fanblade]

Nope. Other groups got a hybrid plan. The precident set by the CAW. The initial group into arbitration.

http://www.caw.ca/en/10611.htm

Only pilots got a full DC pension.

One needs to realize that the most punitive back to work legislation the PC government drafted was not against a striking union. It was against a locked out union.

As Stanley said in his arbitration. The wording, which he weighed heavily, directed him to give the company what it wanted. He did. The company took full advantage.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2 ... -cost.html

"Now those are behind us and for the most part those contracts are fair and provide us lots of flexibility, especially the ACPA contract (with pilots). We are taking full advantage of that as a management group to drive value over the next couple of years."

No matter who everyone wants to blame for the outcome. There is certainly lots of blame to go around. You can't loose sight of the fact that this government chose to collude with a private company to hammer an employee group. They tailored legislation to make it happen even when the group refused to strike.

The fact that pilots did worse than any other group is no coincidence. It was designed.

[whiteguy]

I did not realize that, thanks.